Tell me about Coco....

[blackcat]

So I have grown in peat-based soilless and soil mixes. I am tired of buying the big overpriced dusty promix or sunshine bales which are shipped across the country and are non-renewable and half the time have sticks in them. Not to mention I want to reuse the medium and peat based mediums tend to go very acidic unless you keep liming them and they break down and aren't as nice after a run. Coco I'm told, actually gets better the more you use it.

I am switching to coco. A brick of GH coco is a couple dollars less than a bale of sunshine or promix. I want to handwater coco every day for max growth. It isn't feasible to setup a drip in my room at the moment. I will cut the coco mix with rice hulls instead of perlite (THANKS SEAMAIDEN!!!) probably at 60% rice 40% coco or 50% rice 50% coco-- somewhere around there. I will also probably add some high quality earthworm castings for the biological activity. Watering by hand a lot isn't a problem, I have a team of gardeners who need some discipline.

I want to feed with compost teas combined with synthetic nutes (gh 3 part) because I've had amazing results combining the two in dirt. I'm told coco has certain characteristics. I am aware of the calmag draw and additional potassium characteristics. What else do I need to know? i.e. how do I feed? I come from dirt where it goes feed- water - water. In coco should I constantly feed with the nutrient solution? Or should I also give plain water? I've heard conflicting reports. Should I aim for run-off? I've heard you don't necessarily need to feed to runoff even in coco. Thanks

 

[Seamaiden]

I really prefer to feed/water to run-off in coco, as this does quite a lot to avoid build-up problems. However, if you water prior to feeding, so that the coco is well wetted down first, you may not need to be quite as diligent. As always, watch the girls to tell you if you're going too hot on the feed, but generally I personally prefer to feed every time.

You seem to have good understanding of everything else.

Just be certain to get that coco well rinsed and very well charged (I'm talking about 20mls/gal of Cal-Mag or similar product, i.e. many times the normal dose, along with a mild vegging nutrient mix) and you should have an enjoyable experience.

 

[blackcat]

Just be certain to get that coco well rinsed and very well charged (I'm talking about 20mls/gal of Cal-Mag or similar product, i.e. many times the normal dose, along with a mild vegging nutrient mix) and you should have an enjoyable experience.

Wow Sea-maiden 20mls/gal!! Ok, I'll give it a shot... thanks again. lovin the rice hulls

 

[Rushoe]

Not dissing the coco that you have to wash cuz for one I have never used it. I don't like the idea that you have to wash it to lower the EC I think its worth putting up the few extra bucks to grab something like canna coco u can use this stuff right outa the bag and start nutes the 1st day of transplant working with coco has made things more easy and mixing with gh 3 part is very ph perfect for coco alwasy when I mix I get a ph of 5.6 to 5.8 So if I am gonna tell u something about coco I will tell u dont get something u have to wash and dont get something per charged control what goes in and if your plant is not liking the mix of nutes it will tell u right away and issues can be dealt with fast. More often watering the soil thats for sure. Good Luck with your switch I hope u find coco as rewarding as I think it is.

 

[homebrew420]

As per usually Sea is right on. I just started using coco for this whole grow, I am really diggin it. It is more work, which I dont dig, growth rates are far better. I feed almost every watering, and to run off. I try not to let the coco dry out but it still happens from time to time. Without damage or ill affect. I have been using Gh Floranova, without and Calmag supliment. These nutes have been doing just fine, however I do have strains that seem to require more calmag, the White and my Juniper Stereo. When I noticed this I started suplimenting and everything looks good now. Even under t8s and t5s I am very pleased with my results thus far. I have been using straight Botanicare blocks no rinse, expand with micro organism inoculant and cal mag, done.

Good luck to ya

Peace

 

[freegrow]

the calmag draw and additional potassium characteristics? can someone please give details of this or a link . thanks

:harvest:

 

[Seamaiden]

Integral Hydroponics Page Coco Substrate Science
^^ Very basic primer.

 

[Snow Crash]

If you sign up here you can get a good deal of good info on Coco. Check out both the articles and the info papers.

Sea: that link was crazy in depth. There were some excluded details that I think could be misleading (like the volume of coco used for the composition test).

There are many ways to grow in coco for sure.

My method is to start my seeds/clones in very clean, pure, coco. I generally start with compressed Botanicare coco because I find it to be better for my uses. Once I fill the starting cups/tray with coco I rinse it clean and start my seeds. Once they are 2-3 nodes tall, or rooted, then I begin using ~0.6ec solution of a coco specific nutrient, a silica supplement, and an supplement that contains iron. Coco specific nutrients will have all the Calcium you need for veg, if you see a calcium deficiency (unlikely) all you need to do is run more of the Coco macro nutrients, rather than feeling like you have to use more Cal-Mag Plus. Many people do use Cal-Mag plus, I have myself, but make sure to be mindful of the usage during the transitional stages of flowering.

I am an unsatisfied customer of Canna Products. I worked with them for about 2 years, sticking to their system, trying to fix it... all kinds of bologna over that time. Finally, I get myself an EC meter and start testing the runoff of a new system and things go sooooo much better.

