Stop Chronic Overfeeding, and some tips with canna coco

kushtrees · May 19, 2012

Calculated ppms rarely equal tested EC/ ppms, I'm pretty sure calculating the EC from bottles is a little more complicated. Canna stats is best for finding a good ratio and then diluting to the correct EC.

kushtrees · May 19, 2012

Also I don't understand how you are getting higher P ppms than K ppms with a bottle npk of 5-4-3. What a strange ratio

deep buddy · May 19, 2012

i have run canna nutes on pure canna coco. i never went above 1.7 max ec with .1 being from my tap and ususally .4 ec of mineral matrix(for cal and ph buffer) a lil mgs04 maybe.2 ec. used boost as foliar only same w/ rhizo. pk 13/14 at 2ml a gal for wks 3,4,5. i did have runoff 5-10% each irrigation and weekly flush w/ 1/3 strength nutes and fulvic.

very intersting about your mediums ec. the only thing i wonder is maybe the delivery system the blumats and the slow capillary action, just a thought.

but im onto greener pastures, mixin my own salts, very lucky to have the tutelage of a very smart, motivated teacher.

this is a good thread, the flowers i grew with canna were excellent!

FurtherBus · May 20, 2012

Hey DWD, would love to see some pics

DowNwithDirT · May 20, 2012

hey furthur....Can't find my card reader for the life of me....Looking...

DowNwithDirT · May 20, 2012

kushtrees said:
Also I don't understand how you are getting higher P ppms than K ppms with a bottle npk of 5-4-3. What a strange ratio

because 4 is bigger than 3.......?

deacon1503 · May 20, 2012

I feel like im on an alternate path here. Since ive started growing ive always started wk1 at 1000ppm, then up 100ppm a week till wk6, then down 100 for a week, down a 100 for a week, then flush. In other terms, start at 2.0 EC, and up .2 a week. Always had good results i suppose.

Im mindful of deff and burn and adjust accordingly and now that im in coco, i check my run off every few feedings. I also have a avg watts/plant of 1111 so i always figured with the high light level they needed higher EC.

Shouldnt we just switch to EC on the constant?

Carl Sagan · May 20, 2012

DwD you're the man, thanks so much for posting that!

Could you show me your math real quick? I'm just trying to figure out how to do the calculation myself as I add cannazym and rhizotonic and eventually boost and pk13/14.

Not sure what that other dude was talking about, your figures were proportionally correct at 5-4-3

dankworth · May 20, 2012

DowNwithDirT said:
because 4 is bigger than 3.......?

hey guys, bottle NPK shows N, P2O5, and K20.
P2O5 is 43.6% P.
K2O is 83% K.
Bottle NPK is rounded like a motherfucker.

Case in point- CNS-17 3-1-2 is hella rounded off, it is far closer to a 4-1-3 when you look at actual ppms. Most jug nutes will not list exact ppms on the back, but that does.

If the true ratios are, in fact 5-4-3, that means that true elemental ppm ratios are like 5-1.744-2.5.
We should be mindful of the fact that P kills off bennies starting at 50 ppms according to what Cap was told. So we have to be careful in that regard.

Hope this is useful.

Carl Sagan · May 21, 2012

Great point! I was looking for that math to confirm, gotta calculate that oxygen outta there.

Thanks dank!

kushtrees · May 21, 2012

DwD I wasn't trying to be disrespectful or anything, I just wanted to point out that your calculations aren't consistent with anything I've ever seen. Im sure you did the math right, but it looked like you missed the conversion from P2O5 to P and K2O to K.

Personally, as dank worth pointed out, the elemental ppm ratio is 5-1.7-2.5. I find this ratio to be quite strange as most cannabis ratios I've heard are around 3-1-4, with some variations on media. I'm not saying canna doesn't work, as it obviously does, it's just different. Just goes to show how cannabis will respond to soo many different nute profiles

DowNwithDirT · May 21, 2012

Loving the discussion! Thanks everyone or the feedback. I am by no means offended. I did however overlook p and k conversion. I will go back and do the math over and hopefully correct that post.

