Stop Chronic Overfeeding, and some tips with canna coco

[DowNwithDirT]

Can I come in and add? muahahah....

Calmag is not needed with RO....I only use calplex and never exceed 5ml/g in bloom...and I cut it out by wk6. I also never precharge coco and use it straight- no cut.

No need for run off....that leads to other issues. Again as you mentioned Drip Clean for the win if using chems in coco, but I never have run off...not even when flushing. If there is no salt build up, there is no need for run off. Learning how much your plants drink a day leads to even less over feeding, less use of nutrients, and more rapid root growth due to proper wet/dry cycles.

Agreed, no extra additives are necessarily needed...only necessesities i find are, humics/fulvics/aminos and kelp. I add a PK boost and play with sulfur levels as I choose. Unless working a bio field even carbs aren't needed as much (yes ive done side by sides) and gatorade works fine when needed (thanks Obs!).

and my secret coco tip for the day....pH to 6.0...just sayin ;)

and lastly....organic coco for the super win and ease, fuckin ronco style- "set it and forget it."

ya buddy come hang with me in here.

haha
first off. good call on the calplex...I would be following that but I use blumats these days and that ish can NOT sit for too long.
Leading me to calimagic...which has the highest calcium level of any product I can find, is stable and add's little nitrogen.
so....there ya go on that...

second....run off is only neccesarry at transplant in my opinion. I should have been more clear about that. You are absolutely correct. But I do think 30% at transplant is a good rule of thumb, especially if your not washing coco or anything. I find that some smaller particulate washes out with only a gallon or so of run off. This is the only place I'm having issues anymore...transplanting into large containers.

Gonna let mine rise to ph6 and see what I notice...seeing as everything else is dialed, this can be my new testable variable.
Pk boosts are necesarry, and soluble seaweed or kelp can be a great addition at early flower to stop stretch!!!good call..

overall honestly...I don't think much else is needed. Quit using fulvic/humiscs but eventually will be looking for what limiting variables are left.

Been hard a work dialing shit.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

I did.

Well IMVHO....there is no such thing.....unless you use a really high dose.
If it doesn't burn my skin its going to be fine.

 

[Venom818]

I was using 4ml of calimagic and as soon as i dropped it i saw some cal-mag issues.same with calplex maybe im doing something wrong but when i switch from calmag-plus to calplex i saw a cal-mag def right away

 

[DowNwithDirT]

I never stated any of what you stated is NOT true. Everyone has a different room strain, mix of coco , enviroment etc. I used the words MAY, because everyone MAY have difference results.

Good for you. What works well for you may not work well for someone else. Is the experience of others that understand overfeeding.

Cmon, No way one grower can grown every strain out there and take into consideration all the factors. I am no way attacking your statements, just sharing....

This is my experience in multiple environment, at different locations, with different strains.

When you have a 100 day tang haze and a 56 day white slap both eating the same thing....things click.....
Only difference is the tang needs to eat for 3 more weeks than the other.

They MAY think they aren't being overfeed but I'd bet 8/10 growers here would diagnose overfeeding as a deficiency or underfeeding.....for real.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

I was using 4ml of calimagic and as soon as i dropped it i saw some cal-mag issues.same with calplex maybe im doing something wrong but when i switch from calmag-plus to calplex i saw a cal-mag def right away

with canna?

fwiw I have had to completely rethink what I thought were deficiencies vs overfeeding vs calcium problems vs magnesium problems.....
I have found the internet to be nothing but a problem for me when it comes to diagnosing nutrient problems.

 

[true grit]

Yeah i wasn't playing with the aminos as much, added and definitely shortened flowering times. Humics/Fulvics were definitely needed when i went full organic to aide in uptake in an inert substrate. With chems wasn't as big a deal just opened up ph uptake ranges and lessened any issues.

Yeah i honestly wouldnt know with the calplex since i just water beds or large containers and don't have any continuous flow systems. Does it gunk up or what?

Upping the pH slightly seemed to eliminate any minor micro uptake issues, just little inconsistencies in some plants...raised the pH, eliminated those issues on finicky plants and works fine with the rest that arent as picky. From what i hear OG's seem to prefer a slightly higher pH, never had a problem but run at 6.0 with no issues.

will say i am one of the hardcore folks that says not many of these cocos really necessitate washing. i use mostly canna coco at this point but have used the works and never pre-washed and have never seen the issues anyone complains about (except for botanicare, just didn't like it). generally i attribute those issues to overwatering or overfeeding right off the bat....just dont do it. LOL.

