soil in ebb&flow?

[jakew215]

soo ive been pondering over about a half dozen or so ideas for my next run, trying to keep it simple, im a noob so this might be a stupid question but has anyone tried using soil in like an ebb and flow table, i was thinking with like 36+ plants on a table with a screen over them will be a bitch to water so i was thinking of flooding the table and drain to waste when the girls need water. i was even thinking of using some modified super soil of some sort, keep it really straight forward.

idk what the hell all the systems are called so sorry if im just off on the name or something and ive just been looking up the wrong shit. lol.

 

[antimatter]

Soil generally takes days to dry out enough to the point it needs to be watered again so I doubt you would wanna put it on a timer but you could just go in and manually turn on the pump and flood the tables. Coco would be more practical for putting on a timer.. Id personally use some smart pots as to not make a mess with medium

Edit: I just read you wanted to do drain to waste so you would want a drip system setup not flood and drain that would waste to much nutrient solution as flood and drain requires alot liquid to flood. No need for fabric pots then.

 

[Trend]

It's semi possible but inefficient. Much better to do a top feed/drip and use the tray as a bed

 

[jakew215]

okay that makes sense to drip then runoff goes to waste.

i havent mentioned drip just cuz of the fact that it scares me to keep saturating the the soil constantly. when poeple run drip do they just drip heavy for like 30 minutes or something every few days?

cuz they way i water now its maybe feed and water once a week in five gal's, but i guess if the pot is much smaller it will dry out quicker.

they way i feed now is i use saucers and feed/water from the bottom. my thinking behind the table was to use small plastic square pots and then just flood an inch of the table or so and let the soil wick up the water for a bit then drain the excess. my thinking is would i'd only have to do this like twice a week so it would be so tedious.

but a simple drip system where i just have to top the res off would be nice also.

and on the pot subject why is everyone suggesting fabric pots, or smart pots. seems like a actual rigid container would be less messy and easier to arrange on the table.

people running drip on beds, what does there feeding/watering schedule look like?

 

[leadsled]

okay that makes sense to drip then runoff goes to waste.

i havent mentioned drip just cuz of the fact that it scares me to keep saturating the the soil constantly. when poeple run drip do they just drip heavy for like 30 minutes or something every few days?

You do not constantly saturate the soil. You choose how long to drip, that way it is equivalent to hand watering.

Not much different you just use a timer or a pump to water all the plants at once rather than one by one by hand.

cuz they way i water now its maybe feed and water once a week in five gal's, but i guess if the pot is much smaller it will dry out quicker.

they way i feed now is i use saucers and feed/water from the bottom. my thinking behind the table was to use small plastic square pots and then just flood an inch of the table or so and let the soil wick up the water for a bit then drain the excess. my thinking is would i'd only have to do this like twice a week so it would be so tedious.

but a simple drip system where i just have to top the res off would be nice also.

and on the pot subject why is everyone suggesting fabric pots, or smart pots. seems like a actual rigid container would be less messy and easier to arrange on the table.

people running drip on beds, what does there feeding/watering schedule look like?

I recommend to use top drip. it is not a constant drip. Just enough to water them or feed the plants. Just takes place of watering by hand. You can flick a switch to turn on a pump and wham all the plants are watered or fed in a minute.

top drip also requires and uses less water/food than ebb and flow. I also have gotten better yield with top drip vs ebb and flow.

You do need to be even more dilligent with flushing with ebb and flow. imho, Also better suited to hydro mediums. Not that it cant be done.

Example feed schedule:
monday: water
tuesday: still wet
wednesday: food
thursday: still wet
friday: water
saturday: still wet
sunday: food

I have a how to in the DIY section for making the manifold for a top drip setup.


You can run sog or lower plant numbers with top drip. Also much easier to maintain and can also be automated.

Can put plants in tray or in buckets to catch the runoff.

The smart pots and air pots are supposed to perform better than hard pots. Air pruning roots is more efficient than the rots spiraling around in the pot.

You are fine with the hard pots. I like to go high performance as possible. So that is why air pots or smart pots are appealing.

Also if starting from scratch why buy hard pots to later swap em out for better performing one? (just my thinking to try and avoid buying any hard pots that do not get used)

Many stated there worst plant in smart pot/air pot is better than there best plant in a hard container.

Let me know if you have any questions or need help. Have built the same setup for quite a few patients.