Canna Coco 50L bags contain roughly 40L of coco. They nail you for 20% right off the bat. I find their coco to contain more "tufts" of unrefined coco than other brands. I also found all forms of sticks, nuts, plastic shreddings, bugs, and even a mystery plant in the stuff. And to top it all off, your starting runoff EC, when using <0.1ec in, is over 2.2ec. Their idea of a pre-charge has nearly killed many of my young plants.

Today I'm working with a combination of Roots Organics Coco Mix, Compressed Botanicare CocoGro, Used Coco, and EarthStone GrowStones (made from recycled glass). The Roots Organics Mix already contains a very good deal of perlite, and the GrowStones are basically just giant pieces of perlite which adds a lot more aeration to the media, so I cut it with more coco peat to balance it back out. Compared to other coco that I've tried this method has most definitely produced more bud and healthier roots on daily feedings than any other.

 

[blackcat]

make sure to be mindful of the usage during the transitional stages of flowering.

Can you elaborate on the above comment on Cal/mag plus used in transition stage more? im not sure if you mean it should be cut back or used more. i remember erik biksa wrote he reccomends a foliar calmag spray during the first 2 weeks of flower / stretch.


i got a cheap grotek brick from a gardening store. it cost 2 dollars and expands to 9 litres. not sure if rinsed or pre charged but am guessing not. i will expand it and rinse it, then give it 15-20 ml p gallon calmag and then inoculate it with a earthworm tea. i think my mix will be 50% rice hulls, 40% coco, 10% ewc. subject to change based on how it feels. you guys should see the castings I get, putting your hands into it is like sex in a bag of dirt... so nicely screened absolutely nothing but pure worm poo!!!



thanks for the link and all the info.

same goes to everyone thx i will post some pics in this thread of my mix today.

 

[Snow Crash]

What I mean to say is that during veg I might run more like 4-5ml of Cal-Mag Plus as the coco is fresh and I'm building up the Calcium buffer but during flowering I use much less.

After transplanting to the final container of coco it takes just a few weeks to fulfill the Cation Exchange Capacity. It just so happens that 3 or 4 weeks after transplanting into a new planter, and the end of the stretch period of flowering, generally coincide.

This leads to some confusion.

In some ways problems can be the result of the "maturity" of the coco and the charge of calcium it has banked over the last few weeks of very high Ca supplementation. In other ways it is the result of the changing nutritional requirements of the plant. Both issues collide and make for a really bad time for a lot of coco growers by the 3rd week of flowering.

Thus, during weeks 1 and 2 after the 12/12 flip I cut WAY back on the Cal-Mag Plus. 2ml at most, sometimes none at all (if I'm feeding daily then I alternate days I use it). Coco specific nutrients are going to contain all the calcium you need for flowering, especially when considering the charge already contained in the coco.

During the first few weeks of flowering I like to foliar feed with a combination of 1ml fulvic acid (chelator), 10ml Kelp extract (vitamins & hormones), 25ppm Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate), and 5ml Liquid Karma (Yucca extract and more vitamins). I think the combination of high magnesium with "stress reduction" supplements and copious amounts of runoff during this period made a big difference in my most recent grow.

I also disagree with the whole 20ml of Cal-Mag Plus to "pre-charge" your coco. I have found the concept of pre-charging to be based on a perpetuation of old coco info and using just Cal-Mag Plus would be a mistake. It contains no Phosphorus or Potassium (other important elements) which will not help your situation. You also already have your A+B formula which will actually contain MORE calcium per ml than Cal-Mag Plus will. So... Even if you needed a pre-charge it makes much more sense to pre-charge with the proper balance of Coco nutrients in your Coco specific formula which contains more calcium already.

Everyone knows that early on plants don't need much in the way of nutrition. We also know that coco will retain a good deal of stuff that we add to it. Thus, there really is no need to pre-charge your coco. Doing so when you're not entirely sure what you're doing can cause more problems than it solves.

If you're starting from seed then (like I said above) I recommend you rinse your coco totally clean. Once it is sprouted or rooted, you get to start feeding. With the first few feedings the coco picks up a charge and starts the plant out gradually. After 4 or 5 feedings the coco CEC will surpass other medias and you'll start seeing that amazing growth rate.

There are times to hit your plant with nutrients, and there are times to back off and let the plant just do its thing. I find that in coco it is best to keep the CEC of the media lower during the first 2 weeks of life, the first 2 weeks of flowering, and the last 2 weeks of flowering. With the EWC, you'll need to add even less food (especially nitrogen) in your solution.

 

[Seamaiden]

Ever since moving away from the combined Ca/Mg products I've been much, much happier and more pleased with the results.

However, I still like to get the coco precharged, not just with Ca and Mg, but with that mild vegging nutrient solution that I mentioned, which would be providing the nutrients that Cal-Mag alone won't provide. I'm sure there are others who do differently, this is what I was taught to do from the beginning, fought it and had crappy results. Once I realized that there is truly no reason for me to reinvent the wheel I began seeing the expected results (i.e. that old information).