Frankster said:

Bingo; every strain is different. Furthermore; Every grow is different. Lighting intensity; RH; ventilation and temps are huge contributing factors in this relationship.... ie. how much the plant can consume. The ppm your using in one setup will be different in another.... That said; I've usually got my plants tolerating 1000 ppm long before I go into flowering mode.

Look at the plant; it's response to the concentration. Watch what your leaves are doing... What I've done in the past is bring it up to it's maximum; then back off by about 200 ppm... You can push things; no doubt; but when you hit a bump in the road your going to have a big fucking catastrophic disaster. So it's best to shoot under by a safe margin. There are other far safer methods than pushing raw nutrients.

Where I get bud density these days isn't in nutrient ppm; but in fortifying my fert regimes with nutrient stabilizers. Fluvics; humics; amino acids; trace vitamins and minerals; enzymes. I rarely push beyond 1000 ppm these days; even during the peak of flowering.

View attachment 1205109

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Taurus said:

If I’m using a fully chelated minerals that are already broken down and ready to be absorbed why would I need humic and fulvic? And doesn’t the plant create thier own amino acids? Enzymes I add weekly when I do my flush so I’m in agreement there. And trace elements are present in my nutrient which are chelated as well. I do agree with you about slowly increasing ppm , I was shocked when the owner of hgv and a few other growers I know that use it go with 3.0EC from start to finish.

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Frankster said:

You well can do what you want brother; I'm not saying you can't be successful with more than one approach to something; That said what I'm talking about has several advantages your not acknowledging.

1) It stabilizes nutrient pH and magnifies, the elemental composition that you speak about. ie. buffers salts on a massive level.
2) It's what THC is made from. ie. ligands; parts of ligands, I try to fill in as much of the small components of the puzzle as possible. ie. all cannabinoids are at their basic core amino-ligands. Think about that for one min. Plants are less than 10% NPK; and all trace minerals on a molecular wt. per mass basis. Plants are largely carbon sinks... Especially THC. So I offer up all sorts of simple carbons. What it can't take up; maybe the microbes can... Bradyrhizobium, the Acidobacteria RB41, and Streptomyces -- were better than their rarer counterparts at using both existing soil carbon and nutrients added to the soil.
3) IT STABLIZES NUTRIENT pH.... also increases complexity of the flowers; smells; oils; everything at a much more complex level than can be obtained with salts alone. It's more stress resistant; more cold and heat tolerant; the list goes on... What you feed the plant; and the microbes really do combine with the cultivar on a very genetic and synergism level. Microbiome; fauna however you want to describe. homeostasis. What's truly possible; becomes possible.


bubba; I use very small tiny amounts of phosphorus during the swell; and grow just as large; better quality buds than before using (only) salts. That's all I can say; the proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying your way can't be done equally well. I just never had as much luck with salts alone; made plenty of massive buds; but the overall quality wasn't quite what I was after.

But this formulary has take me over a year to develop.; and the buds are dense early->mid way though flower, from the start; all the way down to the bottom of the plant. By the end the entire plant simply wants to fall over; it's so top heavy.

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DanC520 said:

Some of you guys are too smart for me and I’m not dumb. At least I think I’m not…shit…

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Frankster said:

understanding something is relative; I've got a background in biochemistry; organic and inorganic chemistry; microbiology. over 4 years of it at university. I'm sure there are subjects you understand well also; granted I did well in the class. I was always interested in it. Professor tried to get me to change my profession and become a chemist.

Anyhow, it's all rather fundamental anyhow; and I've studied it for some time now. Lots of trial and errors made; and honing the techniqes.

The real keys here are not everything listed in the pics. Most people have the microbes covered. The real benefits lie in having an simple amino source; a more complex ligand based one; and fluvic of some type. Those are really targeted buffers that enhance flowering. Build the buffer system. Enhance resistance. Feed the fauna, ect..

During veg I just use salts cause it doesn't matter; and the plants really don't benefit at that phase.

I only use it during the flowering stage; and the more "interesting" acids you challenge the plant with early in flower; the more it can do. Add a tiny bit of sugars for energy, and you've got yourself a truly "organic living salt" setup. Then just follow basic mixing protocols, monitor pH; and shazam. I also alternatively flush everything periodically with a Yucca saponin wetting agent; another layer of pH stability; to ensure proper drainage, and remove any excess buildup.

I'm paying literally pennies on the dollar for my solutions; and I contend there just as good or better than most of the big Ag companies offerings. Been there; done that, several of them; including AN and foxfarms; plus I can chase my micros far easier; and constantly fine tune things.

Here's the micros I use; if needed. This is one of the few formulations that I actually purchase. But this chelated micros will make 100's of pounds (dry) fertilizer. (1000's of gallons) Will take years to use up. $25

Click to expand...

Frankster said:

understanding something is relative; I've got a background in biochemistry; organic and inorganic chemistry; microbiology. over 4 years of it at university. I'm sure there are subjects you understand well also; granted I did well in the class. I was always interested in it. Professor tried to get me to change my profession and become a chemist.

Anyhow, it's all rather fundamental anyhow; and I've studied it for some time now. Lots of trial and errors made; and honing the techniques. Everything I do is mostly simple observation; trial and error. Tinkering; with ideas. Pushing it where I can; and leaving what doesn't pan out in the past. Learning from failure.

The real keys here are not everything listed in the pics. Most people have the microbes covered. The real benefits lie in having an simple amino source; a more complex ligand based one; and fluvic of some type. Those are really targeted buffers that enhance flowering. Build the buffer system. Enhance resistance. Feed the fauna, ect..

During veg I just use salts cause it doesn't matter; and the plants really don't benefit at that phase.

