Stunted seedlings : toss or wait for a miracle ?

[alexanderAB]

Hey guys , so I am in a big trouble this the first time that type of issue is happening to me after 20+ years of growing , I'm like WTF ?
So I put my popped seeds on soil on the 20th of march , until there everything was fine , nice looking little buddies on the first week , then the nightmare began .....

As you can see this is a total nightmare look at the red stem for all of them , normally at this stage they should be 5 to 7 times this size with at least 3 to 4 nodes compared to my many previous grow .
But one thing that hit me is the color of the dried runout look at this :

Is this normal ? Or there is def something wrong with the soil I bought from the store ?
What do you think guys ? Will they recover or this is a waste of time ?
For more info the soil is composed of sphagnum , green compost , and some plant materials PH is 6.8 , with nitrogen 280g/m3 + Phosphorus pentoxyde P2O5 140g/m3.

 

[GNick55]

waay to wet and they don’t need food yet,.

 

[alexanderAB]

@GNick55 what do you mean ? The nutes quantity cited above is what is already in the bag and I did not gave them any nutes yet just water at 6.5/6.6 ph. And my water schedule is the same as usual , as my previous grow .
Previous grow with same water schedule :

 

[juanderer]

Those are some fat leaves. Take it easy on your previously successful watering schedule.

They'll be fine.

 

[GNick55]

ok it’s fine the bag came with nutrients though watering and keeping it wet as it looks will release more nutrients than a wet/dry watering cycle,.
your last 2 flowering pics look fine but you can see light stress, a bit too much nitrogen? and a bit of watering too much,, all just slight

 

[climbit]

waay to wet and they don’t need food yet,.

Agreed

 

[climbit]

Hey guys , so I am in a big trouble this the first time that type of issue is happening to me after 20+ years of growing , I'm like WTF ?
So I put my popped seeds on soil on the 20th of march , until there everything was fine , nice looking little buddies on the first week , then the nightmare began .....
View attachment 2146008
View attachment 2146009
View attachment 2146011View attachment 2146012View attachment 2146015
View attachment 2146030



As you can see this is a total nightmare look at the red stem for all of them , normally at this stage they should be 5 to 7 times this size with at least 3 to 4 nodes compared to my many previous grow .
But one thing that hit me is the color of the dried runout look at this :


View attachment 2146016View attachment 2146022View attachment 2146023
Is this normal ? Or there is def something wrong with the soil I bought from the store ?
What do you think guys ? Will they recover or this is a waste of time ?
For more info the soil is composed of sphagnum , green compost , and some plant materials PH is 6.8 , with nitrogen 280g/m3 + Phosphorus pentoxyde P2O5 140g/m3.

That staining from the runout could be from the water you use. I’ll use an example for reference. When I de-chlorinate my water I let it sit longer than 24hrs stirring whenever possible. I notice when coming back, again whenever possible, to repeat this process the spoon I used has some “rainbow” like stains on it. This I believe is due to the additives/chlorines/chloramines in the water, as they are not totally evaporated by exposing them to open air.

Shouldn’t be a cause for major concern.

 

[climbit]

are you using synthetic fert?

 

[alexanderAB]

Hi guys ,
@GNick55 , yes I tend to get heavy on the nitrogen side especially on the stretch phase but as long as the plant is not showing burned tips too much or "witch claws" , and yes light stress was cause it was f'in cold where I live so I had to bring to leds ( Spider farmer G 5000 480 W )a little closer....... maybe too close , but the smoke was killer ( Fullgas strain ( Exodus cheese + Og sherbet cross ) , Chiquita Banana , and some Exodus cheese <--- capricious strain )

@climbit Absolutely no dude , I use Biobizz line nutes only Grow and Bloom , and I use the same PH down as usual cause the bottled water I gave them is at PH 7.4 , so I have to use some little PH down (plagron ph down ) a few drip bring the ph back to its right value (6.5/6.6) it's only the case when I use no food mixed with the water , when I need to feed I usually put the nute first around 1 to 1.5 mL per 1.5 L parts ( bottled water is 1.5 L capacity ) so you make quick maths 1.5ml of nutes on a 1.5 L bottle = 1mL of nutes per liter of water , and when they need less 1mL per 1.5 L = approx 0.66 mL of nutes per liter of water . I don't have an EC meter only a very good PH meter , but I think this will be my next purchase .

