Should I trim low laying branches?

[cruzin]

I’ve got lots of low laying branches on my 3 foot tall bushy plants. Should I keep them till they start to flower?

 

[Jimster]

Yes. Leaves make the energy for the plant, and removing them will affect the plant's growth, although it might not be too noticeable. Taking the lower branches off during flowering is a practice that some believe makes the remaining buds stronger, almost as if the lower branches are keeping the upper branches and buds from growing as much. I don't really know if this is true or not, although a lot of plants have their bottom branches/leaves turn yellow and fall off during flowering. Plants store nutrients and energy in the leaves, and when they need them during flowering, this is where they pull them from. If the branches aren't there, then the plant either needs to find an alternate source or not be quite as robust.
I think it is also a matter of individual growing styles, since a plant that grows taller and spreads out more will have more robust lower branches than a plant who's cnopy covers most of the leaves. A plant will grow based on available nutrients and light. If there are nutrients available, and the leaf/branch can get light, it will grow. Leaves and branches don't grow if they can't get the light. Any growth of lower branches is using this excess light and nutrients to benefit the whole plant, although most of the growth stays in the local general area.
So... In MY opinion, I'd leave the lower branches on at least until you begin flowering. This is just the way I have grown for years, and I'm not claiming that this is the best or only way to go. Every grow and grower is different. Success comes from experience, and every step you make increases that experience. Good luck and keep up the good work!

 

[BigCube]

Removing growth from a plant is one of those things. You do t have to do it, but if you do and do it right, you get way more yield out of your plant.

I personally dont like to do major trims through veg, with one exception.
I like to give my plant a massive trimming right before it starts to flower. I cut away all lower growth, and anything that looks like it it would only grow fluff.

Then I only take a few leaves here and there as needed till it's time to flush. Once I flush, the flowers are pretty much done growing, I like to give it one more massive trim right before I flush and I lower the temps a bit so the last week or two of the plants life, its tightening up the flowers and allowing all the plants resources go to the flowers.

You can grow good cannabis if you never even trim one leaf, but you will grow more cannabis if you trim the right ones.

 

[cruzin]

Sounds like indoor as your controlling the temps. These are outdoor. I guess Ill leave it on till they start to flower. thanks

 

[BigCube]

Indoor or outdoor. Since what we are doing indoor is reproducing the outdoor environment, it equally applies to outdoor.

 

[OldManRiver]

Indoor or outdoor. Since what we are doing indoor is reproducing the outdoor environment, it equally applies to outdoor.

I would be curious to understand your argument from a thermodynamics standpoint.

1) plants capture solar energy through leaves/photosynthesis
2) you suggest removing leaves provides more energy to the plant

This is like saying that a flashlight can produce more light if you remove one of the batteries.

 

[BigCube]

I would be curious to understand your argument from a thermodynamics standpoint.

1) plants capture solar energy through leaves/photosynthesis
2) you suggest removing leaves provides more energy to the plant

This is like saying that a flashlight can produce more light if you remove one of the batteries.

I never said that?

 

[OldManRiver]

I never said that?

You said, "allowing all the plants resources go to the flowers." Where do you think those come from?

 

[BigCube]

You said, "allowing all the plants resources go to the flowers." Where do you think those come from?

I'm not following man... first of all, your analogy is massively flawed. If you want to keep the flashlight analogy (not a good one) it's more like having a solar powered flashlight, that has one battery and 100 bulbs. Removing a few of the bulbs will definitely make the others brighter.

Regardless. I think you're just looking for things to complain about. You've somehow managed to take something I said, and turn it in to something I never said.

I never said anything about removing all the leaves. Are you just looking for something to disagree with? To the point where you obviously put words in my mouth?

It's almost like you've never grown before? Have you never removed leaves from a plant? Do you understand that removing some growth increases your yield and allow the light and nutrients go to the areas you didn't cut off?

Nothing I've said is controversial, it's common practice, and I could point you to hundreds of other people saying the exact same thing. Maybe go put words in their mouths?

 

[Migrower]

If you let limbs grow out that you do not plan on flowering you are wasting energy that can be used to grow the parts of the plant that you are training to be the canopy. Now since you are outdoors with natural sunlight the penetration down through the plant will be greater than indoors(12-24 in. Light dependent) In saying that you should still be trimming off low branches that will not reach your canopy or close. This is if you want quality and size in your flowers .Some grow for all extracts so the flowers aren’t going to be smoked themselves so techniques may differ like light trimming and opening the plant up majorly for light penetration. Either way you want to direct you plants energy to where you want it to go. Remember trimming your plants also produces vigorous growth. You must find a balance as in everything in life.

 

[BigCube]

Are you saying that if you remove the branches and leaves that aren't going to produce, the plant will give those saved resources to the growth you left behind?

Sounds familiar lol.

 

[Migrower]

So here are some examples. The pics are of limbs I’ve taken off and of one that was almost long enough to reach canopy but not quite so I left it to see. You can clearly see the difference in flowers. The only difference is one is not getting the light the other one is that’s on the canopy. I should have taken it off but now I’m in week 5 and I should have done it week 2 when I was skeptical. But being my first cannabis grow I wanted to experiment so I would know for next run. Well now I do and I won’t be leaving on any lower branches that won’t be canopy level. I’m already training all my ones in veg. So no energy is wasted growing limbs I’m only going to take off. Waste of energy!

 

[Migrower]

Obviously you can see the limb should have come off. The flower it’s growing is far inferior to the flowers 8 inches above in the canopy. But see you live and you learn.!!!

 

[OldManRiver]

I'm not following man... first of all, your analogy is massively flawed. If you want to keep the flashlight analogy (not a good one) it's more like having a solar powered flashlight, that has one battery and 100 bulbs. Removing a few of the bulbs will definitely make the others brighter.

