Starting a new room and could use some advice

stlth8814 · Feb 20, 2014

Hello all. As stated I'm ready to start a new personal mmj room after a couple years taking a break. I would like to do a sealed room this time and try to use some of my old equipment rather than buying to much new stuff. I have about a 14x8 space I could use in the garage and not interfere with the garage door opener (wife doesn't want the opener to stop working and it hangs down in the middle of the dam garage or id have more space). I have 2x1k and 1x600. A 4x8 tent and a couple of air cooled reflectors. I would like to have a harvest every 5 weeks or so and was thinking of putting 2 4x4 tables in under 1k each. Having the tent in the room with the 600 and some floros for the veg/clones/mom. I am hoping sucking in the air from the flower room that will be cooled by the ac into the tent will be good enough to avoid needing a second ac. I have a 10 week og so I figured every 5 weeks new plants could be going in and coming out of the flower area. Now I'm not sure what to do about electrical. I obviously need enough outlets that can handle the portable ac all the lights and misc fans etc that will be going. I was thinking of hiring an electrician and getting a sub panel but don't really want an inspector coming to the house. I have a 60 amp 220v connection in the garage for an old electric dryer and think that 60 amps is plenty for what I need but it is 220 and everything I have runs on 110. The 110 to the garage is 15 amp and the washer an dryer use it when it's on so adding anything to it would probably overload. Not really sure what to do here. Also worried a bit that the 4x8 tent will just fit in the 8 wide space it has and would be putting the vents with up against the drywall. Another question I have is that will venting the hot air from the ac and lights directly into the rest of the garage work? Even tho it is legal I need to be discreet and can't have a bunch of noise coming out of the garage because the neighbors will wonder what is that constant noise. Any help and advice from more experienced people is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Natural · Feb 20, 2014

If that dryer outlet is 4 prong..you're in business. If not it's still a good option especially if the panel is close by..a good electrician can re-wire using 4 wire..which can be used to provide any 120v you might need along with 240v by building a sub-panel. Are you running magnetic ballasts? If so open it up..most have the wiring option to use 240v.

stlth8814 · Feb 20, 2014

Hopefully this picture works. It's one of these connections. I do have magnetic ballasts for the 1kS. The 600 is digi. The main panel is all the way on the other side of the house. Almost as far away as it can get from the dryer socket. Do you think he can rewire this into a sub panel close by that can run everything without a permit

Natural · Feb 20, 2014

stlth8814 said:
Hopefully this picture works. It's one of these connections. I do have magnetic ballasts for the 1kS. The 600 is digi. The main panel is all the way on the other side of the house. Almost as far away as it can get from the dryer socket. Do you think he can rewire this into a sub panel close by that can run everything without a permit

Cool it's a 4 prong...if you shut off the breaker you can look inside and see a red a black a white and a green(or copper ground).
It really depends on the electrician, what he will do without a permit. I know lots of them who have licenses that will do work on the sly without a permit. It helps to have a friendly relationship already built..but it never hurts to ask. Lots of trades hurting for side work. I know guys who will install panels live that have edison keys and will pull out the meter.

If it were me though, I would just have a custom load center made that has all the circuits that you need. It would operate your 2 1K's @ 240v with a 120v relay. All the receptacles on circuits dedicated to each appliance..so you know your limits with each circuit. I know the guy @ nowirenuts.com does custom builds for 4 prong only..as most electricians should be able. The whole load center/sub-panel just plugs into your 60 amp receptacle with the proper plug.

stlth8814 · Feb 20, 2014

Ok thanks man. I do know a gc that I used to do work for. I may just hit him up and ask for some help. Don't want him to know what the room is for cause he's pretty straight and narrow so will have to have some ideas (excuses) ready incase he stars asking why I need such a system for such a small room. Thanks again for the electrical advice. Maybe he'll have some ideas on how I can make the room a bit bigger too without having to mess with the darn garage door opener.

Tank333 · Feb 20, 2014

Dude, it's super simple to pick up a small breaker panel at Lowes and set up your wiring from that. I think that there are even small ones that specifically take a 60 Amp load. Pull that dryer plug off the wires, and feed em into your new sub-panel. Now you can split that 60 amps into different circuits for your lights, ac's and fans. Do it all yourself and save the money you would pay that electrician

stlth8814 · Feb 20, 2014

The dryer socket is coming off the wall and I only see 2 big wires going to it a black and a white and a bare copper wire that broke off. I'll attach a pic. I'm not opposed to trying electrical. I'm just a ill nervous about it as I have no experience whatsoever with it and want it to be safe and not burn down the house. There is only 1 circuit spot left on my main 200 amp panel as well so there's not much room left to add anything to it. Hoping I can make this old dryer socket/ wiring work somehow

Natural · Feb 20, 2014

That's not very promising..you could wire anything 240v from it..but I'm afraid you'll have to have it re-wired to get the 120v out of it. Have your buddy look at it..he can make a new run from your panel via your basement or attic. At the most only making several small holes in the walls if any. Cost of wire and labor + sub.

