Someone school me please (soil to soiless)

[jack_ripa]

This will be my first time growing in Promix. I have always grown in my own soil mixes. I would really appreciate someone who has made this transition taking a minute to school me a little.

What are the major things I will have to change about my grow style? I know I will be feeding right off the bat. I will probably have to start lighter than I am used to but other than that...

1. Is there stuff that soil has that I will be missing? (biological additives I might need?)
2. Will PH be different? How so?
3. Should I amend the mixture?
4. If I amend with say, guano, should I adjust how I feed?
5. Would vermiculite be a good thing to add or do I want to keep drainage fast to feed more?
6. Should I be thinking more like a hydro grower? (I am used to that, done it for years)

Any help is welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[Fred]

I'd like to help but my 2yr old won't let me... haha :) I'll be back.

fred

 

[Buddy Flowers]

1. Is there stuff that soil has that I will be missing? (biological additives I might need?)
2. Will PH be different? How so? pH for soil can vary due to natural buffers. for soilless you want to maintain the same pH
3. Should I amend the mixture? if you feed with compost tea once a week it's not necessary
4. If I amend with say, guano, should I adjust how I feed? yes because you are increasing your ppms by adding guano
5. Would vermiculite be a good thing to add or do I want to keep drainage fast to feed more? most people use soilless for quick drainage but you can add what you want
6. Should I be thinking more like a hydro grower? (I am used to that, done it for years)
yes

have fun!

 

[Buddy Flowers]

1) AACT should take care of anything mssing

 

[Muddy Waters]

I also used to mix my own soil but within the past year have gone to an amended soil less mix. I'm now using 2/3 Pro-Mix bx and 1/3 worm castings. I add some additional perlite for the worm castings, Myco Maximum for root stimulation, epson salts and bone meal. I run my pH at 6.2, a little lower than a pure soil mixture. If the pH is too high I add some additional sphagnum peat moss to lower it. I feed either Better-Gro or Fox Farms nutrients, the Better-Gro at half strength or the FF at full strength. I'm growing autos and have noticed some P deficiency in the last weeks of flowering so will now be adding Bloombastic to compensate.

Pro-Mix by itself is considered a soil less mixture, basically sphagnum peat moss and perlite. If using it, or something like it, without any amendments, then yes, think hydro.

Vermiculite is good but I prefer perlite. I think it hold moisture better and does a better job of getting oxygen to the roots.

 

[Fred]

1. Yes. You will need to add stuff. I add Bio-Dynamic Compost to boost mineral content. It does't provide a food source as much as provides the tools the plant will need to use that food and helps build a soild foundation. I also add Hygrozyme and some Sweet at times. It just depends on your nutes etc. But you will need to add the goodies.

2. Not for me.

3. Thats a preference thing. You could use it to make some Super Soil or Even better use DJ Shorts mix. It's perfect for that recipe. All kinds of ammendments can be done. It would help If I knew what you were going to be using for nutes and stuff.

4. Depends on how much and what else your adding etc.

5. I would not add Vermiculite. If you want to drain faster then use chunky perilite.

6. Exactly. Pro-Mix is hydro. Just add minerals and additives. Then run some good nutes and you will be good to go.

 

[Fred]

Thats the ticket Buddy. Tea once a week! :rock

Replace my answer with this one. It's what I do.

 

[jack_ripa]

So, replace additives to the soil with a foliar feed and drench of aerated tea? I can do that.

2 more questions,
7. would adding perlite, thus feeding more, increase growth rates. In hydro, if I have a fast draining soil, depending on the plants ability to process, I am feeding more, thus growing faster.
8. do I need to flush or alternate feedings with water?

FYI, I am looking at Age Old nutrients and guano/worm casting teas. I am open to suggestions at this point though. I want a clean burning, good tasting, fast growing plant....but then don't we all?

 

[Fred]

I added more perilite thinking the same thing but didn't feel like it was beneficial. I use it straight out the bag and when the plants are on point they dry out plenty fast enough. I would Feed Water Feed Water....Sometimes during the first few weeks of flowering I feed feed feed.....:character0029:

To get the cleanest burning buds flush them two weeks before the end. Get the nutes out and fresh water in. It will also help tell your plants your ready for ripening.

fred

 

[Fred]

Check out Vermi-T for tea.

 

[jack_ripa]

So, 2 weeks flush in soiless with organic nutes? I would have thought a week max.

Thanks for the responses so far gang. THC is blazing this morning! :)

 

[Seamaiden]

A week is really all I would worry about in this situation, jack. Even less if you use a flushing agent like FloraKleen (even then, I'm not really sure how necessary that would be if you're 100% organic).

You need to add simple sugars to that mix to get great tasting buds, in my opinion. I use three different things, depending on what I have on hand and what I feel like--molasses, malted barley extract (I thin this stuff down, it's like glue otherwise)(it's for home beer brewing), and panela/pinocha/piloncillo. I'm sure you could also use jaggery, date and palm sugars, as they're typically not very processed and still in a relatively simple carbohydrate form. I honestly don't know *why* it makes the difference it does, but it does.

1tsp/gal every couple of feeds, even every feed if you so desire, and 1tsp/5gals during flush. Religiously.

 

[KAL EL]

Add perlite. Promix will get compacted with each watering, add perlite.

 

[jack_ripa]

A week is really all I would worry about in this situation, jack. Even less if you use a flushing agent like FloraKleen (even then, I'm not really sure how necessary that would be if you're 100% organic).

You need to add simple sugars to that mix to get great tasting buds, in my opinion. I use three different things, depending on what I have on hand and what I feel like--molasses, malted barley extract (I thin this stuff down, it's like glue otherwise)(it's for home beer brewing), and panela/pinocha/piloncillo. I'm sure you could also use jaggery, date and palm sugars, as they're typically not very processed and still in a relatively simple carbohydrate form. I honestly don't know *why* it makes the difference it does, but it does.