 

[true grit]

I was using 4ml of calimagic and as soon as i dropped it i saw some cal-mag issues.same with calplex maybe im doing something wrong but when i switch from calmag-plus to calplex i saw a cal-mag def right away

Gotta say homie, i never saw a problem from the get go. Makes me wonder whats different in the regimen. I used calplex only with dirt/coco, the Heavy 16 and AN Connie....all with no issues. All of those have plenty of mag in the base. Think i topped out at 6ml/g when using Connie, was around 5ml/g with H16. Which you using right now?

 

[DowNwithDirT]

Yeah i wasn't playing with the aminos as much, added and definitely shortened flowering times. Humics/Fulvics were definitely needed when i went full organic to aide in uptake in an inert substrate. With chems wasn't as big a deal just opened up ph uptake ranges and lessened any issues.

Yeah i honestly wouldnt know with the calplex since i just water beds or large containers and don't have any continuous flow systems. Does it gunk up or what?

Upping the pH slightly seemed to eliminate any minor micro uptake issues, just little inconsistencies in some plants...raised the pH, eliminated those issues on finicky plants and works fine with the rest that arent as picky. From what i hear OG's seem to prefer a slightly higher pH, never had a problem but run at 6.0 with no issues.

will say i am one of the hardcore folks that says not many of these cocos really necessitate washing. i use mostly canna coco at this point but have used the works and never pre-washed and have never seen the issues anyone complains about (except for botanicare, just didn't like it). generally i attribute those issues to overwatering or overfeeding right off the bat....just dont do it. LOL.

good call thanks for the input....
blumats go off a elevated rez....or gravity feed so there is already a lack of pressure and no water circulation...I have to keep everything in the rez spic and span....One of the many reasons I stopped using additives. The less there is in there the longer I can go without taking the rez down and scrubbing it out.

good call on the ph of 6. I know exactly what your talking about....will do. and I bet they shine.

I've never had leaves at wk 4 that are still praying to the high heavens so much.

 

[Venom818]

with canna?

fwiw I have had to completely rethink what I thought were deficiencies vs overfeeding vs calcium problems vs magnesium problems.....
I have found the internet to be nothing but a problem for me when it comes to diagnosing nutrient problems.

its def cal or mag maybe need to run some test to find out for sure not over feeding at all i think i maxed out at 800 this run been doing some reading on the low feeding bro.

Gotta say homie, i never saw a problem from the get go. Makes me wonder whats different in the regimen. I used calplex only with dirt/coco, the Heavy 16 and AN Connie....all with no issues. All of those have plenty of mag in the base. Think i topped out at 6ml/g when using Connie, was around 5ml/g with H16. Which you using right now?

connie but i topped out at 3-4ml and 4ml of cali magic as soon as i switched to calplex there they were bro my perfect leaves tarnished LOL

 

[DowNwithDirT]

4 ml of calimagic puts me up in 300ppm range....extreme overdose...note that I wouldn't be able to tell that it wasn't a difficiency, or was overfeeding just on the plant.

We are shooting for around 150 ppm of calcium total!!!! that includes whats already in your solution.

mathhhh.

 

[true grit]

So you were using both? and just dropped one? Or switched mid bloom? I'm lost, but you shouldn't need calmag. lol. If i dont use it in coco with RO and havent for about 2 yrs now, trust me- im not doing anything magic. lol. It was Growmaster who got me to give up calmag. And from what Ive been able to discern, excess mag causes what most consider calmag deficiencies. Once i dropped mag and amount of cal, i no longer EVER had "calmag" issues. And anytime i've had calcium issues since (only in veg) it has been because of other problems- excess water or lack of hydration.

 

[Venom818]

4 ml of calimagic puts me up in 300ppm range....extreme overdose...note that I wouldn't be able to tell that it wasn't a difficiency, or was overfeeding just on the plant.

We are shooting for around 150 ppm of calcium total!!!! that includes whats already in your solution.

mathhhh.

maybe it was a overdose but never saw the def till i dropped it

 

[Venom818]

So you were using both? and just dropped one? Or switched mid bloom? I'm lost, but you shouldn't need calmag. lol. If i dont use it in coco with RO and havent for about 2 yrs now, trust me- im not doing anything magic. lol. It was Growmaster who got me to give up calmag. And from what Ive been able to discern, excess mag causes what most consider calmag deficiencies. Once i dropped mag and amount of cal, i no longer EVER had "calmag" issues. And anytime i've had calcium issues since (only in veg) it has been because of other problems- excess water or lack of hydration.

i started with calimagic but like to switch to calplex because it has no n but when i did maybe 2-4 days later there were the cal or mag def.