 

[cannafarmer420]

Hey guys , so I am in a big trouble this the first time that type of issue is happening to me after 20+ years of growing , I'm like WTF ?
So I put my popped seeds on soil on the 20th of march , until there everything was fine , nice looking little buddies on the first week , then the nightmare began .....
View attachment 2146008
View attachment 2146009
View attachment 2146011View attachment 2146012View attachment 2146015
View attachment 2146030



As you can see this is a total nightmare look at the red stem for all of them , normally at this stage they should be 5 to 7 times this size with at least 3 to 4 nodes compared to my many previous grow .
But one thing that hit me is the color of the dried runout look at this :


View attachment 2146016View attachment 2146022View attachment 2146023
Is this normal ? Or there is def something wrong with the soil I bought from the store ?
What do you think guys ? Will they recover or this is a waste of time ?
For more info the soil is composed of sphagnum , green compost , and some plant materials PH is 6.8 , with nitrogen 280g/m3 + Phosphorus pentoxyde P2O5 140g/m3.

I would add aeration, your soil looks devoid of that. Perlite, rice hulls whatever. Then restart those are shot unless that's all you've got seed wise then do your best

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

@alexanderAB - They look too wet to me, too. So, I agree with the others. I believe they can recover, and I'm curious about the environment. What's your temperature and RH or the VPD? How intense are you running the light?

 

[alexanderAB]

@cannafarmer , yeah dude I'm f'in depressed , they should be flipped 12/12 on the 20 th of april after a month , but they look toasted to me and I heavily suspect something wrong in the soil bag I bought usually it smells like cow dung or horse dung but this time the scent was not here at all more of a plastic chemical smell , I say this cause they are all in the same bad state with the same soil.

 

[alexanderAB]

@LoveGrowingIt Temps are around 24/25°c during day and 19/20°c during night , the RH is around 50 /55 % , about the led intensity I run it at 25/30% for the moment .

 

[alexanderAB]

Hey guys some news about my stuff , I found two things first one :

PH of the soil is off should be around 6.6/6.7 by watering with 6.5 ph'ed bottled water and secondo :

Yup guys you see what I see , the bag is toasted with fungus gnats larvae I'm pretty sure they made a good lunch with my roots causing a big part of the stress , gotta get some nematodes and mites quick before it becomes the jungle book .
The good news is my babies seems to recover slowly , let's say I can treat the fungus gnats , but guys do you know a good thing to drop the soil PH (I mean the soil itself ) cause it is way off what it was supposed to be, I knew the bag was fishy but the soil I got used to was out of stock so I took this one bag in a hurry.... And why the ph down from plagron is unstable . I mean I ph'ed a bottle two days ago with a few drips of acid around 6.6 , and two days after the ph of the water is back to normal 7.3 , really ?

 

[Gmix]

Hi guys ,
@GNick55 , yes I tend to get heavy on the nitrogen side especially on the stretch phase but as long as the plant is not showing burned tips too much or "witch claws" , and yes light stress was cause it was f'in cold where I live so I had to bring to leds ( Spider farmer G 5000 480 W )a little closer....... maybe too close , but the smoke was killer ( Fullgas strain ( Exodus cheese + Og sherbet cross ) , Chiquita Banana , and some Exodus cheese <--- capricious strain )

@climbit Absolutely no dude , I use Biobizz line nutes only Grow and Bloom , and I use the same PH down as usual cause the bottled water I gave them is at PH 7.4 , so I have to use some little PH down (plagron ph down ) a few drip bring the ph back to its right value (6.5/6.6) it's only the case when I use no food mixed with the water , when I need to feed I usually put the nute first around 1 to 1.5 mL per 1.5 L parts ( bottled water is 1.5 L capacity ) so you make quick maths 1.5ml of nutes on a 1.5 L bottle = 1mL of nutes per liter of water , and when they need less 1mL per 1.5 L = approx 0.66 mL of nutes per liter of water . I don't have an EC meter only a very good PH meter , but I think this will be my next purchase .

You intend to only add bio grow nothing else If that’s right you have absolutely no need to ph everything is organic and doesn’t need ph ing

you shouldn’t get a ph issue in a organic grow. Throw the meter away sell it or put it in a draw you don’t need it

nematodes will much the gnats up for breakfast; good choice

It’s not uncommon if you ph down water then let it sit for a day for the ph to raise again

Anyways as said you definitely don’t need to ph organic grows its waste of time and money

 

[GNick55]

Hey guys some news about my stuff , I found two things first one :
View attachment 2146969

PH of the soil is off should be around 6.6/6.7 by watering with 6.5 ph'ed bottled water and secondo :

View attachment 2146970
View attachment 2146971
View attachment 2146972
Yup guys you see what I see , the bag is toasted with fungus gnats larvae I'm pretty sure they made a good lunch with my roots causing a big part of the stress , gotta get some nematodes and mites quick before it becomes the jungle book .
The good news is my babies seems to recover slowly , let's say I can treat the fungus gnats , but guys do you know a good thing to drop the soil PH (I mean the soil itself ) cause it is way off what it was supposed to be, I knew the bag was fishy but the soil I got used to was out of stock so I took this one bag in a hurry.... And why the ph down from plagron is unstable . I mean I ph'ed a bottle two days ago with a few drips of acid around 6.6 , and two days after the ph of the water is back to normal 7.3 , really ?

