So what Ec should I be feeding in coco?

[Taurus]

Bingo; every strain is different. Furthermore; Every grow is different. Lighting intensity; RH; ventilation and temps are huge contributing factors in this relationship.... ie. how much the plant can consume. The ppm your using in one setup will be different in another.... That said; I've usually got my plants tolerating 1000 ppm long before I go into flowering mode.

Look at the plant; it's response to the concentration. Watch what your leaves are doing... What I've done in the past is bring it up to it's maximum; then back off by about 200 ppm... You can push things; no doubt; but when you hit a bump in the road your going to have a big fucking catastrophic disaster. So it's best to shoot under by a safe margin. There are other far safer methods than pushing raw nutrients.

Where I get bud density these days isn't in nutrient ppm; but in fortifying my fert regimes with nutrient stabilizers. Fluvics; humics; amino acids; trace vitamins and minerals; enzymes. I rarely push beyond 1000 ppm these days; even during the peak of flowering.

View attachment 1205109

If I’m using a fully chelated minerals that are already broken down and ready to be absorbed why would I need humic and fulvic? And doesn’t the plant create thier own amino acids? Enzymes I add weekly when I do my flush so I’m in agreement there. And trace elements are present in my nutrient which are chelated as well. I do agree with you about slowly increasing ppm , I was shocked when the owner of hgv and a few other growers I know that use it go with 3.0EC from start to finish.

 

[Frankster]

If I’m using a fully chelated minerals that are already broken down and ready to be absorbed why would I need humic and fulvic? And doesn’t the plant create thier own amino acids? Enzymes I add weekly when I do my flush so I’m in agreement there. And trace elements are present in my nutrient which are chelated as well. I do agree with you about slowly increasing ppm , I was shocked when the owner of hgv and a few other growers I know that use it go with 3.0EC from start to finish.

You well can do what you want brother; I'm not saying you can't be successful with more than one approach to something; That said what I'm talking about has several advantages your not acknowledging.

1) It stabilizes nutrient pH and magnifies, the elemental composition that you speak about. ie. buffers salts on a massive level.
2) It's what THC is made from. ie. ligands; parts of ligands, I try to fill in as much of the small components of the puzzle as possible. ie. all cannabinoids are at their basic core amino-ligands. Think about that for one min. Plants are less than 10% NPK; and all trace minerals on a molecular wt. per mass basis. Plants are largely carbon sinks... Especially THC. So I offer up all sorts of simple carbons. What it can't take up; maybe the microbes can... Bradyrhizobium, the Acidobacteria RB41, and Streptomyces -- were better than their rarer counterparts at using both existing soil carbon and nutrients added to the soil.
3) IT STABLIZES NUTRIENT pH.... also increases complexity of the flowers; smells; oils; everything at a much more complex level than can be obtained with salts alone. It's more stress resistant; more cold and heat tolerant; the list goes on... What you feed the plant; and the microbes really do combine with the cultivar on a very genetic and synergism level. Microbiome; fauna however you want to describe. homeostasis. What's truly possible; becomes possible.


bubba; I use very small tiny amounts of phosphorus during the swell; and grow just as large; better quality buds than before using (only) salts. That's all I can say; the proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying your way can't be done equally well. I just never had as much luck with salts alone; made plenty of massive buds; but the overall quality wasn't quite what I was after.

But this formulary has take me over a year to develop.; and the buds are dense early->mid way though flower, from the start; all the way down to the bottom of the plant. By the end the entire plant simply wants to fall over; it's so top heavy.

 

[DanC520]

You well can do what you want brother; I'm not saying you can't be successful with more than one approach to something; That said what I'm talking about has several advantages your not acknowledging.

1) It stabilizes nutrient pH and magnifies, the elemental composition that you speak about. ie. buffers salts on a massive level.
2) It's what THC is made from. ie. ligands; parts of ligands, I try to fill in as much of the small components of the puzzle as possible. ie. all cannabinoids are at their basic core amino-ligands. Think about that for one min. Plants are less than 10% NPK; and all trace minerals on a molecular wt. per mass basis. Plants are largely carbon sinks... Especially THC. So I offer up all sorts of simple carbons. What it can't take up; maybe the microbes can... Bradyrhizobium, the Acidobacteria RB41, and Streptomyces -- were better than their rarer counterparts at using both existing soil carbon and nutrients added to the soil.
3) IT STABLIZES NUTRIENT pH.... also increases complexity of the flowers; smells; oils; everything at a much more complex level than can be obtained with salts alone. It's more stress resistant; more cold and heat tolerant; the list goes on... What you feed the plant; and the microbes really do combine with the cultivar on a very genetic and synergism level. Microbiome; fauna however you want to describe. homeostasis. What's truly possible; becomes possible.


bubba; I use very small tiny amounts of phosphorus during the swell; and grow just as large; better quality buds than before using (only) salts. That's all I can say; the proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying your way can't be done equally well. I just never had as much luck with salts alone; made plenty of massive buds; but the overall quality wasn't quite what I was after.