I only use it during the flowering stage; and the more "interesting" acids you challenge the plant with early in flower; the more it can do. Add a tiny bit of sugars for energy, and you've got yourself a truly "organic living salt" setup. Then just follow basic mixing protocols, monitor pH; and shazam. I also alternatively flush everything periodically with a Yucca saponin wetting agent; another layer of pH stability; to ensure proper drainage, and remove any excess buildup.

I'm paying literally pennies on the dollar for my solutions; and I contend there just as good or better than most of the big Ag companies offerings. Been there; done that, (very expensive) several of them; including AN and foxfarms; plus I can chase my micros far easier; and constantly fine tune things.

Here's the micros I use; if needed. This is one of the few formulations that I actually purchase. But this chelated micros will make 100's of pounds (dry) fertilizer. (1000's of gallons) Will take years to use up. $25 @1/8->1/16 tsp per gallon

Click to expand...

DanC520 said:

Totally get it. I was both serious and joking. More effort and time into a field of study, the more knowledge gained. Gladwells 10k hours and all that stuff. I’m like a year into this hobby, so can only digest info at a certain level. Long story short, chemistry and bio sciences not my forte. Baby steps. I just try to follow Dwight’s advice.

Click to expand...

Frankster said:

understanding something is relative; I've got a background in biochemistry; organic and inorganic chemistry; microbiology. over 4 years of it at university. I'm sure there are subjects you understand well also; granted I did well in the class. I was always interested in it. Professor tried to get me to change my profession and become a chemist.

Anyhow, it's all rather fundamental anyhow; and I've studied it for some time now. Lots of trial and errors made; and honing the techniques. Everything I do is mostly simple observation; trial and error. Tinkering; with ideas. Pushing it where I can; and leaving what doesn't pan out in the past. Learning from failure.

The real keys here are not everything listed in the pics. Most people have the microbes covered. The real benefits lie in having an simple amino source; a more complex ligand based one; and fluvic of some type. Those are really targeted buffers that enhance flowering. Build the buffer system. Enhance resistance. Feed the fauna, ect..

During veg I just use salts cause it doesn't matter; and the plants really don't benefit at that phase.

I only use it during the flowering stage; and the more "interesting" acids you challenge the plant with early in flower; the more it can do. Add a tiny bit of sugars for energy, and you've got yourself a truly "organic living salt" setup. Then just follow basic mixing protocols, monitor pH; and shazam. I also alternatively flush everything periodically with a Yucca saponin wetting agent; another layer of pH stability; to ensure proper drainage, and remove any excess buildup.

I'm paying literally pennies on the dollar for my solutions; and I contend there just as good or better than most of the big Ag companies offerings. Been there; done that, (very expensive) several of them; including AN and foxfarms; plus I can chase my micros far easier; and constantly fine tune things.

Here's the micros I use; if needed. This is one of the few formulations that I actually purchase. But this chelated micros will make 100's of pounds (dry) fertilizer. (1000's of gallons) Will take years to use up. $25 @1/8->1/16 tsp per gallon

Click to expand...

Frankster said:

You well can do what you want brother; I'm not saying you can't be successful with more than one approach to something; That said what I'm talking about has several advantages your not acknowledging.

1) It stabilizes nutrient pH and magnifies, the elemental composition that you speak about. ie. buffers salts on a massive level.
2) It's what THC is made from. ie. ligands; parts of ligands, I try to fill in as much of the small components of the puzzle as possible. ie. all cannabinoids are at their basic core amino-ligands. Think about that for one min. Plants are less than 10% NPK; and all trace minerals on a molecular wt. per mass basis. Plants are largely carbon sinks... Especially THC. So I offer up all sorts of simple carbons. What it can't take up; maybe the microbes can... Bradyrhizobium, the Acidobacteria RB41, and Streptomyces -- were better than their rarer counterparts at using both existing soil carbon and nutrients added to the soil.
3) IT STABLIZES NUTRIENT pH.... also increases complexity of the flowers; smells; oils; everything at a much more complex level than can be obtained with salts alone. It's more stress resistant; more cold and heat tolerant; the list goes on... What you feed the plant; and the microbes really do combine with the cultivar on a very genetic and synergism level. Microbiome; fauna however you want to describe. homeostasis. What's truly possible; becomes possible.


bubba; I use very small tiny amounts of phosphorus during the swell; and grow just as large; better quality buds than before using (only) salts. That's all I can say; the proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying your way can't be done equally well. I just never had as much luck with salts alone; made plenty of massive buds; but the overall quality wasn't quite what I was after.

But this formulary has take me over a year to develop.; and the buds are dense early->mid way though flower, from the start; all the way down to the bottom of the plant. By the end the entire plant simply wants to fall over; it's so top heavy.

Click to expand...

Frankster said:

Bingo; every strain is different. Furthermore; Every grow is different. Lighting intensity; RH; ventilation and temps are huge contributing factors in this relationship.... ie. how much the plant can consume. The ppm your using in one setup will be different in another.... That said; I've usually got my plants tolerating 1000 ppm long before I go into flowering mode.

Look at the plant; it's response to the concentration. Watch what your leaves are doing... What I've done in the past is bring it up to it's maximum; then back off by about 200 ppm... You can push things; no doubt; but when you hit a bump in the road your going to have a big fucking catastrophic disaster. So it's best to shoot under by a safe margin. There are other far safer methods than pushing raw nutrients.

Where I get bud density these days isn't in nutrient ppm; but in fortifying my fert regimes with nutrient stabilizers. Fluvics; humics; amino acids; trace vitamins and minerals; enzymes. I rarely push beyond 1000 ppm these days; even during the peak of flowering.

View attachment 1205109

Click to expand...