Suggestions anyone.... Plants look like death!

[woodsmaneh]

I have the same issues when I start to flower and have had it happen to me 3 times. . The issue for me was low humidity 30%. I put a humidifier in and the issue went away. I put another 4 1000w in the same room and it is happening again so I ordered another 20 gal humidifier. I put an auto feed on the humidifier and forget it.

 

[Texas Kid]

Low humidity is a big one, I like 50%rh at a very minimum and my flower rooms run at abou 70% till the last two weeks of flower..I run veg rooms at 70-80% rh

Dial back the nutes a bit and then gradually ramp up and run half of what you believe is full stregth...

R/o water makes trouble shooting way easier in the long run..

Water temps are little high, 65-68 max is my sweatspot..

I like to veg 18 on 6 off, better root developement IMO and a more uniform developement between roots and canopy, not a fan of 20 or 24 hour veggin

No fans directly on the plants, only move the ambiant air indirectly

130 gallons? what size system do you have?

I only use EC numbers when the ppm excedes what my meter will read, conversions and sliding scales seem to work against me, so usually if my reading excededs 2000ppm I switch over to the ec scale but the simple fact that I have to use the EC scale means I have way to much nutes in the system already.

I have zero experience with DM so i can not really say, but lookin at it, it seems like your not using all the different ammendments required for a complete nutrient profile. I mean there is Gold range, Advance, One , and original just in the base nutes ...a ton of foliar feeds, and Add .27, Zone, Max, silica and potash in tank ammendments.....the foliars kick but not as critical in the big scheme of things but the additives are almost essential..I pretty much use everyone in one from or another from other manufactures, all are pretty much needed and since DM offers them as an ammendment my guess is that the base nutes are weak or devoid of some of those items.

4k with them lookin like that I would put the lights at the cieling or hibay them till the plants start to turn around

Tex

 

[Phaivor]

it looks like they have fertilizer overdose (that is what the CLAW curled down represents)

 

[UCHQ]

Get an RO as your beginning water is likely too mineral rich and convoluted to offer a good foundation for nutrition.

With plants that size you should be shooting for an EC of 0.2-0.3 (500 scale). Any deficiencies u feel ur seeing are caused by the plants inability to stay hydrated causing problems.

 

[phup]

UCHQ speaks the truth. Plants that big need to drink water not salts, keep your EC around .2-.3 to help them move water and grow roots. I've made this mistake in the past and Daniel was right about dropping the EC. Seriously. No higher then .3 and leave it there for a week until you see new healthy roots and then only bump it very slowly.

 

[St3ve]

I only use tap water and it comes out about the same ec as yours so I really don't think that's what it is. (yes you have different water than me but still)

If it was me, I would cut your nutes AT LEAST in half and see how that goes for a week. Then if they start coming back you can bump it up a little as you go.

When I put plants that small in to veg I always start them out MUCH MUCH lower. Practically straight tap. Heck I don't really even get that high until they are around 20"-24" and getting ready to flip.

 

[shakey]

I have the same issues when I start to flower and have had it happen to me 3 times. . The issue for me was low humidity 30%. I put a humidifier in and the issue went away. I put another 4 1000w in the same room and it is happening again so I ordered another 20 gal humidifier. I put an auto feed on the humidifier and forget it.

woodsmaneh
I had the same problem, lack of humidity at first, now I have it between 50-60% I didn't realize how important it was for this system.

 

[desertsquirrel]

In general large cities like chicago have excellent water treatment systems for hydroponics. Don't be so quick to buy an RO, you can obtain an elemental analysis from your water company free of charge. Often they are right on-line.

As for your problem, drop your ec to about .4 until you see them bounce back.

Also what are room conditions? water level? co2? etc.

also, this might help:

 

[shakey]

thanks

:bong2:

Low humidity is a big one, I like 50%rh at a very minimum and my flower rooms run at abou 70% till the last two weeks of flower..I run veg rooms at 70-80% rh

Ive got the humidty in check at 50% to 60%

Dial back the nutes a bit and then gradually ramp up and run half of what you believe is full stregth...

dropping nutes as we speak.. going down more than half..