But this formulary has take me over a year to develop.; and the buds are dense early->mid way though flower, from the start; all the way down to the bottom of the plant. By the end the entire plant simply wants to fall over; it's so top heavy.

Some of you guys are too smart for me and I’m not dumb. At least I think I’m not…shit…

 

[Frankster]

Some of you guys are too smart for me and I’m not dumb. At least I think I’m not…shit…

understanding something is relative; I've got a background in biochemistry; organic and inorganic chemistry; microbiology. over 4 years of it at university. I'm sure there are subjects you understand well also; granted I did well in the class. I was always interested in it. Professor tried to get me to change my profession and become a chemist.

Anyhow, it's all rather fundamental anyhow; and I've studied it for some time now. Lots of trial and errors made; and honing the techniques. Everything I do is mostly simple observation; trial and error. Tinkering; with ideas. Pushing it where I can; and leaving what doesn't pan out in the past. Learning from failure.

The real keys here are not everything listed in the pics. Most people have the microbes covered. The real benefits lie in having an simple amino source; a more complex ligand based one; and fluvic of some type. Those are really targeted buffers that enhance flowering. Build the buffer system. Enhance resistance. Feed the fauna, ect..

During veg I just use salts cause it doesn't matter; and the plants really don't benefit at that phase.

I only use it during the flowering stage; and the more "interesting" acids you challenge the plant with early in flower; the more it can do. Add a tiny bit of sugars for energy, and you've got yourself a truly "organic living salt" setup. Then just follow basic mixing protocols, monitor pH; and shazam. I also alternatively flush everything periodically with a Yucca saponin wetting agent; another layer of pH stability; to ensure proper drainage, and remove any excess buildup.

I'm paying literally pennies on the dollar for my solutions; and I contend there just as good or better than most of the big Ag companies offerings. Been there; done that, (very expensive) several of them; including AN and foxfarms; plus I can chase my micros far easier; and constantly fine tune things.

Here's the micros I use; if needed. This is one of the few formulations that I actually purchase. But this chelated micros will make 100's of pounds (dry) fertilizer. (1000's of gallons) Will take years to use up. $25 @1/8->1/16 tsp per gallon

 

[DanC520]

understanding something is relative; I've got a background in biochemistry; organic and inorganic chemistry; microbiology. over 4 years of it at university. I'm sure there are subjects you understand well also; granted I did well in the class. I was always interested in it. Professor tried to get me to change my profession and become a chemist.

Anyhow, it's all rather fundamental anyhow; and I've studied it for some time now. Lots of trial and errors made; and honing the techniqes.

The real keys here are not everything listed in the pics. Most people have the microbes covered. The real benefits lie in having an simple amino source; a more complex ligand based one; and fluvic of some type. Those are really targeted buffers that enhance flowering. Build the buffer system. Enhance resistance. Feed the fauna, ect..

During veg I just use salts cause it doesn't matter; and the plants really don't benefit at that phase.

I only use it during the flowering stage; and the more "interesting" acids you challenge the plant with early in flower; the more it can do. Add a tiny bit of sugars for energy, and you've got yourself a truly "organic living salt" setup. Then just follow basic mixing protocols, monitor pH; and shazam. I also alternatively flush everything periodically with a Yucca saponin wetting agent; another layer of pH stability; to ensure proper drainage, and remove any excess buildup.

I'm paying literally pennies on the dollar for my solutions; and I contend there just as good or better than most of the big Ag companies offerings. Been there; done that, several of them; including AN and foxfarms; plus I can chase my micros far easier; and constantly fine tune things.

