Should I switch to sterile?

Lynch_Ironside · Aug 23, 2021

I shouldn’t have smoked before posting this… feeling like my ability to articulate my thoughts is a bit hindered but we’ll give it a go.
this is my first rdwc / fourth dwc grow
I’m running a total of 30 gal / 3 totes
A couple weeks ago I had an algae/ bacteria bloom, brown slime. I believe it was due to light leaks, I couldn’t have kicked myself harder as I’ve dealt with this before and knew the importance of light proofing.
After I was finished beating myself up I followed aquamans cure for root rot thread and it was a chore to say the least. It was an all day event or seemed like it anyway.

Now in the process of pulling my plants and trying to shimmy the slimy air stones through the roots without causing damage I failed miserably and know I broke a ton of roots.
as I rinsed them in the sink I was able to pull off some of the broken bits but it was extremely hard to tell what was broken and what wasn’t.
now I could do this whole process again but honestly I don’t want to, I’ve got everything tied down and now the plants are bigger it will be even more of a pain in the ass. Also, unless I turn into Edward scissorhands and hack away at the roots I don’t think I’ll be able to get all the dead matter out of there.
so to the point of this thread and question…
I’m experiencing huge massive gigantic ph fluctuations. 6.5 to 4.7 in 16 hours.
now I know ideally I should be 5.4 to 5.8 and 5.5 to 6.5 is acceptable, yesterday I did a complete res change after noticing the drop to high 4’s. After the change it was sitting at 6.5 , this morning back to 4.7 ppm went from 750 to 770. I’m thinking I have dead roots floating around or more likely tangled up in there. Bb southern ag and enzymes don’t seem to be enough and the enzymes are expensive, 36 usd for a liter. I’m waiting on my ro water to finish and plan on doing another res change today. I’m going to max out the enzymes and double up the bb but I don’t have much hope for that to work.
GET TO THE POINT!!!
Ok so would switching to a sterile stop the decaying matter/ kill the bad bacteria that’s causing these fluctuations?

Lynch_Ironside · Aug 24, 2021

So I was thinking about running some bleach through the system for 10 minutes, draining and refilling with nutrient water. I know there will be residual bleach left but it should dissipate within 24 hours right? Then add back the bennies and enzymes.
also I just ordered uv sterilizer for aquariums but was wondering if anyone knew about the role bb plays in breaking down nitrogen? Just want to double check something I read,
Quote from another forum :
“but it's worth noting that nearly every base nutrient in the game bar a few contain ammonium nitrate which needs a nitrogen fixating bacteria to break it down. In a sterile system this will cause a large portion of nitrogen to be unavailable to the plant.”
Is this true?

Cashmeh · Aug 25, 2021

Whats your res temps? I would say your creating more fungus than your killing atm. If you switch to sterile, you will need a chiller or you will be non stop adding chemicals. Step one before going sterile, is to be able to control your fungi growth.

If you want to stay with your live environment use more microbs lol. . . lots more. And fix light leaks and res temps.
I would wrap those totes in mylar too and work on bringing res temps up. That black tote will absorb all the heat in the room.

So yes, if your having problems with fungi bloom in live, you will have the same issue in sterile. I am using only hydroguard, flora trio, calmag, and my last reschange was 29 days ago. My roots have never been better either. Its wild, and im not using enzymes.

Lynch_Ironside · Aug 25, 2021

Cashmeh said:
Whats your res temps? I would say your creating more fungus than your killing atm. If you switch to sterile, you will need a chiller or you will be non stop adding chemicals. Step one before going sterile, is to be able to control your fungi growth.

If you want to stay with your live environment use more microbs lol. . . lots more. And fix light leaks and res temps.
I would wrap those totes in mylar too and work on bringing res temps up. That black tote will absorb all the heat in the room.

So yes, if your having problems with fungi bloom in live, you will have the same issue in sterile. I am using only hydroguard, flora trio, calmag, and my last reschange was 29 days ago. My roots have never been better either. Its wild, and im not using enzymes.