R/o water makes trouble shooting way easier in the long run..

Im going to my LGS tomorrow.. to get a R/O filter then ill know exactly what i have going in..

Water temps are little high, 65-68 max is my sweatspot..

i set the chiller a few degrees cooler.

I like to veg 18 on 6 off, better root developement IMO and a more uniform developement between roots and canopy, not a fan of 20 or 24 hour veggin

im thinking about switching my timers to 18-6

No fans directly on the plants, only move the ambiant air indirectly

my fans are over my canopy, or blowing low to high in the room..

130 gallons? what size system do you have?

I have a double barrel XXL16- its the 13 gallon system..

I only use EC numbers when the ppm excedes what my meter will read, conversions and sliding scales seem to work against me, so usually if my reading excededs 2000ppm I switch over to the ec scale but the simple fact that I have to use the EC scale means I have way to much nutes in the system already.

I have zero experience with DM so i can not really say, but lookin at it, it seems like your not using all the different ammendments required for a complete nutrient profile. I mean there is Gold range, Advance, One , and original just in the base nutes ...a ton of foliar feeds, and Add .27, Zone, Max, silica and potash in tank ammendments.....the foliars kick but not as critical in the big scheme of things but the additives are almost essential..I pretty much use everyone in one from or another from other manufactures, all are pretty much needed and since DM offers them as an ammendment my guess is that the base nutes are weak or devoid of some of those items.

I dislike dutch master, had problems with it on my tables when i was running them and went back to GH but everyone seems to have good luck keeping it simple and blowing things up with dutch master!

4k with them lookin like that I would put the lights at the cieling or hibay them till the plants start to turn around

lights are at the ceiling... and i dimmed the ballast to 75%

Tex

 

[shakey]

it looks like they have fertilizer overdose (that is what the CLAW curled down represents)

I agree 100% correcting the problem now.. thanks

 

[shakey]

Get an RO as your beginning water is likely too mineral rich and convoluted to offer a good foundation for nutrition.

With plants that size you should be shooting for an EC of 0.2-0.3 (500 scale). Any deficiencies u feel ur seeing are caused by the plants inability to stay hydrated causing problems.

thanks HQ i never thought about inability to stay hydrated.. dropping ppms now

 

[shakey]

UCHQ speaks the truth. Plants that big need to drink water not salts, keep your EC around .2-.3 to help them move water and grow roots. I've made this mistake in the past and Daniel was right about dropping the EC. Seriously. No higher then .3 and leave it there for a week until you see new healthy roots and then only bump it very slowly.

its just hard for me to grasp that i need so little fertalizer..
Thanks

 

[shakey]

I only use tap water and it comes out about the same ec as yours so I really don't think that's what it is. (yes you have different water than me but still)

im still going to R/O water just so i know exactly whats going in to my mix..


If it was me, I would cut your nutes AT LEAST in half and see how that goes for a week. Then if they start coming back you can bump it up a little as you go.

im cutting fertalizer in more than half, im sure it will be a nice drink for my ladies..

When I put plants that small in to veg I always start them out MUCH MUCH lower. Practically straight tap. Heck I don't really even get that high until they are around 20"-24" and getting ready to flip.

im going to drop my EC down its going to be almost straight tap water, wish me luck!

 

[shakey]

:animbong:

In general large cities like chicago have excellent water treatment systems for hydroponics. Don't be so quick to buy an RO, you can obtain an elemental analysis from your water company free of charge. Often they are right on-line.

im going to get an R/O system so i know exactly whats going in to my mix..

As for your problem, drop your ec to about .4 until you see them bounce back.

im dropping EC as a type i want to go lower than .4 EC i was looking at .3 my tap water is .2 out of the faucet..

Also what are room conditions? water level? co2? etc.

room conditions 80F lights on 70F lights off

water level is 2" below net pot..