Here's the micros I use; if needed. This is one of the few formulations that I actually purchase. But this chelated micros will make 100's of pounds (dry) fertilizer. (1000's of gallons) Will take years to use up. $25

Totally get it. I was both serious and joking. More effort and time into a field of study, the more knowledge gained. Gladwells 10k hours and all that stuff. I’m like a year into this hobby, so can only digest info at a certain level. Long story short, chemistry and bio sciences not my forte. Baby steps. I just try to follow Dwight’s advice.

 

[Madmax]

understanding something is relative; I've got a background in biochemistry; organic and inorganic chemistry; microbiology. over 4 years of it at university. I'm sure there are subjects you understand well also; granted I did well in the class. I was always interested in it. Professor tried to get me to change my profession and become a chemist.

Anyhow, it's all rather fundamental anyhow; and I've studied it for some time now. Lots of trial and errors made; and honing the techniques. Everything I do is mostly simple observation; trial and error. Tinkering; with ideas. Pushing it where I can; and leaving what doesn't pan out in the past. Learning from failure.

The real keys here are not everything listed in the pics. Most people have the microbes covered. The real benefits lie in having an simple amino source; a more complex ligand based one; and fluvic of some type. Those are really targeted buffers that enhance flowering. Build the buffer system. Enhance resistance. Feed the fauna, ect..

During veg I just use salts cause it doesn't matter; and the plants really don't benefit at that phase.

I only use it during the flowering stage; and the more "interesting" acids you challenge the plant with early in flower; the more it can do. Add a tiny bit of sugars for energy, and you've got yourself a truly "organic living salt" setup. Then just follow basic mixing protocols, monitor pH; and shazam. I also alternatively flush everything periodically with a Yucca saponin wetting agent; another layer of pH stability; to ensure proper drainage, and remove any excess buildup.

I'm paying literally pennies on the dollar for my solutions; and I contend there just as good or better than most of the big Ag companies offerings. Been there; done that, (very expensive) several of them; including AN and foxfarms; plus I can chase my micros far easier; and constantly fine tune things.

Here's the micros I use; if needed. This is one of the few formulations that I actually purchase. But this chelated micros will make 100's of pounds (dry) fertilizer. (1000's of gallons) Will take years to use up. $25 @1/8->1/16 tsp per gallon

Wow..Your right into it brother..good stuff.im only just playing round the ring to the rabbit hole.your waay down in there ..i aint going down there .too deep for me haha..

 

[Frankster]

Totally get it. I was both serious and joking. More effort and time into a field of study, the more knowledge gained. Gladwells 10k hours and all that stuff. I’m like a year into this hobby, so can only digest info at a certain level. Long story short, chemistry and bio sciences not my forte. Baby steps. I just try to follow Dwight’s advice.

Agreed. The other thing is that I don't have a 40 hour work week anymore; and I can mostly do the things I want in life.

Keeping myself focused on something; what's the saying. Idle time is the devil's workshop; I try to avoid that pitfall. Keeping my mind engaged helps me to keep from my obsessive tendencies also. I tend to focus much mental energy to everything that can and will go wrong. To the point of my own undoing sometimes. lol; that's why I snicker when you guys see me as "above average" because everything is relative. There is indeed only a fine line between brilliance and madness as both share a particular gene.

I'm extremely blessed and fortunate that I can pursue interest of mine. Don't have to obsess about performing for everyone else anymore, ect. I can tell people to fuck off. and really mean it. I fully enjoy my newly discovered magical powers. aka. self-determination. I spend a lot of time combing though nonsense and reading this or that; or farting around with stuff most people would never take the time to investigate. I've got lots of time on my hands for the most part; these days.

Most people simply have much bigger priorities.

 

[SeymourGreen]

understanding something is relative; I've got a background in biochemistry; organic and inorganic chemistry; microbiology. over 4 years of it at university. I'm sure there are subjects you understand well also; granted I did well in the class. I was always interested in it. Professor tried to get me to change my profession and become a chemist.

Anyhow, it's all rather fundamental anyhow; and I've studied it for some time now. Lots of trial and errors made; and honing the techniques. Everything I do is mostly simple observation; trial and error. Tinkering; with ideas. Pushing it where I can; and leaving what doesn't pan out in the past. Learning from failure.

The real keys here are not everything listed in the pics. Most people have the microbes covered. The real benefits lie in having an simple amino source; a more complex ligand based one; and fluvic of some type. Those are really targeted buffers that enhance flowering. Build the buffer system. Enhance resistance. Feed the fauna, ect..

During veg I just use salts cause it doesn't matter; and the plants really don't benefit at that phase.

