Soil Beds

[bringtahoetreez]

I've been hearing a lot of things about bigger yields with soil beds... any thoughts? advantages, disadvantages?

 

[Seamaiden]

My organic soil food web gals saved my ass. Averaged 4lbs apiece WITH ALMOST NO ADDITIONAL CARE from me. I gotta say, "Woot!" Woot.

Raised beds, me likey. Biggest disadvantage for *me* is specifically with the seed starts, they always, ALWAYS without fail hit the 10' mark. That's almost twice as high as I am. Then, we're on a pretty good slope, so tending the downhill side of the slope puts me at their knees--no good for spraying, seeing what's happening up top, etcetera. People told me, "Just bend 'em down." Yeah, right, bend down one main branch, next thing I know something's coming up from the side to take its place. So, this year I hope to control height in at least one bed by putting out clones there instead of seed starts.

Another disadvantage is being seen and ripped. Been there, done that, got the surveillance in now.

HUGE advantage is that if you do the beds right, you can get away with truly minimal care and still get a fantastic crop.

I see you're located in "Tahoe," I'm south of you almost directly (moved down here from South Lake). I'm at 2500', even if you're in the basin you've got much different weather patterns than I do even just an hour and a half away, so I would suggest being prepared for those June and July rain/snow showers, just in case. Maybe a canopy you can throw up on short notice, or have the beds framed out so you can get something up over the girls to protect them, just in case. Snow won't kill them, neither will temps below freezing (20F or so), especially if they're in-ground.

What else...? This is it, off the toppa mah hed.

 

[mrbong73]

I've been hearing a lot of things about bigger yields with soil beds... any thoughts? advantages, disadvantages?

Are you talking about indoor or outdoor? or both?
In either case you can take advantage of building a quality soil and really get as close to natural processes as possible.
One of the main benefits that I can think of is getting a mycohorrizal association going that would be much stronger than container growing.

It would work best to leave the roots of harvested plants intact and plant new plants next to old. By top dressing with compost, ewc, mulch, etc you could get a quality thing going on in there.

mrb

 

[Udyana Peace]

I've been hearing a lot of things about bigger yields with soil beds... any thoughts? advantages, disadvantages?

If you're talking about an indoor bed sometimes called the 'Soma Table' from an article years ago by Soma the seed breeder then I have a small bit of experience.

I ran Soma's 4' x 4' bed design for 3 cycles a couple of years back with some significant modifications. I did hit a higher 'grams per watt' so in that regard it was a good run.

For the increased work, hassle, general PITA issues it wasn't worth continuing. Though some of the issues that I encountered were centered around achieving a complete and total hydration of the bed that could be easily resolved today by using Tropf Blutmat devices.

Get your soil correct and you can pull some high yields and planning it out will be helpful to maximize your efforts.

Assuming you're talking about an indoor bed set-up.

HTH

UP

 

[mrbong73]

Hey UP, good to see ya.
How are your outdoor beds going so far?

If I had more space for indoor I might consider doing a bed grow using the GeoPlanters system.
I do like to be able to move my containers around as I will pull them out to enjoy the sunshine regularly.

 

[Udyana Peace]

mrbong73

The beds are doing as well as one could expect with temps dipping down to the mid-30s at night. The strawberries are doing very well, especially the Alpine varieties (about 12 different cultivars) and the regular PNW varieties are slowing moving along.

Your information about the Malibu Biodynamic Compost got me motivated. I ordered this pack of seeds from my good friends at Horizon Herbs in Southern Oregon. It's $30.00 for 18 seed types - Astragalus, Holy Basil (Kapoor Tulsi), Gobo Burdock, Mixed Calendula, German Chamomile, Echinacea purpurea, Elecampane, Evening Primrose, Brown Flax, Lemon Balm, Marshmallow, Official Motherwort, Stinging Nettles, Cayenne Pepper, Garden Sage, Official Valerian, Wood Betony and Yarrow.

I also purchased 4 ea. comfrey root stocks - the non-invasive variety (Bocking 14 and also called the Russian Cultivar).

That and some white, red and crimson clover seeds, hairy vetch, rye, oats and rice - I'm set to do some real composting later this summer I'm hoping. I even found a source for ground white oak bark - the 'other' ingredient in the compost intended to 're-charge' the soil in the Biodynamic methodology/system.

I have 3 of the Compost Saks filled with alfalfa, bamboo humus, organic alfalfa hay, leaf mold, oyster shell powder, soft rock phosphate, Canadian glacial rock dust. I even found a use for the huge amount of fermented seed meal that I did several months back - inoculated with lactobacillus and allowed to ferment down to 2.8 pH.

Oh yeah - 60 lbs. of fresh aloe vera leaves from a local wholesale produce house that I used to work for. $!5.00 for a 30 lb. lug as they're called in the trade. Pretty inexpensive from my perspective.

Hint: take an aloe vera leave and extract the gel. Get about 2 tablespoons worth. Add 1/32 of the powdered seaweed extract product, about the same amount of TM-7 (if you already have it) and 1/2 tsp. of the liquid fulvic acid. Add 1/4 tsp of your powdered mycorrhizal spores to the mix.

There's a guaranteed rooting gel. Seriously.

UP

 

[mrbong73]

I was reading about the Common Sense Compost Making Method and was wondering if you had heard about this method.

 

[Udyana Peace]

I was reading about the Common Sense Compost Making Method and was wondering if you had heard about this method.