when i’m buying soil etc i never bring into the house until ive washed the packaging with peroxide or isopropyl, give it a good cleaning,. if im just storing the bale than ill tape up any holes/rips in packaging also,.
got to keep in mind when at garden/grow stores is to wash and change cloths after before going into your grow area,,..
as far as any pest,. 50/50 water/isopropyl will kill all stages of any pest life and will do absolutely no harm to the plants,. usually has everything killed in one application, but good to give a couple over a few days,..
most pesticides/insecticides will only help in trying to maintain plant life while not killing all pest and in some cases it helps the pest populate faster,.. really just overpriced garbage, exactly like pharmaceuticals for humans,.
than there’s using insects to kill insects well if you want to dick around with that shit and waste time in how long doing so than wondering if it’s working while the days are passing,.
both uses of pesticides or insects just keeps the plant in a stressful state for too long,.
i personally will never use anything but isopropyl on my plants if needed,..

 

[alexanderAB]

@Gmix The bottled water I use is around 7.4 ph , as the water is quite mineralized (Ca²+/Mg²+ 75/26 , Na+/K 84/19 , Si0² /HCO3 26/473 (quite hard for HCO3 value ) So4²- /Cl- 63/33 N03-/ F- <2/1 <---- all values are in mg/L ) it is hard to drop the ph compared to another bottled water brand that will be less mineralized , just an example : I take the more mineralized water I put 10 drops of ph down , so the ph will drop from 7.4 to around 6.6 , now the case of the less mineralized water , if I do the same (10 drops ) the ph will literally goes below 6ph ( 5.8 /5.7 ) don't know if the is related to the amount of minerals but I suspect the heavy amount of HCO3 which is bicarbonate and I've read somewhere that it can neutralize the ph value , in my supermarket where I live, they sell some water for babies that is already at 6.6 ph , I used it alot in the past one of the best bottled water but expensive as hell . Do you think a High amount of bicarbonate in the water can block or mess with other minerals in the water ?

@GNick55 Yup, the bag I bought in an outdoor type of soil as I said above the indoor soil that I got use to , which has been pasteurized before ending up in the store , is devoid of any pest and has a lower ph 6.4 but as the temps tend to goes up quite a bit here , people bought a large amount of bag for them vegetables or fruits or to simply repot their indoor plants so i was f*cked up. But don't worry fungus gnats are a thing from the past history to me as I know how to wipe them completely from a crop , and guess what I found in my box this morning :

Time to wipe them all .

 

[Gmix]

I don’t use bottled water as my tap water is drinkable ( uk ) my ph comes out at 7.4 it could be higher and You still don’t need to ph in organics

I’ve never herd it asked before as in “Do you think a High amount of bicarbonate in the water can block or mess with other minerals in the water”

maybe someone else may know I suspect it might but heck that’s a guess and am not guessing when it comes to someone else’s grow

Good luck

 

[alexanderAB]

@Gmix " Bicarbonates can be taken up directly by the plant. Inside the plant they can block iron assimilation pathways, causing iron chlorosis despite the presence of iron in the plant tissue. Bicarbonates have an effect on plant roots that reduces their ability to take up nutrients.Bicarbonate can then neutralise the pH value. But if the pH value is already on the high side, too much HCO3 is undesirable. Your plants will be less able or unable to absorb a number of nutritional elements and the water turns green due to algae. Plants can even die."

 

[Newbgrower1]

when i’m buying soil etc i never bring into the house until ive washed the packaging with peroxide or isopropyl, give it a good cleaning,. if im just storing the bale than ill tape up any holes/rips in packaging also,.
got to keep in mind when at garden/grow stores is to wash and change cloths after before going into your grow area,,..
as far as any pest,. 50/50 water/isopropyl will kill all stages of any pest life and will do absolutely no harm to the plants,. usually has everything killed in one application, but good to give a couple over a few days,..
most pesticides/insecticides will only help in trying to maintain plant life while not killing all pest and in some cases it helps the pest populate faster,.. really just overpriced garbage, exactly like pharmaceuticals for humans,.
than there’s using insects to kill insects well if you want to dick around with that shit and waste time in how long doing so than wondering if it’s working while the days are passing,.
both uses of pesticides or insects just keeps the plant in a stressful state for too long,.
i personally will never use anything but isopropyl on my plants if needed,..

What % alcohol do you use?