 

[true grit]

Maybe you have em trained to be excess calmag whores ;) lol.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

that seems like a bad idea...fwiw that n is very insignifigant.....you went from non organic to organic.

Your not getting that much N....again do the math....calimagic is a 1-0-0

110 ppm of calimagic = 75 ppm calcium, 15 ppm nitrogen and 20 ppm of magnesium

I see no problem with this ratio!

110 ppm of calmag+ however = 50 ppm calcium, 35 ppm nitrogen and 20 ppm of magnesium

this is problematic, as the calcium to nitrogen to magnesium are way off. Calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate.......meh

 

[Venom818]

Maybe you have em trained to be excess calmag whores ;) lol.

lol maybe but any less and here come the def.

that seems like a bad idea...fwiw that n is very insignifigant.....you went from non organic to organic.

Your not getting that much N....again do the math....calimagic is a 1-0-0

110 ppm of calimagic = 75 ppm calcium, 15 ppm nitrogen and 20 ppm of magnesium

I see no problem with this ratio!

110 ppm of calmag+ however = 50 ppm calcium, 35 ppm nitrogen and 20 ppm of magnesium

this is problematic, as the calcium to nitrogen to magnesium are way off. Calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate.......meh

are they way off at 4ml or less cause any less and i see def. Im not saying your wrong im just saying it doesnt seem to work for me.


what kind of coco do you use bro ? and are u in tap or RO ?

 

[Resinable]

Some thoughts and experiences:

I used Canna base nuts for coco and had major cal mag deficiencies; supplemented with Magical and my probs cleared up. In my opinion Canna base nuts are one of the biggest rip offs of any base nuts out there. If you are using liquid nuts H&G aqua flakes are better and much cheaper. Still had too use Magical with Aqua Flakes.

Now using Jacks with cal nit and epsoms in coco = no deficiencies.

I think the absorption of cal in particular might be a bit more complicated chemically than just figuring out the ppms. I have read that calcium carbonate, for instance, is not a very available form of calcium but with the right chelator like DPTA in CaliMagic it can be absorbed. Magical uses calcium nitrate not carbonate, trade off is more N. Botanicare uses EDTA which I have heard is inferior, which might explain the lack of good results I have had with it. Also these products are probably most effective at different ph ranges. Calplex has no iron and appears to be just soluble calcium carbonate which might explain why it is not helping for some.

Trail and error backed by educated guesses can sometimes be more practical than figuring out exactly what is happening on a chemical level.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

Trail and error backed by educated guesses can sometimes be more practical than figuring out exactly what is happening on a chemical level.

ding ding ding.
That's where I'm at......

good post....

lol maybe but any less and here come the def.




are they way off at 4ml or less cause any less and i see def. Im not saying your wrong im just saying it doesnt seem to work for me.


what kind of coco do you use bro ? and are u in tap or RO ?

canna coco, ro water. and I know that after I overdose with cal it takes a while for them to come out of it and I get what looks like def.....rusting spots on my leaves, which is def burning not def.

I'll get pics tonight hopefully. I'm at day 24.

 

[true grit]

IMO it comes down to regimen- I use RO, canna coco (any coco), never pre wash never precharge so if anyone should be having cal issues it should be me right? Nope. I have a consistent reggie that proved itself time and again. The big switch for me will be finding a new plain calcium product now that calplex has been discontinued (hopefully mad farmer cal). My concern was may overdose since I started adding Epsom salts this last run to change sulfur levels/terpene content. So far so good but able to use at a minimal and see some terpene change.

Basically saying keeping it simple is the issue, variables such as watering/ph consistency/etc are what are causing the uptake issues.

It funny basically all this is boiling back to Obs laying it down to everyone that KISS is the way. Lol

 

[DowNwithDirT]

I still think you'd be better off using calimagic...the ratio is ideal....and if you are adding epsom then just drop that ish and go back to a ca mg formula...as resinable stated it has dpta...so I guess if that is an issue you can't.

Gritty are you using canna? wasn't clear on that.