Thank you for the link. I just ordered a copy at Amazon.com and based on the few pages I scanned at the link I think this is a 'must have'

BTW - do you use the Amazon Kindle software for reading books - either the device or just the software on your desktop or laptop?

Gil Carandang's book on FPE/BIM is available for $9.99 in the Kindle eBook format - a good investment, IMHO. I read it from 'electronic' cover-to-cover last weekend. I think that it's a great resource and one that you might find helpful as well.

Peace

UP

 

[mrbong73]

Thank you for the link. I just ordered a copy at Amazon.com and based on the few pages I scanned at the link I think this is a 'must have'

BTW - do you use the Amazon Kindle software for reading books - either the device or just the software on your desktop or laptop?

Gil Carandang's book on FPE/BIM is available for $9.99 in the Kindle eBook format - a good investment, IMHO. I read it from 'electronic' cover-to-cover last weekend. I think that it's a great resource and one that you might find helpful as well.

Peace

UP

I don't have a Kindle yet but I will look into other means of getting his book.
From what I have read so far about the Common Sense method it suggests adding material in layers to the pile then poking holes down into it and adding the activators. Seems similar to the bio-dynamic method in some aspects.
I'm sure your compost will turn out amazing as usual I suspect.
mrb

 

[Blaze]

I built a bunch of 6 x 6 redwood raised beds for my outdoor last year. I am never growing in ground or in containers ever again. The growth rate and yield with the beds was very impressive - averaged 35-65% more yield vs the same clones that were grown with the same nutrients in the ground or in pots.

Advantages of raised beds:
*Increased drainage vs in-ground
*Increased aeration vs in-ground
*Wide area to allow rapid root development
*Increased growth
*Increased yield
*Stays cooler during hot weather compared to pots
*Warms up faster during the spring
*Greater all around control of the conditions in the root zone

Disadvantages:
*Higher initial cost to set up - lumber is expensive

Despite the higher cost compared to using pots or growing in ground, the beds paid for themselves ten-fold in the first year due to the increase in yield.

 

[bringtahoetreez]

If you're talking about an indoor bed sometimes called the 'Soma Table' from an article years ago by Soma the seed breeder then I have a small bit of experience.

I ran Soma's 4' x 4' bed design for 3 cycles a couple of years back with some significant modifications. I did hit a higher 'grams per watt' so in that regard it was a good run.

For the increased work, hassle, general PITA issues it wasn't worth continuing. Though some of the issues that I encountered were centered around achieving a complete and total hydration of the bed that could be easily resolved today by using Tropf Blutmat devices.

Get your soil correct and you can pull some high yields and planning it out will be helpful to maximize your efforts.

Assuming you're talking about an indoor bed set-up.

HTH

UP

This is only my 4th run through, I really appreciate the feedback. I am talking about an indoor setup. I've been using 5gal rootpots with organic roots and 30% added pearlite. Next time I'm also going to add worm castings. Any other ideas?

 

[mrbong73]

Any other ideas?

You can check out my soil mix thread for some ideas from me and UP on soil mixes and such.

Good luck

mrb

 

[true grit]

For indoors just get a 4x4 table, pick up the Smart Pot 4x4 tray liner ($30), fill it and get to work. I use them on coco and will be doing soil on a few coming up. Good stuff so far, and far far easier to control.

 

[redwhiteblue]

How many plants would you put in a 4' x 12' raised bed (appx 300 gallons)?

 

[Seamaiden]

How deep? If it's 2' deep they'll get a good bit bigger and denser than 1' deep IME. You can squash 'em together or you can give them room. In my old 3'x16'x2' deep bed I did 10-12 plants. I'd try to give a minimum 6' centers for planting. More is generally better for a few reasons, not the least of which is being able to view and tend each plant all the way around.

 

[redwhiteblue]

How deep? If it's 2' deep they'll get a good bit bigger and denser than 1' deep IME. You can squash 'em together or you can give them room. In my old 3'x16'x2' deep bed I did 10-12 plants. I'd try to give a minimum 6' centers for planting. More is generally better for a few reasons, not the least of which is being able to view and tend each plant all the way around.

They're 3.5 feet deep. The top 1.5 is the good organic, fully amended, the bottom 2 ft is organic "dirt" for drainage. 2 plants or 3 in the 4x12 bed?

 

[Seamaiden]

I think you can fit 3 in there and still get around ok. Push the two outside ones to the edges, set back a bit so the middle one is in the front.

 

[Funkstarfish]

Hey, Who all is growing in beds indoors? Was thinking of doing 2 indoor beds each 3.5ft x 3.5 ft x 20 inches deep and each under a 600 watt light. Run 3 plants per bed to get my 6 and call it good.
Is anyone using their garden compost indoors? Mulching w straw? looking to mainly add water, teas and occasional feeds.

 

[true grit]

Thats too deep IMO, you don't need more than 10" depth from my experience. the roots grow laterally instead of just down. Id imagine 3.5 x 3.5 x 10" having plenty of volume for 3 plants.

 

[Cjgrow]

Hey, Who all is growing in beds indoors? Was thinking of doing 2 indoor beds each 3.5ft x 3.5 ft x 20 inches deep and each under a 600 watt light. Run 3 plants per bed to get my 6 and call it good.
Is anyone using their garden compost indoors? Mulching w straw? looking to mainly add water, teas and occasional feeds.

I grow in 4x4 4x8 geopot beds under 3 1ks, next round I'm switching to 600w gavitas. Works great with my homemade soil mix mulched up with straw, plants explode in these beds. Can't wait till my next round with gavitas and some stable strains