 

[antimatter]

I turn on my drip sytem pump manually because they drink different amounts at different stages of growth and im always around to do so. You can use drip emitters or just an open spaghetti line.

The fabric pots dry out way to fast in my experience, and don't give much benefit other then preventing root spiraling there better suited for outdoor growing in very large containers for a raised bed in the middle of a field/full sun but because there fabric medium can't fall through so in an ebb flow with a small particle medium like soil or coco it would make a mess.

 

[Xceptional]

soo ive been pondering over about a half dozen or so ideas for my next run, trying to keep it simple, im a noob so this might be a stupid question but has anyone tried using soil in like an ebb and flow table, i was thinking with like 36+ plants on a table with a screen over them will be a bitch to water so i was thinking of flooding the table and drain to waste when the girls need water. i was even thinking of using some modified super soil of some sort, keep it really straight forward.

idk what the hell all the systems are called so sorry if im just off on the name or something and ive just been looking up the wrong shit. lol.

nothing about that sounds simple bro dont fool yourself into thinking something complex is simple that's a oxymoron lol. either it's simple and requires more interaction or it's complex and maybe requires less interaction.

if you are looking for something that is simple to maintain and not extremely complex to setup look at these
http://www.blumat.info/english/index.html?zimmerbl.html~inhalt

I've never used them but I'd like to give them a try!

 

[Xceptional]

or actually the Tropf-Blumat System it uses a pressurized water source and drip feeds from the top. a little different then the link's houseplant model i was on when i grabbed the link.

 

[jakew215]

awesome thinks a bunch guys, thats really simple, ill just hook the pump up to a switch and use a drip, i really like this idea and the control ill have over it. i think i might end up going with air pots, i think they are cheaper. but we'll see, i might end up doing an entire bed.

would it be alight to put a top layer of hydroton or some kind of rock on the soil so when i run the drippers it kinda cascades over all the soil. seems like if i have a dripper or tube sitting in one spot on the soil that the water will just channel through ya know? would i have to move the tube or dripper every water? i guess it would be hard to tell how dry a bed would be with a layer of hydroton on top of it too.

i can always find something to bitch about.

again i really appreciate all your guys' input, really helping me narrow it down.

 

[antimatter]

Oh by the way the hype about the smart pots for indoor growing is bogus ive used them they dry out 2x as fast causing salt buildup from continuous feeding/maintenance causing more work, and im still using them its been about a year.. I bought alot of em. Root spiraling doesn't somehow magically create a plant that is not performing 100% just make sure your container is big enough in hard plastic, the smart pots do allow you to grow a bigger plant in a smaller container because they use every single millimeter of medium, and prevent any need for transplanting.

 

[jakew215]

nothing about that sounds simple bro dont fool yourself into thinking something complex is simple that's a oxymoron lol. either it's simple and requires more interaction or it's complex and maybe requires less interaction.

if you are looking for something that is simple to maintain and not extremely complex to setup look at these
http://www.blumat.info/english/index.html?zimmerbl.html~inhalt

I've never used them but I'd like to give them a try!

no my original dream of a 5 light 4 plant mpb isnt simple. this is much more my territory.

and no thanks. i want my plant to yield something.

 

[resinryder]

If you're gonna make the investment in table and res why not use it as intended? Really don't think I'd want to have my run off flowing back into the res. Pretty much asking for a problem with that. You would do better to run the runoff to waste and keep the res clean if using soil. Also you over water some and maybe not enough to others if all are fed at the same time which will cause a lot of problems you won't want to deal with. Soil on a table? Seems like more aggravation than it's worth. But this is strictly my opinion.
Having said that I'm digging the shit outta using 2 gallon smart pots with a 50/50 mix of coco coir and chunks. Texas Kid turned me on to this mix some time back and I absolutely love it. With the addition of the chunks it seems I get bigger water roots and faster/bigger plant growth. Put it on the timer and auto grow big ass plants.

 

[jakew215]

i was thinking these three gals or a bed...

 

[antimatter]

or actually the Tropf-Blumat System it uses a pressurized water source and drip feeds from the top. a little different then the link's houseplant model i was on when i grabbed the link.

I bought a couple boxes of those there nice but each one needs to be adjusted and checked individually because if the cone drys out they don't work properly which happens and they get stuck on so if your plants are sitting in trays you can walk in your room and have 5 gallons-10 gallons of water on your floor and you gotta go in with a shop vac.

Regular mag drive pump + sphaghetti line and a timer are way cheaper to setup and they always work no tinkering with dials and worrying about cones drying out.