Tank333 · Feb 20, 2014

Natural said:
That's not very promising..you could wire anything 240v from it..but I'm afraid you'll have to have it re-wired to get the 120v out of it. Have your buddy look at it..he can make a new run from your panel via your basement or attic. At the most only making several small holes in the walls if any. Cost of wire and labor + sub.

This is so not necessary. Take those wires and feed them into a new sub-panel. Something like this:

Then, get four half-space 20 amp breakers. Use two for your two 120 circuits (fans on one, AC on the other. Then use the other two for a two-pole 240 circuit to run your lights at a lower amperage (thus saving you on available amperage).

If you already have those lines coming to you from the box there's no reason to pay for more wire to run through your basement. Wiring up a sub-panel from that will be EASY. You plug the white and black leads into the main lugs on the box. Then feed the bare wire to the ground posts. Now your box it ready to have the plug wires fed into it. Set up your 120 plugs and your 240 plugs where you need em, and neatly run the wires into the box. On the 120 circuits, put the black wire into the breaker and the white and bare wires into the ground posts. On the 240 circuits, put the black in the top breaker and the white in the bottom breaker, and the bare wire into the ground posts. It really is THAT simple. Well, that and you'll need to wire up the 120 and 240 outlets too. But that's WAY simple stuff you can google a youtube vid for...

stlth8814 · Feb 20, 2014

That does sound really simple. Thanks for the step by step. So what gauge wire should I run from those lines coming out the wall to the spot where I will put the panel. I'm assuming I can just make the connections with some wire nuts or something right. I had no idea I could turn that old dryer socket into what I needed. Thanks so much man! I shall shut off the power and try this tomarrow after I get some supplies

Tank333 · Feb 20, 2014

Well, to start with, double-check that the lines are the proper gauge for 60 amps. I'm not sure what that would need to be, but google in your friend when it comes to that. ;) lol.

You can take the plug off and connect with wire nuts, you're right. I personally would enclose the connection in a junction box, like this one:

That will let you extend the line to wherever you need the box to go.

Now, when you get your breaker box, make sure to get a brand that accepts half-pole breakers. Otherwise you will need a total of four available slots.

madmaster420 · Feb 20, 2014

stlth8814 said:
That does sound really simple. Thanks for the step by step. So what gauge wire should I run from those lines coming out the wall to the spot where I will put the panel. I'm assuming I can just make the connections with some wire nuts or something right. I had no idea I could turn that old dryer socket into what I needed. Thanks so much man! I shall shut off the power and try this tomarrow after I get some supplies

Just got a friend to help with the wiring of subs - no permits needed for any of it - make sure your electric is legit! Fires suck

Tank333 · Feb 20, 2014

madmaster420 said:
Just got a friend to help with the wiring of subs - no permits needed for any of it - make sure your electric is legit! Fires suck

That's the truth, man! Check and double check your wires and connections. If you're not sure, ask us or google it. Gotta be safe with that shit!

madmaster420 · Feb 20, 2014

The person doing the electric DOES NOT have to be a certified electrician. He just has to know what the hell he's doing. If you'd trust the guy with your kids then let him wire you up. If not...my plants are like my chillun'

stlth8814 · Feb 21, 2014

Update. Friend is gonna come out and see what he can do for me. I'll let him know the ideas I had( well u had) and see if he can get me something safe set up. Maybe even make the room a bit bigger than I had anticipated. Which would be great. You guys have been great with the fast responses and info. I'll post a pic when it's all done. I had another question that may not belong in this thread but since it's going I will ask. I have 2 friends also ca mmj patients. One with tumors who really needs medicine. I was wondering the law about how I can grow his for him here since he lives in a very small area and can't grow their own I'm not his caregiver by ca law standards because he gets around ok for a guy with tumors and a his roommate missing part of his foot. Does anyone know if we could be a 4 man collective without having to be a business like so many so cal collectives. He just can't garden at his house and if I'm allowed would love to be able to help out some dear medically ill friends the info on the net is so vague I'm not really sure.

stlth8814 · Feb 21, 2014

Also another question. Srry if I'm bugging. I was wondering if anyone had a good timer/ auto watering option that is inexpensive. Something that can water the 4x4 table in the veg tent and water the 2 4x4 tables in the flower room simultaneous for about 15 sec a day. It's not ideal but I have to go away for 5 days a a time sometimes and need to keep the thirty girls hydrated. They will all have thier own reservoir so there not getting the same nutes Since it is dtw I will have a big container to collect the run off ( don't want to come home to a flooded room). The hydro guy had a timer but it was like 130$ and he said it will water 2 times a day in the veg room cause it's a 12 hr cycle. Don't want to over water and I thought that was a lot for a timer. Anyone know a cheaper option. Maybe hd or lowes that can do what I need

Tank333 · Feb 21, 2014

Read this thread: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/grow-room-watchdog.60144/

It's got exactly what you need, for the watering issues that is. The whole room setup with driplines will cost like $50-75.

