Skipo said:

I checked out a video on making your own lactobacillus serum. Good info, but it will take time to make that stuff...I just started a new grow with fox farm ocean forest (3 parts) to happy frog (1 part), bc a friend suggesting it as being a good out of the box organic soil mix. My question is I know there is food in there...Should I feed it anything besides ph’d water right now, or? I ordered some ogbiowar in the meantime to do an organic grow

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You dont need to feed with amended soils at first. Just do water for a month or so and i really advise using citric acid or vinegar for ph down in organic.

Bulldog420 said:

Never seen a guano 15+ in P...... care to share?

Bone meal is not soluble. A good reason why Monopotassium phosphate is a great booster.

Banana peels, really? I can't even imagine the work that would go in, and the number of bananas to feed an acre crop. I imagine you would have to break down the peels first, but how? What exactly is your method here?

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Why are you obsessed with numbers. Organics is not about those numbers. Thats a chemical farming thing. The npk value of an organic source is not an absolute value. It changes from source to source.

Cheaper and easier yes, chemicals are cheaper and easier and those are the only reasons i can think of to use them.

Lactobacilli breaks everything down. If you steam that bone meal first and feed it to lacto, i’m sure you will see results. Need to try that first to make claims, but really, i’m doing well with my bat guano.

As for banana peels, eat the banana, toss the peel into a bottle, add lacto and sugar wait for it to dissolve. Thats the only preperation. Or burn and utilize the ashes. In anycase, its a good booster.

Yea, like I thought. The banana thing isn't a viable option for 99% of farmers. Maybe the home back yard guy with 3 plants.....

Bone meal even with "lacto" will take a long time to break down into plant soluble nutrients. This is pretty common knowledge......

Chemistry in soil makes all the difference. I suggest you read books from leading agronomist such as William Albrect and Tiejens. All this number stuff will make sense once you comprehend farming a little better.

Everything in the soil comes down to two things, biology and chemistry. Good luck.

Bulldog420 said:

Yea, like I thought. The banana thing isn't a viable option for 99% of farmers. Maybe the home back yard guy with 3 plants.....

Bone meal even with "lacto" will take a long time to break down into plant soluble nutrients. This is pretty common knowledge......

Chemistry in soil makes all the difference. I suggest you read books from leading agronomist such as William Albrect and Tiejens. All this number stuff will make sense once you comprehend farming a little better.

Everything in the soil comes down to two things, biology and chemistry. Good luck.

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Totally backwards thinking. If that’s what you think fpe are you are the one who should be reading. By using enzymes, microbes, etc we are breaking down the nutrition inside of plants making some readily available.

To know which plants to use for what situation is all on you.

If this couldn’t be done large scale it would be irrelevant mostly but it’s been being used on farms for years as a way to not only save money but also use what’s near you to grow organically.

P can be had by roasting eggshells and leaving in vinegar for some time. It’s all there saved for anyone who wants to do the work. It is work, but not a lot. Biggest part is the know how.
https://alohagambia.wordpress.com/2...oluble-calcium-and-calcium-phosphate-wca-wcp/

Bones and vinegar are the P.* not eggshells

Skipo said:

I checked out a video on making your own lactobacillus serum. Good info, but it will take time to make that stuff...I just started a new grow with fox farm ocean forest (3 parts) to happy frog (1 part), bc a friend suggesting it as being a good out of the box organic soil mix. My question is I know there is food in there...Should I feed it anything besides ph’d water right now, or? I ordered some ogbiowar in the meantime to do an organic grow

Click to expand...

CrimsonEcho said:

Right now i got banana peels (great weight booster), alfalfa (triacontanol and all the goodies) and stinging nettle (perfect for veg) ready and going and doing a aloe vera (amino acids, hormones, enzymes etc.) and a fermented bat guano (flower booster). I got my line set up :D
Next gonna do a fermented flower extract. Picking all the flowers i can find and cucumbers are very nice for that, also the lollipoped flowers from cannabis will go into it. Also looking into ohn. Keeping myself busy.

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How do you use the stinging nettle?

What a weird world, i concur with bulldog. If you grow in soil get some soil tests done and apply scientific based approaches. Traditional agriculture and methods have a whole lot to offer the cannabis grower.

Ferments are a cool idea and have a bunch of uses, but bulldog does operate on a pretty large scale and has a point it would be difficult to apply to acres. You could do it of course, but I would think it woul be time/cost prohibitive and wouldnt really be a worthwhile, people arent going to pay more a unit because it is "more" organic.

I’m a huge fan of whatever works for the situation. Be it organic or minerals. I find organic interesting in that you can find so many sources and in my opinion save money on nutrients. It’s not just plant based obviously.
I’ve seen larger scale farms that use biodynamic farming and other stuff on large scale too. Like I said I’m a fan of organic obviously but I’m not opposed to doing what I need to to suit my situation.
Respects,
Dex

Interesting articles


https://www.capitalpress.com/ag_sec...cle_2921b373-dbca-518b-a0af-67d9261a4cd3.html

https://www.leafly.com/news/lifestyle/sparc-cannabis-harvest-biodynamic-demeter-california

Bulldog420 said:

Yea, like I thought. The banana thing isn't a viable option for 99% of farmers. Maybe the home back yard guy with 3 plants.....

