Bulldog11
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How many people tend to forget the chemical changing in organics and even micro life to make up the Carbon cycle ..
Organics is like a religion pick one ??? but before which one is true,, or which one have you been brainwashed to believe is true
My whole point is this, if you looking strictly towards product quality, yield and time-frame as parameters, you need to do a cost benefit analysis. I would surmise if those are your only goals, it would do the grower well to look towards conventional farming methods. There is a reason those who run large farms do what they do, when the cost of the good is driven down with razor thin margins. They spend billions on r&d, I would hope they have they science down pat. Now if the reasons are otherwise then it becomes a bit murky
Ok, I've gotta bring something up here. Big ag, conventional ag, is to a very large degree subsidized. In other words, they get money from us to do their thing. So, how's that cost benefit analysis really gonna work here? To be certified organic you have to jump through a vast myriad of hoops, including providing a soil and water conservation plan. And then you get to pay (through the nose) to get that 1x/year certification, which must be updated annually. To be conventional, you've just gotta break ground.My whole point is this, if you looking strictly towards product quality, yield and time-frame as parameters, you need to do a cost benefit analysis. I would surmise if those are your only goals, it would do the grower well to look towards conventional farming methods. There is a reason those who run large farms do what they do, when the cost of the good is driven down with razor thin margins. They spend billions on r&d, I would hope they have they science down pat. Now if the reasons are otherwise then it becomes a bit murky
Absolutely correct current ag industry AFAIK is heavily heavily subsidized, but forgive if I'm wrong but aren't the crops subsidized and not the farm itself(not including drought years, tax credits for bad years, crop failures, etc) so organic farmers are also subsidized if I'm not mistaken, and in some cases they get extra subsidies to offset the cost of permits,inspection, etc. Once again not extremely well versed in agribusiness only info I got from shadowing my pathology prof at a sugarcane field, but due to the crop being subsidized and not the production, then subsidizing shouldn't figure into production costs? I agree the margins shouldn't be figured however bc of subsidies.Ok, I've gotta bring something up here. Big ag, conventional ag, is to a very large degree subsidized. In other words, they get money from us to do their thing. So, how's that cost benefit analysis really gonna work here? To be certified organic you have to jump through a vast myriad of hoops, including providing a soil and water conservation plan. And then you get to pay (through the nose) to get that 1x/year certification, which must be updated annually. To be conventional, you've just gotta break ground.
Organic ag is not subsidized in the same way the commodity crops are. We're not paid to not grow crops, for example, nor are we guaranteed minimum pricing for those crops. There are programs available to help offset costs, such as for certification, but they are not extensive enough for many farmers to really be able to make use of them (using organic as the example). There are farmer loan programs that anyone can use, but again, this isn't the same as a subsidy that guarantees a certain amount of a given crop is grown.Absolutely correct current ag industry AFAIK is heavily heavily subsidized, but forgive if I'm wrong but aren't the crops subsidized and not the farm itself(not including drought years, tax credits for bad years, crop failures, etc) so organic farmers are also subsidized if I'm not mistaken, and in some cases they get extra subsidies to offset the cost of permits,inspection, etc. Once again not extremely well versed in agribusiness only info I got from shadowing my pathology prof at a sugarcane field, but due to the crop being subsidized and not the production, then subsidizing shouldn't figure into production costs? I agree the margins shouldn't be figured however bc of subsidies.
Well really, we're all missing the point, the OP was asking if the yield/cost of synthetics are comparable in reality to organics. Now I agree with you, i would wager a good 90% of people switching to organics are not doing for the same reason as OP's question but rather for the concerns you have.Whoa whoa whoa. Wait. Funding and expenses sure. But again i think were missing the point. I, personally am here to try and move forward with my knowledge as far as...what is natural. What isn't. What says organic but is still harmful. What is truly natural. What isnt. To find out if chemical fertilizers out there really aren't as bad as organic. Is there THAT big of a difference. Am i putting chemicals in my body if i use certain fertilizers. Are there natural fertilizers non organic, that are still, on a biological level. Safe to put in your body. I dont want carcinogens in my body, or of those whom i love around me. One day were all gonna die. Id like for that to NOT happen with disease and poison chillin in my body cause i smoked too many chemical joints.
This really, for me at least, is a knowledge endeavor about being health conscious. Now this might be a place for chem-growers to bash our supposed benefits. Which is fine. It's a discussion not a dictatorship. But all these things i read make me want to move forward.
Ive decided against guano since i heard what guano mining does to the enviorenment. I also heard scott from NFTG (nectar for the gods) say that these guano piles are piled with cockroaches who eat that shit then shit out that shit. I thought back to the planet earth episode about caves where there were gigantic piles of bat turds covered in cockroaches worms and gigantic centipedes. Disgusting. So all of you bat guano enthusiasts are actually cockroach guano enthusiasts.
Also that piece about peat moss and how theyre destroying enviorenments to get to it. So im turned off to pete moss.
Bash on organics more so i know what i wont personally support. Haha.