Natural · Feb 22, 2014

Tank333 said:
This is so not necessary. Take those wires and feed them into a new sub-panel. Something like this:

Then, get four half-space 20 amp breakers. Use two for your two 120 circuits (fans on one, AC on the other. Then use the other two for a two-pole 240 circuit to run your lights at a lower amperage (thus saving you on available amperage).

If you already have those lines coming to you from the box there's no reason to pay for more wire to run through your basement. Wiring up a sub-panel from that will be EASY. You plug the white and black leads into the main lugs on the box. Then feed the bare wire to the ground posts. Now your box it ready to have the plug wires fed into it. Set up your 120 plugs and your 240 plugs where you need em, and neatly run the wires into the box. On the 120 circuits, put the black wire into the breaker and the white and bare wires into the ground posts. On the 240 circuits, put the black in the top breaker and the white in the bottom breaker, and the bare wire into the ground posts. It really is THAT simple. Well, that and you'll need to wire up the 120 and 240 outlets too. But that's WAY simple stuff you can google a youtube vid for...

According to code..ground and neutral cannot be bonded in a sub...only in the main panel where the ground is an actual earth ground. Seeing he has only 2 hots and a ground..I think running new 4 wire would be safer.

Natural · Feb 22, 2014

@ stlth8814 The most worldly advice that I can give you is to have that subpanel circuit put in the right way. All new 240v work requires 4 wire. Once you have that new line run..the possible combos of circuits in that 60 amp sub will be great. 60 Amps is a huge circuit..if it was installed to run a dryer, it is over-kill. I'm curious why they have that in your garage..perhaps an oven or kiln or maybe some type of shop equipment that was being used. Putting a 4 wire receptacle on a 3 wire circuit is not the correct way..they should have changed the whip of the appliance..as you can see it matters for the next guy..or one who doesn't know any better. If it were me..I would spend the extra dough to upgrade your old 60 amp breaker as well, as it is probably an older outdated model. Once and done as they say.
Also, it's retrospect, but if I may..try and buy your equipment that runs 240v or at least 120/240. This will give you more opportunity to expand in the future...e.g. split ac, multiple lights. Even so..get your electrical straight first and foremost.

stlth8814 · Feb 22, 2014

Hey

Natural said:
@ stlth8814 The most worldly advice that I can give you is to have that subpanel circuit put in the right way. All new 240v work requires 4 wire. Once you have that new line run..the possible combos of circuits in that 60 amp sub will be great. 60 Amps is a huge circuit..if it was installed to run a dryer, it is over-kill. I'm curious why they have that in your garage..perhaps an oven or kiln or maybe some type of shop equipment that was being used. Putting a 4 wire receptacle on a 3 wire circuit is not the correct way..they should have changed the whip of the appliance..as you can see it matters for the next guy..or one who doesn't know any better. If it were me..I would spend the extra dough to upgrade your old 60 amp breaker as well, as it is probably an older outdated model. Once and done as they say.
Also, it's retrospect, but if I may..try and buy your equipment that runs 240v or at least 120/240. This will give you more opportunity to expand in the future...e.g. split ac, multiple lights. Even so..get your electrical straight first and foremost.

hey natural. Thanks for the advice man. I had my friend come out today and check it out. He said he can do all the work I needed. Including a work Around the garage door opener increasing my space from 14x8 to 14x12. After reading your post I must agree it's better to be safe than sorry especially with electrical. Since he's giving me a killer deal for the work I think I will just have him wore it to 4 wire. Then if it ever does need an inspection I won't have to shell out extra cash later. I called him and left a message to price it for me to replace that 75ft of 3 wire to 4 wire. Hopefully it's not too bad. Ill ask him to change out the circuit breaker too since it looks to be at least 15 yes old. It's just a simple 2 in 1 breaker at 30amps each. So hopefully those are cheap too. It turns out the 2 ballasts I have from sunlight supply automatically run 120 or 240 so I lucked out on that aspect. Saving me 10 amps on the circuit. Thanks for all the info guys. Will keep you updated. If you have and more advice feel free to post. Knowledge is power. And free knowledge is the gift that keeps on giving.

Starting a new room and could use some advice

Starting a new room and could use some advice

stlth8814

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Starting a new room and could use some advice

Starting a new room and could use some advice

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