1tsp/gal every couple of feeds, even every feed if you so desire, and 1tsp/5gals during flush. Religiously.

Oh, I definitely add molasses. Thanks though...other options are good. I find that plants like variety as much as we do.

 

[jack_ripa]

Check out Vermi-T for tea.

Uh, wow! That makes me want to get out of growing pot and start making compost tea packages. SPENDY!

Thanks but I don't think our patients would like that cost passed on to them. I will continue brewing my own aerobic and anaerobic C teas as I have always done. If it aint broke...don't pay $70 for it!! lol:worried

 

[nouvellechef]

The mix below is what I currently use. I find it has the same growth rate as soiless or hydro applications. 1tb per gal of water of feed grade mollases every other feeding in veg and every watering in flower. Once you get to over 1g per watt, being able to recycle the mix after harvest. Obv, depending on killowatt charges. At .08 a killo the cost per oz passed to the patients for us is $25 a oz, $10 our production cost. No Ph'ing whole cycle. As far as soiless mixes, I keep it very simple. 5.8 PH and GH 3 part with Cal/mag. Thats it. Touch more on costs, but close whem buying the bulk containers. I find i get the same results from both, but the soil application is what I like because I dont ever have to PH for entire cycle. Just my opinion though. GL

The crucial part is each rooted clone gets dipped in innoculant before heading into the mix. Divide recipe as needed. Pot gets 50% or less depending on how heavy of feeder the strain is. In general the mix will push every one I have. The thing about organic uptake is the plant will only uptake what it wants. Somtimes they act like out of control teenagers, IE defiences, but the recovery time is nothing and the ship gets righted fast and sails hard to the end. Best of luck, hope that helps.

18cf organic soil
12lb's blood meal
10lb's bone meal
14 cups Dolomite lime
4lb's epsom
9lb's rock phosphate
5lb's Azomite
1c humic acid
6lb's kelp meal
3lb's green sand
50lb's castings
11lb's guano-P
5lb's Bio-tone

Water and cook in baby pool for 30 days. Mixing daily. Watch out. The volitization will occur an produce heavy ammonia. I will discuss using alfalfa and soybean meal down the road. Still in test stages, but so far lookong like it will dominate the blood meal with no ammonia takeover.

 

[Fred]

Uh, wow! That makes me want to get out of growing pot and start making compost tea packages. SPENDY!

Thanks but I don't think our patients would like that cost passed on to them. I will continue brewing my own aerobic and anaerobic C teas as I have always done. If it aint broke...don't pay $70 for it!! lol:worried

He Ha man. I hear ya. I don't use it either but I know it works wonders. I use Genesis compound and Tonic but Hell yeah if you have been making teas then You'll do fine pro-mix. I like the flavor of buds grown in pro-mix better then any other. It's just my taste. But then again I still like a two week flush. Probably cost me a little but the buds are faded lime color and yummy yummy.

Got me thinking....can I get the same results with only a week flush?? What do you all think.


I'm all about the sugars baby. I use Bio-Bizz molasses based nutes and still use molasses or sucanat with Sweet at the end.

Not trying to run away with your thread but I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about that.


Keeping patient cost to a minimum is important for sure but I wonder why the good organic grown buds don't cost more then chem grown anyway. It cost more to produce. Everthing else thats organic cost more. I guess thats why the market is flooded with over fertilized unflushed chemical filled buds that taste like crap. It pays more to do so.

Not trying to get off track too much. I just have to deal with this all the time. People demanding organics but don't want to pay more for them.

It sounds like you have the skills you'll need to get a successful harvest. Happy growing. I'll be looking for a thread if you get one going. Follow you on your first pro-mix run.. that would be cool.

fred

 

[nouvellechef]

He Ha man. I hear ya. I don't use it either but I know it works wonders. I use Genesis compound and Tonic but Hell yeah if you have been making teas then You'll do fine pro-mix. I like the flavor of buds grown in pro-mix better then any other. It's just my taste. But then again I still like a two week flush. Probably cost me a little but the buds are faded lime color and yummy yummy.

Got me thinking....can I get the same results with only a week flush?? What do you all think.


I'm all about the sugars baby. I use Bio-Bizz molasses based nutes and still use molasses or sucanat with Sweet at the end.

Not trying to run away with your thread but I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about that.


Keeping patient cost to a minimum is important for sure but I wonder why the good organic grown buds don't cost more then chem grown anyway. It cost more to produce. Everthing else thats organic cost more. I guess thats why the market is flooded with over fertilized unflushed chemical filled buds that taste like crap. It pays more to do so.

Not trying to get off track too much. I just have to deal with this all the time. People demanding organics but don't want to pay more for them.

It sounds like you have the skills you'll need to get a successful harvest. Happy growing. I'll be looking for a thread if you get one going. Follow you on your first pro-mix run.. that would be cool.

fred

Organics using ammendments only is signifigantly less than chem or bottled organic nutes. At a cost of .50 a lb or less for major components and recycling the mix, the cost is minimal for production rates. Each cycle for each room has 45 plants at a cost of about $75 to run them full cycle. Strain dependent, but generally 3.25 to 3.75 zips per site. No flush, ever.

 

[Fred]

Man thats true. I've using these expensive bottled products like Pura Vida and Bio-Bizz and comparing it to the cost of chems. Thats great be able to produce organic crops for such little money.

No flush ever? Water only method....?

 

[Seamaiden]

Well, think about how it's done in an OD soil situation. You can't really flush the entire earth, ya know? And in California we've got to be so water-conscious, even on a well I try to be very conscientious of water consumption. I *do* use water only for the most part (the OD girls are on drippers, no fertigation yet).