Hey man thanks for the reply. I have my res on the concrete floor of my basement. Temps stay pretty consistent at 70-71f max. And running leds with very decent air exchange internal temps of tent are 75 ish max.
I would have to 100% agree with you I’ve been contributing to the problem with the addition of organic compounds that are unnecessary.
I prefer a live system, having said that I don’t think the bb and enzymes will be able to combat this outbreak as quickly as switching to sterile.
i ran a dwc 2 grows ago and never change the water, not once and had very decent results. Also I didn’t have light leaks on that grow and ran southern ag and hygrozyme.
so you don’t think a flip to sterile, even if it’s just a week or two will fix the issue? I was kinda hoping I could run sterile for a week or so and then switch back to live after killing off the diatoms or algae or whatever.
I looked everywhere for hth pool shock, went to 2 pool supply stores Walmart Lowe’s and menards. I bought some other shock and would assume it’s the same as hth but I’ve only seen mention of hth. Trying to find the ingredients on both to compare.
If I do stick with live how much more should I add? Double triple? I did another res change this am and planned on putting some shock in but now I’m hesitant. I don’t really have much hope for these girls and now it’s a matter of pride, I want to beat this thing!
also I canceled that uv as I’ve read that it can lead to deficiency issues with micro nutrients.

smokedareefer · Aug 25, 2021

Ph crash is something that happens to me almost like clockwork starting in about week 5. I've never witnessed it in veg.

Just wanted to throw this out there

Lynch_Ironside · Aug 25, 2021

smokedareefer said:
Ph crash is something that happens to me almost like clockwork starting in about week 5. I've never witnessed it in veg.

Just wanted to throw this out there View attachment 1161468 View attachment 1161475

Thanks for the reply, I think I have plenty of air flow/ water movement. I’m running an alita 40, this thing can really push some air believe me.

smokedareefer · Aug 25, 2021

Lynch_Ironside said:
Thanks for the reply, I think I have plenty of air flow/ water movement. I’m running an alita 40, this thing can really push some air believe me.

Missing the point here. Full on your alita pump (same as mine) is pushing too much air

Re: +30 = excessive

Lynch_Ironside · Aug 25, 2021

smokedareefer said:
Missing the point here. Full on your alita pump (same as mine) is pushing too much air

Re: +30 = excessive

I gotcha now, i don’t run it full blast, I did that on my first dwc. I thought more was better, opened it up all the way with just 2 air stones everything else closed off, checked it an hour later and the plants looked extremely unhappy I’m surprised I didn’t snap the roots off of em. I’ve got a 16 port manifold on there now, I run everything around half open and have 3 lines running to nothing. I have 2 stones that I can see one in the external res and one in my holding tank for ro which allows me to gauge the amount of agitation.

Cashmeh · Aug 25, 2021

Imma help you figure this shit out, or at least understand it.

Hows your filter, what kind is it, how often are you massaging your roots and cleaning your filter. As for the breaking off, no worries, ur hydro, and as you can tell, as long as you stay on top of it, it can be chaotic below, but perfect up top, as long as you stay on top of it, which you obv have been lol, but im sure you hate it, as I would.

How submerged are your roots? I keep mine fully when fighting root rot. As for the ph swings, you massaging your roots is causing them to die, clog your filter, and create a perfect home for your colony to munch on, with the dead roots there. So they keep expulsing amonia, your microbs, and since your ph is dropping constantly, they are loving life in your res. Yet with all the floating mass for them to eat on, they have no reason to munch on your roots. So keep that water filtered perfect, like a sponge filter or something and then keep them submerged.

As for the res changes to fix root rot while massaging, i never did lol. My roots turned black on my last grow, legit black at one point, it had massive damage up top too. All i did was massage them and double up on hydroguard. Yet after ever massage I would walk away for 30 min, then come back and clean filter, but how i cleaned it was crucial. I actually pulled the pump out of the water, and took the filter off outside the rres so that none would run down into it. My filter, when i was combating root rot was black when i rinsed it, twice a day, for 5 days. . but. . but. .i never dumped my solution. I always cleaned the filter 30 min after i was done massaging, that way it caught everything. Anyways I hope you can pull some usefull info out of all this.

A

Cashmeh · Aug 26, 2021

I also misspoke, the microbes do not emit ammonia, they emit something else that lowers the ph. I'm still confused on that part. I just know a large colony will lower your ph. And they thive in sponge like environments. Which is why I keep my rockwool submerged, I want them to live there lol..