Regardless. I think you're just looking for things to complain about. You've somehow managed to take something I said, and turn it in to something I never said.

I never said anything about removing all the leaves. Are you just looking for something to disagree with? To the point where you obviously put words in my mouth?

It's almost like you've never grown before? Have you never removed leaves from a plant? Do you understand that removing some growth increases your yield and allow the light and nutrients go to the areas you didn't cut off?

Nothing I've said is controversial, it's common practice, and I could point you to hundreds of other people saying the exact same thing. Maybe go put words in their mouths?

I quoted your words. If you think leaves consume energy, we're not operating on the same fact base. There is a lot of stuff in pot growing that is common practice that is absolutely ignorant; coconut water, molasses, organic nutes for 'flavor', flushing, to name a few. Science doesn't support these, yet hundreds of growers believe fervently in them, despite immense evidence that these beliefs are BS. I believe defoliation is one of these.

No, I do not understand that "removing some growth increases your yield". I think saying that "light and nutrients go to the areas you didn't cut off" is fundamentally ignorant of the mechanisms by which plants consume nutrients. You seem to think that fertilizer is food for the plant, and that leaves consume scarce energy. This is ignorant of basic plant metabolism.

I have grown for quite a while, quite successfully. See the links below. There may be something to defoliation, indoors, for light penetration. Outdoors, this makes no sense. Light is not scarce, and nutrients can be abundantly supplied. There is no scarcity to remedy. From a thermodynamic standpoint, your rationale is not supported by what we know about how plants grow. It is mathematically impossible for less leaf area to produce more plant mass. There may be some behavior around bud shape, certainly there is less larf. But photons striking leaves is where plant energy comes from. If you think that leaves consume energy, you might want to read about how photosynthesis works.

I am going to do an experiment with a couple plants this summer to test. I have my thoughts, but I'll do the experiment. It's possible that the mass of accumulated science is wrong.

 

[Migrower]

I’ve only grown cannabis for one run. So by far no cannabis expert. I do however have a degree in horticulture and I can tell you from years of experience that training and defoliation techniques are very proven . For instance a simple tomato plant. You will by far get greater yields and quality of fruit if you cut off the first flower blossoms that you see in order to let the plant grow larger in its vegetative growth stage.you initially stall it. This defoliation is a example of how training techniques can improve harvests. There are many more examples. Pumpkins, melon, squash, orchard trees.

 

[OldManRiver]

I’ve only grown cannabis for one run. So by far no cannabis expert. I do however have a degree in horticulture and I can tell you from years of experience that training and defoliation techniques are very proven . For instance a simple tomato plant. You will by far get greater yields and quality of fruit if you cut off the first flower blossoms that you see in order to let the plant grow larger in its vegetative growth stage.you initially stall it. This defoliation is a example of how training techniques can improve harvests. There are many more examples. Pumpkins, melon, squash, orchard trees.

Well, cutting off flowers on tomatoes has a specific hormonal effect, that, as you note, causes the plant to invest more into leaf growth. That increased leaf growth supports more and larger fruit.

Please explain how this translates to cannabis, where the recommendation is to reduce leaf area to create more and larger fruit.

 

[Migrower]

By removing leaves you promote more vigorous growth. I’ve only grown cannabis like I said one run. And in that one run I noticed how much vigorously my plants grew after I trimmed off leaves for various reasons. The canopy getting to thick so lower branches I did want to grow were not getting enough light. The plain crowding of leaves getting so thick some leaves were dying anyway. In nature plants can be naturally thinned by animals and weather. You need to replicate this also indoors. I would think idk maybe I’m way off. One way for you to find out like you said is to run a side by side.

 

[Migrower]

I don’t want this thread to seem argumentative because that I find is very childish. We should all put in our honest input and grow together as I believe the forum is great for if used properly. I mean if not taking off leaves outdoors in your side by side was proven more effective. That is knowledge I’d like acquiring!

 

[OldManRiver]

By removing leaves you promote more vigorous growth. I’ve only grown cannabis like I said one run. And in that one run I noticed how much vigorously my plants grew after I trimmed off leaves for various reasons. The canopy getting to thick so lower branches I did want to grow were not getting enough light. The plain crowding of leaves getting so thick some leaves were dying anyway. In nature plants can be naturally thinned by animals and weather. You need to replicate this also indoors. I would think idk maybe I’m way off. One way for you to find out like you said is to run a side by side.

A couple thoughts:

1) first off, the beginning of this discussion is about an outdoor grow. So indoors is kinda tangential. My comments are in light of outdoor growth.

2) healthy pot grows really vigorously. It's pretty easy for it to get eight feet tall in four months. When it gets to a certain size, it seems to accelerate. If you didn't have a control plant when you pruned, you have no way of knowing whether the growth you experienced was simply that normal acceleration.

 

[Ace9137]

Actually, if you remove the buds(on lower branches) and not the leaves, your plant will have more energy, the term lollipopping comes from trimming bushes and shrubs that can handle the loss. If you are speaking of any fruit bearing or flowering plant would be dependent on species of plants, say like basil, you do not let basil flower, as it changes the taste. Cannabis is a flowering annual, if you remove the lower flowers without disturbing the fan leaves then maybe the theory of energy redirection *may* work. No matter how bushy a plant gets it will still need those leaves, mainly, so it can utilize the chlorophyll in said leaves when the plant decides it no longer needs it, senescence for example. As far as degrees, there is a difference from educated and intelligent, the most important idea would be wisdom which comes over time and experience, I understand you may have worked hard for the degree, the problem is that we all hear you echoing everything that most growers on most cannabis forums echo.