The 5 1.74 2.5, juat seems out of wack because of the 5, it can be reduced by 1.74 to

2.9-1-1.5

5-5-5 can be the same as 15-15-15

This actually seems pretty good to me. It allows for the use of any booster at a high concentration. Kinda makes sense.

true grit · May 21, 2012

Im impressed by you guys' dedication to working the numbers! Even when I was all salt/chems i never checked ppms and unless something was fuckin up....just started at 1/2 recommended and worked up or down from there ha.

Resinable · May 21, 2012

the elemental ppm ratio is 5-1.7-2.5. I find this ratio to be quite strange as most cannabis ratios I've heard are around 3-1-4, with some variations on media.

I am going to hazard an educated guess and say that because coco holds and releases a good deal of K Canna coco nutrients have a lower amount of K (3-1-1.5). I think this is why some have commented that Jacks hydro and calnit combo at a 3:2 ratio (which I think is about 3-1-4) is too high in k for coco. However my plants in coco show no obvious deficiencies and seem to love Jack's.

DowNwithDirT · May 21, 2012

at 200 ppm I can not get my mothers to yellow a lower leaf at all. I would literally have to give them straight water for a week I think.

I've tried to see how low I can go and it seems that 50 ppm of nitrogen in veg cuts is just fine, as 100 ppm of nitrogen in flower is ideal as well.

kushtrees · May 21, 2012

DowNwithDirT said:
at 200 ppm I can not get my mothers to yellow a lower leaf at all. I would literally have to give them straight water for a week I think.

I've tried to see how low I can go and it seems that 50 ppm of nitrogen in veg cuts is just fine, as 100 ppm of nitrogen in flower is ideal as well.

I'm so going to try this I have some freshly rooted clones all ready to be messed around with haha. I've used canna coco for years now and have seen K def even with K heavy nutes such as HG aqua flakes, so I'm pretty amazed that canna would have that much K. I've always assumed cannazyme was what helped get the K to the plants because it breaks everything down so well.

I will say I do like the flexibility you can get with a bloom booster though, allows you to mess with the ratios more and it seems pk 13/14 has the ratio needed so looks like they really thought out their line

RollinEndough · May 21, 2012

I pour all of my nutrients into my homemade nuclear fission driven analysis system right when getting home from the grow shop. After being told in numerical format with accuracy down to the atoms present in the sample, I load the solution into a device that separates all of the chemical elements into their individual hoppers for dosing. Only from here can I feed my plants. They need .00000012213 MO, .0234875623948 Ma, .66666666 Ca, 123,000,432 N, 987,456,812 P, .3333 K for days 1-3 and I change the parameters .023 per second from on out. This and only this will get me healthy plants not fed a single Nitrogen more than they need, keeping my tips from burning.

dankworth · May 21, 2012

So I can't get the link right.

But if you google
"coco substrate and hydroponics" the second result I think, at the manicbotanix site, has a huge amount of information about the particulars of coco farming from a big kid science perspective. It taught me more than anything else about coco farming.

Hope this helps

Carl Sagan · May 21, 2012

Dankworth- that link is basically my new holy grail.

Thanks brotha!

dankworth · May 21, 2012

I have seen from the recommendations of others, as well as personal experience, that the N:K ratio will contribute heavily to the frost, density, and leafiness or lack thereof in coco mixes.
Dude you're welcome Carl Sagan. That site put me on the right track.

Stop Chronic Overfeeding, and some tips with canna coco

Stop Chronic Overfeeding, and some tips with canna coco

kushtrees

kushtrees

deep buddy

FurtherBus

DowNwithDirT

DowNwithDirT

deacon1503

Carl Sagan

dankworth

Carl Sagan

kushtrees

DowNwithDirT

true grit

Resinable

DowNwithDirT

kushtrees

RollinEndough

dankworth

Carl Sagan

dankworth

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