Anyways I am not the best at explain it.. But I think I understand

Lynch_Ironside · Aug 28, 2021

Cashmeh said:
Imma help you figure this shit out, or at least understand it.

Hows your filter, what kind is it, how often are you massaging your roots and cleaning your filter. As for the breaking off, no worries, ur hydro, and as you can tell, as long as you stay on top of it, it can be chaotic below, but perfect up top, as long as you stay on top of it, which you obv have been lol, but im sure you hate it, as I would.

How submerged are your roots? I keep mine fully when fighting root rot. As for the ph swings, you massaging your roots is causing them to die, clog your filter, and create a perfect home for your colony to munch on, with the dead roots there. So they keep expulsing amonia, your microbs, and since your ph is dropping constantly, they are loving life in your res. Yet with all the floating mass for them to eat on, they have no reason to munch on your roots. So keep that water filtered perfect, like a sponge filter or something and then keep them submerged.

As for the res changes to fix root rot while massaging, i never did lol. My roots turned black on my last grow, legit black at one point, it had massive damage up top too. All i did was massage them and double up on hydroguard. Yet after ever massage I would walk away for 30 min, then come back and clean filter, but how i cleaned it was crucial. I actually pulled the pump out of the water, and took the filter off outside the rres so that none would run down into it. My filter, when i was combating root rot was black when i rinsed it, twice a day, for 5 days. . but. . but. .i never dumped my solution. I always cleaned the filter 30 min after i was done massaging, that way it caught everything. Anyways I hope you can pull some usefull info out of all this.

A

I don’t have the time or patience to pull the plants every few days and massage their roots. After doing it once I had to go get a massage myself as my back was in crippling pain lol
Check on the sponge filter. I haven’t rinsed it out, but I will the next water change.

I ran .5ml per gal of bleach through the system for a couple of hours. The plants absolutely hated it. Rinsed the res out twice and refilled with double the amount of recommended bb and 7.5 ml per gallon of enzymes. Ph has stabilized holding steady around 6.1 -6.3 we’ll see how they do in the coming week. I think I may have gotten it under control. Thanks for your help cash! I’ll post some updates next week

smokedareefer · Aug 28, 2021

Lynch_Ironside said:
I don’t have the time or patience to pull the plants every few days and massage their roots. After doing it once I had to go get a massage myself as my back was in crippling pain lol
Check on the sponge filter. I haven’t rinsed it out, but I will the next water change.

I ran .5ml per gal of bleach through the system for a couple of hours. The plants absolutely hated it. Rinsed the res out twice and refilled with double the amount of recommended bb and 7.5 ml per gallon of enzymes. Ph has stabilized holding steady around 6.1 -6.3 we’ll see how they do in the coming week. I think I may have gotten it under control. Thanks for your help cash! I’ll post some updates next week

How did you decide on the. 5 ml of bleach to add?

FourPlants · Aug 28, 2021

I run H202 only and don’t seem to be having too many issues.

35% food grade H202

Cashmeh · Aug 28, 2021

smokedareefer said:
How did you decide on the. 5 ml of bleach to add?

Our phones have the same keyboard lol.

.5ml is what I will try to type.. Watch

I'm wondering how he decided on the. 5 ml of bleach too. And no, it won't let me

Type.

.5 lol.. It has to be on a separate line. Did I mentioned im really high right now. Stupid fucking keyboards

Cashmeh · Aug 28, 2021

Question for those educated more than I, what would a uv light do to roots, if it were in pots on a sterile system. So a system like mine, with no res, but just add a uv light inside instead of hydroguard. Light leaks increase fungus growth due photosynthesis. Yet what impact would uv have on my roots? So a lfijt submerged under the roots, only uv, and lots of it..

Lynch_Ironside · Aug 28, 2021

Cashmeh said:
Question for those educated more than I, what would a uv light do to roots, if it were in pots on a sterile system. So a system like mine, with no res, but just add a uv light inside instead of hydroguard. Light leaks increase fungus growth due photosynthesis. Yet what impact would uv have on my roots? So a lfijt submerged under the roots, only uv, and lots of it..