 

[leadsled]

Oh by the way the hype about the smart pots for indoor growing is bogus ive used them they dry out 2x as fast causing salt buildup from continuous feeding/maintenance causing more work, and im still using them its been about a year.. I bought alot of em. Root spiraling doesn't somehow magically create a plant that is not performing 100% just make sure your container is big enough in hard plastic, the smart pots do allow you to grow a bigger plant in a smaller container because they use every single millimeter of medium, and prevent any need for transplanting.

Thanks for the review/feedback. I been doing fine with the normal pots. (have already purchased alot of them)

For someone starting out fresh, Thought it would be an advantage using a smart pot. easier to clean, less room for storage, more air) Also noticed them selling like hotcakes at the local hydro store.

Some do not report the bad and only say good things.
Maybe because there new they are still hyped and the word has not gotten out enough.

I got some samples and have not tested them out yet.

In hearing that, Looks like I will test the superoots air pot first.

Tried them out?

thanks for sharing.

 

[resinryder]

I love the smart pots.......BUT, they are not easy to clean. PERIOD. I use them 1 time only and order new ones each grow. I have better things to do than try an pull roots out of a felt type material. I've tried letting them dry out, soaking them in enzymes, and scrubbing them with the brittle side of a 2 sided sponge(which I found does work the best) but it's still a pain in the ass. Other than that I can't say enough good about them. They hold the plants up better, for me anyway, on the hydro table, which is a part of the reason I started using them. I can use the coco and not have all the fine bits of it all over the table and in the res like happens with regular containers which is a big plus for me.
Never heard of the superoots air pots. But if they work the same way as smart pot and clean up for reuse better it'd def be worth checking into.

 

[jakew215]

i wouldnt put my runoff back into the res? i dont think i ever said that.

im thinking 3 gal plastic pots with drip rings on each one. keep a 55 gal res for RO and like a 20 or something for nute solution or water with a pump in it connected to my drippers then have my run off go into another container to dispose of or to feed my roses or something.

 

[leadsled]

I love the smart pots.......BUT, they are not easy to clean. PERIOD. I use them 1 time only and order new ones each grow. I have better things to do than try an pull roots out of a felt type material. I've tried letting them dry out, soaking them in enzymes, and scrubbing them with the brittle side of a 2 sided sponge(which I found does work the best) but it's still a pain in the ass. Other than that I can't say enough good about them. They hold the plants up better, for me anyway, on the hydro table, which is a part of the reason I started using them. I can use the coco and not have all the fine bits of it all over the table and in the res like happens with regular containers which is a big plus for me.
Never heard of the superoots air pots. But if they work the same way as smart pot and clean up for reuse better it'd def be worth checking into.

Thanks for sharing the info. Sounds like a pain to clean.

Super roots air pots info and video.
http://www.superoots.com/air_intro.htm

Does look like a less stressful way to transplant..

i wouldnt put my runoff back into the res? i dont think i ever said that.

im thinking 3 gal plastic pots with drip rings on each one. keep a 55 gal res for RO and like a 20 or something for nute solution or water with a pump in it connected to my drippers then have my run off go into another container to dispose of or to feed my roses or something.

Sounds like a good plan. Also saves time to work on everything else.

Another option to save $$ on drippers or drip rings.

You can also drill a 1/4" hole in the pot (near top of pot) and then just stick the 1/4 drip line in the hole.

You can wrap a rubber band around the end of the dripper inside the pot to keep it in place.

 

[jakew215]

oh i was actually looking into those super root pots, i was thinking of trying to use those, be pretty spendy i think though.

pretty sure i got my decision made now.

 

[antimatter]

I won't be reusing my smartpots they look in rough shape after 1 cycle, I think the airpots would be more practical for reusing but I just never saw better plants with air pruning just amazing air pruned root balls, it feels kinda bad throwing away the roots because there so beautiful. In the winter they get cold in comparison to plastic pots slowing growth rates, there really for middle of summer with high temperatures that would cook a plastic pot its like a hole above ground.

No need for drip rings with 3 gallons or even 5 gallons just a spaghetti line and a drip stake, you can use drip emitters if you want but they can clog, the reason I turn my pump on manually is because my timer does 15 min intervals which is a bit much for some of my plants plants so its easier just for me to to turn it on manually and take that time to inspect my plants, if I have to go away for a couple days and there drinking alot I will plug in the timer.