No co2 ATM.. i dont think it will healp them..

ill look at the link

Thanks..



also, this might help:

i

 

[phup]

1.Raise your lights high(4+ feet) if you haven't already
2. Warm Night times temps are good, but you could bring daytime down to 74-76 to help recovery. Internal leaf temp is high due to overfeeding, you want to help bring it down.
3. Foilar with plain water to help plant hydrate.
4. No Co2 for now is the right call.
5.Run .2 EC (Straight tap) for 24-36 hours. Nothing like a good flush to start over.
6.Bump to 0.3 for a 2-6 days until they start to perk up. (slowly lower lights after a few days)
7.Keep it there until you see them beginning to look hungry. Should start with leaves turning a little paler.
8.Now is the time to bump your EC to 0.4. Let it sit there for a few days and see how they respond. Alter your environment (co2, increased temp) if plants look happy.

I won't bring my plants past 0.6-0.7 EC in veg ever.

Keep reminding yourself to keep the EC down, its taken me a while to beat this lesson into my head, but its crucial. Good luck.

PS I think read in this post that you aren't running 18/6. If you aren't you should be.

 

[Phaivor]

1.Raise your lights high(4+ feet) if you haven't already
2. Warm Night times temps are good, but you could bring daytime down to 74-76 to help recovery. Internal leaf temp is high due to overfeeding, you want to help bring it down.
3. Foilar with plain water to help plant hydrate.
4. No Co2 for now is the right call.
5.Run .2 EC (Straight tap) for 24-36 hours. Nothing like a good flush to start over.
6.Bump to 0.3 for a 2-6 days until they start to perk up. (slowly lower lights after a few days)
7.Keep it there until you see them beginning to look hungry. Should start with leaves turning a little paler.
8.Now is the time to bump your EC to 0.4. Let it sit there for a few days and see how they respond. Alter your environment (co2, increased temp) if plants look happy.

I won't bring my plants past 0.6-0.7 EC in veg ever.

Keep reminding yourself to keep the EC down, its taken me a while to beat this lesson into my head, but its crucial. Good luck.

PS I think read in this post that you aren't running 18/6. If you aren't you should be.

good call Phup this should help :party0044:

 

[GeneticFreak]

My plants are struggling like this and its definately humidity related. My rooms been around 30% in the day and 60% at night. Last week they were in the low 20s. Temps are good and so are my nutes. Flushing for 24 hrs with ro and a little zone. This post has opened my eyes even more to the importance of keeping ALL things in check. Its my first uc run and its taken me some time to completely grasp the less is more concept.

 

[woodsmaneh]

Humidity is important no mater how you grow

woodsmaneh
I had the same problem, lack of humidity at first, now I have it between 50-60% I didn't realize how important it was for this system.

Humidity is important no mater how you grow, for some reason UC eat it up way faster than any out style of growing.

Humidity is key to the full development of your plants. The Stomata are the gas peddle for your plants and humidity is the gas. The level of humidity in your room dictates how open your stomata are, the higher the humidity say 70% they are wide open eating Co2 and that drives plant growth. Conversely low humidity 30% and they are almost closed and growth slows down. Here is some info on it

Carbon dioxide enters, while water and oxygen exit, through a leaf's stomata. Stomata control a trade-off for the plant: they allow carbon dioxide in, but they also let precious water escape.

Levels of carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere change over time — so at times when the atmosphere is carbon-dioxide-rich, plants can get away with having fewer stomata since each individual stoma will be able to bring in more carbon dioxide. During those high-carbon-dioxide times, plants with fewer stomata will have an advantage and will be common. On the other hand, when carbon dioxide levels are low, plants need many stomata in order to scrape together enough carbon dioxide to survive. During low-carbon-dioxide times, plants with more stomata will have an advantage and will be common.
Stomata of fossil plants can be used to directly estimate past carbon dioxide levels, and those carbon dioxide levels can then be used to make an indirect estimate of temperature. Typically (although there are exceptions to the rule), fossils with many stomata (low carbon dioxide) came from times of low global temperature, and fossils with few stomata (high carbon dioxide) came from times of high global temperatures.