The .5 ml per gallon I kinda just guessed. I saw some people say 1ml per gal and that seemed like a lot so I cut it in half to be safe. You can see how pissed the plants were after a couple hours of it running.

as far as Uv goes I looked into that too. So there where a couple of drawbacks I found and this could be wrong as it’s second hand info but first was that the uv wouldn’t have much effect on root rot due to the slime sticking to the roots and not running through the uv light. I’m sure if you put the light directly in the res the roots wouldn’t like it but that’s just my guess. The second drawback I came across is that the uv breaks down certain trace elements and can cause deficiencies in the plants. I had one order then canceled it.

finally got everything for my Dutch bucket set up, hopefully will get that set up tomorrow, I’ll share some pics when I’m done. I was hoping to take clones from this tent with all the problems but I think I’m just gonna pop some new seeds.

Lynch_Ironside · Aug 28, 2021

lol forgot the pics. And now I can’t find them. I’ll look tomorrow

ComfortablyNumb · Aug 28, 2021

Cashmeh said:
Whats your res temps? I would say your creating more fungus than your killing atm. If you switch to sterile, you will need a chiller or you will be non stop adding chemicals. Step one before going sterile, is to be able to control your fungi growth.

If you want to stay with your live environment use more microbs lol. . . lots more. And fix light leaks and res temps.
I would wrap those totes in mylar too and work on bringing res temps up. That black tote will absorb all the heat in the room.

So yes, if your having problems with fungi bloom in live, you will have the same issue in sterile. I am using only hydroguard, flora trio, calmag, and my last reschange was 29 days ago. My roots have never been better either. Its wild, and im not using enzymes.

Recharge IS enzymes....
I wish I could say, do this or do that, but at the point your at, I would just pull each plant, flush the roots to clear and repot in new media.

Lynch_Ironside · Aug 28, 2021

ComfortablyNumb said:
Recharge IS enzymes....
I wish I could say, do this or do that, but at the point your at, I would just pull each plant, flush the roots to clear and repot in new media.

I ordered some pond zyme, the cost of hygrozyme is kinda nuts. Halfway through my third bottle for this grow alone at 40 a bottle. I have done a ton of water changes though. I guess pondzyme does the same thing as hygrozyme and it’s in powdered form so half a teaspoon treats 50 gallons. Oh and an 8oz sizes is like 15 bucks

I was trying to avoid pulling the plants again, I did that once before and it was an absolute nightmare, had to transport the plants to the sink upstairs because I don’t have one in the basement, set up a temporary res and all that while I cleaned the three reservoirs I did all that but it came back with a vengeance which I think was 100. % my fault. I was running these extra additives that I didn’t need and feeding the outbreak. Now I’m down to just the trio and calmag. I ordered some 2 part maxigrow and bloom. I should’ve been using powder along time ago. So once that arrives I’m going to switch over to that…. We’ll maybe Ill use up what I got then switch.
Now that the ph has stabilized I’m a little more at ease. I think it would still be crashing if it was still multiplying. I’m hoping the bleach took care of it, and also hoping I’ve got enough bb and enzymes in there to at least keep it at bay until harvest.

ComfortablyNumb · Aug 28, 2021

Lynch_Ironside said:
I ordered some pond zyme, the cost of hygrozyme is kinda nuts. Halfway through my third bottle for this grow alone at 40 a bottle. I have done a ton of water changes though. I guess pondzyme does the same thing as hygrozyme and it’s in powdered form so half a teaspoon treats 50 gallons. Oh and an 8oz sizes is like 15 bucks

I was trying to avoid pulling the plants again, I did that once before and it was an absolute nightmare, had to transport the plants to the sink upstairs because I don’t have one in the basement, set up a temporary res and all that while I cleaned the three reservoirs I did all that but it came back with a vengeance which I think was 100. % my fault. I was running these extra additives that I didn’t need and feeding the outbreak. Now I’m down to just the trio and calmag. I ordered some 2 part maxigrow and bloom. I should’ve been using powder along time ago. So once that arrives I’m going to switch over to that…. We’ll maybe Ill use up what I got then switch.
Now that the ph has stabilized I’m a little more at ease. I think it would still be crashing if it was still multiplying. I’m hoping the bleach took care of it, and also hoping I’ve got enough bb and enzymes in there to at least keep it at bay until harvest.

The bleach may have done the trick. Hopefully you come sliding home with a solid hit.

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