I only use it during the flowering stage; and the more "interesting" acids you challenge the plant with early in flower; the more it can do. Add a tiny bit of sugars for energy, and you've got yourself a truly "organic living salt" setup. Then just follow basic mixing protocols, monitor pH; and shazam. I also alternatively flush everything periodically with a Yucca saponin wetting agent; another layer of pH stability; to ensure proper drainage, and remove any excess buildup.

I'm paying literally pennies on the dollar for my solutions; and I contend there just as good or better than most of the big Ag companies offerings. Been there; done that, (very expensive) several of them; including AN and foxfarms; plus I can chase my micros far easier; and constantly fine tune things.

Here's the micros I use; if needed. This is one of the few formulations that I actually purchase. But this chelated micros will make 100's of pounds (dry) fertilizer. (1000's of gallons) Will take years to use up. $25 @1/8->1/16 tsp per gallon

I would like to know more about this organic living salts stuff. I use silica, raw salts, and fulvic. What are these ligand things you speak of and what’s a good source?

 

[Taurus]

You well can do what you want brother; I'm not saying you can't be successful with more than one approach to something; That said what I'm talking about has several advantages your not acknowledging.

1) It stabilizes nutrient pH and magnifies, the elemental composition that you speak about. ie. buffers salts on a massive level.
2) It's what THC is made from. ie. ligands; parts of ligands, I try to fill in as much of the small components of the puzzle as possible. ie. all cannabinoids are at their basic core amino-ligands. Think about that for one min. Plants are less than 10% NPK; and all trace minerals on a molecular wt. per mass basis. Plants are largely carbon sinks... Especially THC. So I offer up all sorts of simple carbons. What it can't take up; maybe the microbes can... Bradyrhizobium, the Acidobacteria RB41, and Streptomyces -- were better than their rarer counterparts at using both existing soil carbon and nutrients added to the soil.
3) IT STABLIZES NUTRIENT pH.... also increases complexity of the flowers; smells; oils; everything at a much more complex level than can be obtained with salts alone. It's more stress resistant; more cold and heat tolerant; the list goes on... What you feed the plant; and the microbes really do combine with the cultivar on a very genetic and synergism level. Microbiome; fauna however you want to describe. homeostasis. What's truly possible; becomes possible.


bubba; I use very small tiny amounts of phosphorus during the swell; and grow just as large; better quality buds than before using (only) salts. That's all I can say; the proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying your way can't be done equally well. I just never had as much luck with salts alone; made plenty of massive buds; but the overall quality wasn't quite what I was after.

But this formulary has take me over a year to develop.; and the buds are dense early->mid way though flower, from the start; all the way down to the bottom of the plant. By the end the entire plant simply wants to fall over; it's so top heavy.

That was a very interesting read, thank you for that. I have been using straight salts with a weekly enzyme flush and had great success but like you I have a thirst for knowledge and improvement. I’m currently dosing my salts with a dosetron automatically and control my ph with a dosetron mini doser. But I do have an extra doser that I’m not using. If you had to chose 1 thing that you think would be the most important thing to add with my salt feedings to improve my grow what would it be and why? I was thinking of adding microbes but I’m using coco and feeding chelated minerals so I have no Organics for the microbes to break down.

 

[Taurus]

Bingo; every strain is different. Furthermore; Every grow is different. Lighting intensity; RH; ventilation and temps are huge contributing factors in this relationship.... ie. how much the plant can consume. The ppm your using in one setup will be different in another.... That said; I've usually got my plants tolerating 1000 ppm long before I go into flowering mode.

Look at the plant; it's response to the concentration. Watch what your leaves are doing... What I've done in the past is bring it up to it's maximum; then back off by about 200 ppm... You can push things; no doubt; but when you hit a bump in the road your going to have a big fucking catastrophic disaster. So it's best to shoot under by a safe margin. There are other far safer methods than pushing raw nutrients.

Where I get bud density these days isn't in nutrient ppm; but in fortifying my fert regimes with nutrient stabilizers. Fluvics; humics; amino acids; trace vitamins and minerals; enzymes. I rarely push beyond 1000 ppm these days; even during the peak of flowering.

View attachment 1205109

Nice!! Everyone’s got thier great methods and they all work with this plant. I feed heavy and get good runoff and my humidity is under control so I get nice dry backs before feedings. These have 35 days more of flowering to do and they are stacking on weight. OREOZ