Humidity plays a major role in plant growth, and it's effects are often underestimated or overlooked.
Plants breathe through tiny openings on the undersides of their leaves called stomata. Plants can (and do) open and close their stomata under certain conditions, for example if heat becomes excessive and causes a plant to start loosing more water than it can take up, the plant will close it's stomata to slow down the water loss.

Unfortunately, by closing the stomata and slowing evaporation the plant also has slowed down it's cooling mechanism. This causes heat to build up in the plant tissue, and in temperature too hot the plant actually cooks itself. It is important to understand the opening and closing of the stomata and how it, in turn, controls plant transpiration.
Plant transpiration is how plants breath. Plants do not have lungs, however, so when molecules of gas and water vapor are released from the stomata they tend to just hang there in the absence of any breeze. That is why it is so important to have box fans or oscillating fans in a garden to circulate the air (in addition to exhaust fans). These fans are actually like the plant's lungs, and without them the plants would have no way of moving fresh CO2 molecules into contact with their plant tissue. The plants would slowly choke on their own transpired gasses and water vapor.
As water evaporates from the surfaces of leaves, the surface tension of the water molecules tend to pull the next water molecule along behind it, up through the plant's veins. Water is pulled up through the plant stem, which is pulled from the plant's roots. This creates a negative water pressure in the root zone and allows the roots to suck moisture up out of the root zone like a straw. The process of water absorbing into the plant through the roots is known as osmosis
Which brings me back to humidity. Water vapor is humidity. As a plant transpires, the humidity immediately surrounding the leaves will become saturated with water vapor. Now, the entire plant transpiration cycle is controlled by evaporation. When gasses surrounding a leaf become saturated with water vapor (100% humidity), there is no place for the next molecule of water vapor to evaporate to.
The end result is that water vapor is not evaporating, so water is not being drawn up from the root zone...and neither are any nutrients. If nutrients are not being taken up, than developing fruits are not getting the food they need to be healthy. This is exactly why high humidity will cause blossom end rot in fruiting tomatoes just like a Calcium deficiency. It is another reason why it is so important to keep box fans and oscillating fans in the garden area to keep the air circulating.
So, evaporation controls plant transpiration. High temperatures and low humidity therefor both cause fast transpiration. Fast transpiration means your plants will be taking up and using lots of water (and nutrients). This is fine, unless you were feeding your plants strong to begin with. Your plants can only handle so much fertilizer within a specific period of time.
So if you now have warm temperatures, low humidity, and fast transpiration rates you may find your plants are using a little too much fertilizer a little too quickly. Leaf tip burn is usually a sign of this. Under these circumstances you can feed your plants with a weaker nutrient solution.
Or, if all other plant growth influencing factors are in their ideal ranges, you can try to maximize plant growth by adding Co2 (in which case you should experience heavy plant growth without showing any signs of stress or damage.

 

[UCCONFUSION]

Wrong. I'm amazed you guys don't know this. you wouldn't know if his ppm's are 700 or 500 unless he tells you what ppm meter he's running. There are two scales that convert to PPM. .5 and .7. Blue Lab combo meter runs .5, Hanna meter runs .7. This is EXTREMELY important to note. Next I've NEVER heard of anyone running straight tap water in UC. You MUST have a reverse osmosis filter and add cal mag. Also you should be running synthetic nutes, and you should be taking all the water out and flushing every two weeks to be safe. I would start your plants at 500ppm or less. You're operating a cigarette boat as opposed to a row boat(dirt).

 

[Buddy Hemphill]

Wrong. I'm amazed you guys don't know this. you wouldn't know if his ppm's are 700 or 500 unless he tells you what ppm meter he's running. There are two scales that convert to PPM. .5 and .7. Blue Lab combo meter runs .5, Hanna meter runs .7. This is EXTREMELY important to note. Next I've NEVER heard of anyone running straight tap water in UC. You MUST have a reverse osmosis filter and add cal mag. Also you should be running synthetic nutes, and you should be taking all the water out and flushing every two weeks to be safe. I would start your plants at 500ppm or less. You're operating a cigarette boat as opposed to a row boat(dirt).

Do you have any pics of your set up?