Bone meal even with "lacto" will take a long time to break down into plant soluble nutrients. This is pretty common knowledge......

Chemistry in soil makes all the difference. I suggest you read books from leading agronomist such as William Albrect and Tiejens. All this number stuff will make sense once you comprehend farming a little better.

Everything in the soil comes down to two things, biology and chemistry. Good luck.

Click to expand...

So? If it doesn’t apply to you is it useless? You dont utilize it but i do and so could you. Just takes a little bit of effort. There is more than one way to grow.
If your objective is to prove that one way is superior to another, that is just an endless conversation that will not contribute anything to a forum and this thread is not the place.
You can supplement ionic feeds to your crops, thats your call. Again organics is not about that npk numbers to begin with. Those numbers don’t give you absolute values of what plant is getting. There are many more aspects to an organic soil than just adding 40 this and 15 that.
I will not go into a full blown debate on this, to each his own. If you want to learn more read about KNF and see how many people utilizes that philosophy in their acres and acres of space.

Fyi; you break down bone meal seperately and bottle it as a liquid nutrient so once you finish the process you’ll always have ready to use and readily available liquid bone meal. This is done prior to a grow. Self sustainability is a good thing.

Skipo said:

How do you use the stinging nettle?

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As a npk fertilizer diluted 1 to 500 and a foliar spray as a plant tonic diluted 1 to 1000.

dextr0 said:

I’m a huge fan of whatever works for the situation. Be it organic or minerals. I find organic interesting in that you can find so many sources and in my opinion save money on nutrients. It’s not just plant based obviously.
I’ve seen larger scale farms that use biodynamic farming and other stuff on large scale too. Like I said I’m a fan of organic obviously but I’m not opposed to doing what I need to to suit my situation.
Respects,
Dex

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I already said, the only reason i can think of using chemicals is they’re convenient economically and doesnt require any labour. But people use imo, emo and faa and ohn and any natural farming agent actually in a large scale. Fermented stinging nettle is not some miracle cure that canna growers came up with, it is an agent of french traditional farming. If you have a big enough drum, you can purchase the heads and the bones and the insides of fishes from the market and pickle them in sugar, voila, you have fish amino acids. Fish fertilizer. Whatever you have growing near you, take the growing shoots for veg, take the flowers for flower. Ferment it. Easy and free..

I posted that info about stinging nettle and French farmers here on the farm long ago. Like I said me and other farmers threw a lot of info into this thread here...I’m going back over it all because it really was a lot of information.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...nd-making-your-own-nutrient-line.18772/page-5

xavier7995 said:

What a weird world, i concur with bulldog. If you grow in soil get some soil tests done and apply scientific based approaches. Traditional agriculture and methods have a whole lot to offer the cannabis grower.

Ferments are a cool idea and have a bunch of uses, but bulldog does operate on a pretty large scale and has a point it would be difficult to apply to acres. You could do it of course, but I would think it woul be time/cost prohibitive and wouldnt really be a worthwhile, people arent going to pay more a unit because it is "more" organic.

Click to expand...

CrimsonEcho said:

I already said, the only reason i can think of using chemicals is they’re convenient economically and doesnt require any labour. But people use imo, emo and faa and ohn and any natural farming agent actually in a large scale. Fermented stinging nettle is not some miracle cure that canna growers came up with, it is an agent of french traditional farming. If you have a big enough drum, you can purchase the heads and the bones and the insides of fishes from the market and pickle them in sugar, voila, you have fish amino acids. Fish fertilizer. Whatever you have growing near you, take the growing shoots for veg, take the flowers for flower. Ferment it. Easy and free..

Click to expand...

dextr0 said:

I posted that info about stinging nettle and French farmers here on the farm long ago. Like I said me and other farmers threw a lot of info into this thread here...I’m going back over it all because it really was a lot of information.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...nd-making-your-own-nutrient-line.18772/page-5

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Sorry quoted the wrong reply :D
Yeah it takes time for all this info to sink in. We growers are really doing too much at all times. We have to know physics we have to now biology, microbiology and have to know chemisty and all these in plant specific relations. It is just impossible to know and utilize everything, we just pick a path and stick with it and keep getting better at it.

dextr0 said:

I posted that info about stinging nettle and French farmers here on the farm long ago. Like I said me and other farmers threw a lot of info into this thread here...I’m going back over it all because it really was a lot of information.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...nd-making-your-own-nutrient-line.18772/page-5

Click to expand...

Very informative thread there. I’ll look into it (and i think i already looked at it before but it never hurts to go over it again) :)

CrimsonEcho said:

As a npk fertilizer diluted 1 to 500 and a foliar spray as a plant tonic diluted 1 to 1000.