I guess what im trying to say is...am i really helping my body by attempting to farm organically. Am i wasting money going this route. Are there natural options that are even better for me? Are there chemical optiona that are biologically not bad for me?
That being said. Im not a cash crop fast as i can much as i can kind of grower. Sure i want a good sized crop but i dont want to pump my buds full of bad shit to get there. Im gonna focus on my personal crop of meds for myself and my loved ones. Natural. The way nature would approve. Even if the concoction i put together would never occur naturally i dont care. Thats not the point. The point is to only put what naturally occurs in thr world together in one spot to make my garden. Feel me.
first of all lets not get religion into this thread or i should say don't get me started lol i am sorry if i offended you was not intended but if you really put the 2 together its pretty much the same people believing that its better or in this that its safer more environmentally friendly etc etcWhy did you need to hate on religious people before you made your post? :mad: Not cool, and caused me to ignore the rest of your post. I don't care to read about hate when we are having a good conversation about how we feed our plants. I was offended.
first of all lets not get religion into this thread or i should say don't get me started lol i am sorry if i offended you was not intended but if you really put the 2 together its pretty much the same people believing that its better or in this that its safer more environmentally friendly etc etc
Garden guy you live in a city ??? if so then pretty sure your kids are being poisoned just by breathing .
So get your head out of your ass
But the idea that organic foods are healthier isn't even the largest myth out there. That title belongs to the widely held belief that organic farming does not use pesticides. A 2010 poll found that 69% of consumers believe that to be true. Among those who regularly purchase organic food, the notion is even more prevalent. A survey from the Soil Association found that as many as 95% of organic consumers in the UK buy organic to "avoid pesticides."
In fact, organic farmers do use pesticides. The oncat they're "natural" instead of "synthetic." At face value, the labels make it sound like the products they describe are worlds apart, but they aren't. A pesticide, whether it's natural or not, is a chemical with the purpose of killing insects (or warding off animals, or destroying weeds, or mitigating any other kind of pest, as our watchful commenters have correctly pointed out). Sadly, however, "natural" pesticides aren't as effective, so organic farmers actually end up using more of them!*
Moreover, we actually know less about the effects of "natural" pesticides. Conventional "synthetic" pesticides are highly regulated and have been for some time. We know that any remaining pesticide residues on both conventional and organic produce aren't harmful to consumers. But, writes agricultural technologist Steve Savage, "we still have no real data about the most likely pesticide residues that occur on organic crops and we are unlikely to get any."
Scientists can examine pesticides before they are sprayed on fields, however. And what do these analyses show?
"Organic pesticides that are studied have been found to be as toxic as synthetic pesticides," Steven Novella, president and co-founder of the New England Skeptical Society, recently wrote.
Organic foods are no safer than conventional foods. Even Katherine DiMatteo, executive director of the Organic Trade Association (OTA), recognizes this as fact. An “organic label does not promise a necessarily safer product," she once remarked (PDF).
So why are the misconceptions so pervasive? According to an in-depth report by Academics Review, a group founded by University of Illinois nutritional scientist Bruce M. Chassy and University of Melbourne food scientist David Tribe, the organic and natural-products industry -- which is worth an estimated $63 billion worldwide -- has engaged in a "pattern of research-informed and intentionally-deceptive marketing and advocacy related practices with the implied use and approval of the U.S. government endorsed USDA Organic Seal." Like their succulent fruits and scrumptious vegetables that we eat, the organic industry has given consumers a nibble of untruth and a taste of fear, and have allowed misunderstanding to sow and spread while they reap the benefits.
No problemo amigo, I enjoy a fresh conversation on a topic that's so widely debated, with science, Frank but for the most part respectful, and mostly open minded. You are making that possible, and I wish more in the organic community truly wanted to learn rather than stopping their education on something they hold close to them and feeling justified to look down on others.@SpitXFire. @shemshemet
I understand. Im really doing my best to keep up! Thank you so much for your responses and patience...
I understand that nature creates a lot of bad as well... My aim is to steer clear. Wether it be stamped organic, natural, or neither. Id support it if ot was proven to be healthy even though that's possibly impossible At this point as stated earlier. y, enviorenmentally friendly is a plus, its fucked up to jack up an eco system like someone earlier was stating about chicken farming and the chesapeake bay, and turn around and call it organic...So fuck those people! >:0
F'in up the enviorenment and stamping it organic is twisted as hell!
So, how do i, as a personal med (and food and vegetable) farmer find my ground in this eco-friendly/unfriendly, good for me / bad for me, organic/natural/chemical/chemnatural organic (haha) mess.
Im not just growing cannabis, i grow 15-20 varieties of fruit trees, i have multiple fruit and vegetable gardens. I do my best to make sure my kids arent getting poisoned every time we sit down at the fkn dinner table. This topic involves the health of my family, so im instantly facinated! Haha. That being said.. If organic vs. Chemical is not so black and white then me buying all organic nutrients and all organic seeds and organic medium for my bud plants. All that shit, isnt enough. So... At the risk of asking you guys to go off topic again, and possibly getting shot down and told to open up a new thread..... What IS enough IYO?
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