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You can start using that when? I have seedlings like a week to 2 weeks old

Skipo said:

You can start using that when? I have seedlings like a week to 2 weeks old

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I guess I’m trying to figure out how to not burn or overfeed these new seedlings. Using organic soil I understand there is food in it, I just was curious what the threshold is as far as feeding the nutes to soon in a medium like that...

Skipo said:

I guess I’m trying to figure out how to not burn or overfeed these new seedlings. Using organic soil I understand there is food in it, I just was curious what the threshold is as far as feeding the nutes to soon in a medium like that...

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When the leaf color starts to lighten up, i start feeding. Seedlings dont need feeding. Vegging plants, in a mix like yours, don’t need feeding. If you’re gonna veg for more than a month then maybe. Nettle, eventho i clasified as my veg fpe, can be used in flowering too. It has everything. Micros, macros, trace elements, hormones, enzymes etc etc.
To sum up. Seedlings dont need fertilization. You can do a dilute foliar appliaction once they move along into veg a little further. But when soil is rich, i would stick with a 1 to 1500 dilution and also add aloe vera ferment for a complete plant tonic, again at the rate of 1 to 1500. The aloe vera is not a great fertilizer per se, it is a bio activator, so it shouldn’t burn or anything.

dextr0 said:

Totally backwards thinking. If that’s what you think fpe are you are the one who should be reading. By using enzymes, microbes, etc we are breaking down the nutrition inside of plants making some readily available.

To know which plants to use for what situation is all on you.

If this couldn’t be done large scale it would be irrelevant mostly but it’s been being used on farms for years as a way to not only save money but also use what’s near you to grow organically.

P can be had by roasting eggshells and leaving in vinegar for some time. It’s all there saved for anyone who wants to do the work. It is work, but not a lot. Biggest part is the know how.
https://alohagambia.wordpress.com/2...oluble-calcium-and-calcium-phosphate-wca-wcp/

Click to expand...

Dude, I was roasting egg shells for my worms 20 years ago...... I found adding vinegar to break down the shells creates too acidic of an input for my worms, or cannabis for that matter. I found grinding the egg shells in a grinder into a fine dust, and applying that is far more effective. Let the microbes break the egg shell down, and not the acidic vinegar. On top of that, I add 6 egg shells a day to my 1 yard of worm bins I keep in the garage during the winter. When those castings are done, I still add a butt tone of calciums and P. If you are trying to grow a plant with egg shell inputs, your plants will be very hungry.

Can you explain how "By using enzymes, microbes, etc we are breaking down the nutrition inside of plants making some readily available." I always though when growing organically, we allow microbes to break down organic food and the root exudates pull that raw form up as nutrients. How are you breaking down nutrients "inside" the plant?

Those books I recommended talk all about how nutrients are taken up by plants, and what the ideal base saturation levels are in the soil. I think it might really help out. Wish you luck.

CrimsonEcho said:

So? If it doesn’t apply to you is it useless? You dont utilize it but i do and so could you. Just takes a little bit of effort. There is more than one way to grow.
If your objective is to prove that one way is superior to another, that is just an endless conversation that will not contribute anything to a forum and this thread is not the place.
You can supplement ionic feeds to your crops, thats your call. Again organics is not about that npk numbers to begin with. Those numbers don’t give you absolute values of what plant is getting. There are many more aspects to an organic soil than just adding 40 this and 15 that.
I will not go into a full blown debate on this, to each his own. If you want to learn more read about KNF and see how many people utilizes that philosophy in their acres and acres of space.

Fyi; you break down bone meal seperately and bottle it as a liquid nutrient so once you finish the process you’ll always have ready to use and readily available liquid bone meal. This is done prior to a grow. Self sustainability is a good thing.

Click to expand...

I never said anything was useless. I was genuinely asking if any of those techniques could be applied to a large garden, and the answer was clearly no. Unless you live on a banana farm....... The concept however is what all organic gardeners do, is utilize organic inputs from local farms. Just no banana farms here. Without a banana farm, I am trying to imagine how this works...... You go down to Safeway and buy a pallet of banana's? How much does that cost?

I clearly said I don't add ionic fertilizers, why would you accuse me of doing so?

Liquid bone meal? Yea, that is fairly soluble and a great product. Still not even close to the boost that Monopotassium phosphate adds. I love bone meal, and add about 20# per yard every year. I add mine in the fall so it's broken down by spring. Cause I know how long that stuff takes to break down, years. How big does that bottle have to be to soak the bone meal? I have almost a thousand yards I ammend, at 20+ lbs per yard we are talking 20,000 lbs of bone meal. Better get a bigger bottle, lol. To reach 80+% base saturation, bone meal is one of my main calcium's.

You guys seem to be preaching to the choir. I am an organic grower, with many organic tricks. My only point I was making is organics are very hard to produce the same yields as a grow with chemical boots given at critical points of influence. Need further evidence? Go read a giant pumpkin growing book. Those guys have really set the path. Just trying to share what I believe, and trying to not putting anybody else down in the process.