Tent Fires? Wires running through fabric ports, somethings wrong with that practice.

[PipeCarver]

I'm relatively new to the tent growing and I've a bit of a concern about the way wires for equipment have only fabric ports to go through. As an ex electrician, one of the things we don't do is run extension cords through or under fabric or anything easily flammable.
I've witnessed running electrical fires, starting at equipment and running along the wire burning through the insulation along the way then exploding in an electrical junction box, then branching out onto all the circuits and extensions off that junction box. creating an instant disaster Disconnecting the main power source was the only way to shut that down......Long story short I don't like running my wires through the fabric ports.

To help a bit I run where I can wires through a 2" pvc duct through the port and wires through the duct specially for the larger loads, as in a heater cord or hps power supply if you're using one in a tent. or off a power bar cord that everything is loaded onto.

What's your thoughts? anyone have a horror story...Halloween and all.......I have a pic of one port I'm running through now on another computer, I'll post when I can.

 

[PipeCarver]

I'm relatively new to the tent growing and I've a bit of a concern about the way wires for equipment have only fabric ports to go through. As an ex electrician, one of the things we don't do is run extension cords through or under fabric or anything easily flammable.
I've witnessed running electrical fires, starting at equipment and running along the wire burning through the insulation along the way then exploding in an electrical junction box, then branching out onto all the circuits and extensions off that junction box. creating an instant disaster Disconnecting the main power source was the only way to shut that down......Long story short I don't like running my wires through the fabric ports.

To help a bit I run where I can wires through a 2" pvc duct through the port and wires through the duct specially for the larger loads, as in a heater cord or hps power supply if you're using one in a tent. or off a power bar cord that everything is loaded onto.

What's your thoughts? anyone have a horror story...Halloween and all.......I have a pic of one port I'm running through now on another computer, I'll post when I can.

 

[SchwiftyGrower]

Yeah now I’m on the way to hardware store to buy this now thanks for the advice

 

[ritoMox]

This may seem like a no-brainer, but just as a reminder make sure all electrical cords/appliances are securely suspended above the floor to help insure that in the event of water spilling, leaking, etc., there will be no risk of electrical shorts/fires

 

[PipeCarver]

This may seem like a no-brainer, but just as a reminder make sure all electrical cords/appliances are securely suspended above the floor to help insure that in the event of water spilling, leaking, etc., there will be no risk of electrical shorts/fires

That's not always practical but I get your drift. Ever been to a construction site?...Cords everywhere, in through and around water. More of a tripping hazard than anything. It doesn't conduct through regular water as much as you may think it does. Add salt and we've got a problem. if we've cords suspended and they catch fire from a short its a worse situation than running along the floors.

 

[Blastfact]

Old sparky here. I don't worry about it because I do things right. Each tent has it's own 20 amp breaker on 12 ga. wire with it's own ground rod and bonded neutral/ground with a Hubbell 4-Plex hospital grade surge/load protected receptacle. Both tents are on there own small panel independent of the rest of the house. Same with my computers. Make sure all cords, cord caps, power strips and devices are rated correctly and in good working order and inspected regularly.

 

[Ganjadad]

You could just change out the outlets your using to a gfci and could also change the breaker they use to a gfci for extra protection. Most homes use 12g for outlets but I’d check the wire size to see how much load you can really put on that circuit. Make sure to explain that the conduit your using to insulate the wire is big enough so it doesn’t make the wire even hotter. Could actually start a fire by trying to prevent one if the conduit isn’t the right size.

 

[elusiveshame]

That's not always practical but I get your drift. Ever been to a construction site?...Cords everywhere, in through and around water. More of a tripping hazard than anything. It doesn't conduct through regular water as much as you may think it does. Add salt and we've got a problem. if we've cords suspended and they catch fire from a short its a worse situation than running along the floors.

Agreed. Right now 99% of my cords are off the ground, but are they're just sitting on an upside down laundry basket. The only exception is the hygrometer metered outlet, and that's because the humidifier is on the opposite side of the tent (where no other outlet is), and the only way it would reach is by having that device on the floor. Of course, I didn't know I'd need half of this when I started putting everything together, so it's just a mishmash of "it works" for now, but I want to set up some panels to mount everything to.

I like the PVC pipe setup - I think I may do that after this grow. My question on that is how do you prevent light leaks from the pipe? How many 90 degree bends is sufficient to ensure no light gets in (or even bugs)?

 

[Ganjadad]

Agreed. Right now 99% of my cords are off the ground, but are they're just sitting on an upside down laundry basket. The only exception is the hygrometer metered outlet, and that's because the humidifier is on the opposite side of the tent (where no other outlet is), and the only way it would reach is by having that device on the floor. Of course, I didn't know I'd need half of this when I started putting everything together, so it's just a mishmash of "it works" for now, but I want to set up some panels to mount everything to.

I like the PVC pipe setup - I think I may do that after this grow. My question on that is how do you prevent light leaks from the pipe? How many 90 degree bends is sufficient to ensure no light gets in (or even bugs)?

You can use a reducer at the end so it’s more of a tight fit at the end

 

[elusiveshame]

You can use a reducer at the end so it’s more of a tight fit at the end

I was thinking of one of the thin black pipe caps and fashioning it in a way to cover the end + copious amounts of duct tape, but a reducer might be better

 

[Ganjadad]

I was thinking of one of the thin black pipe caps and fashioning it in a way to cover the end + copious amounts of duct tape, but a reducer might be better

A cap would work too. Drill a hole in the center the size of the wire your using
Edit- big enough for the plug so you don’t have to cut the wire and splice it back together

 

[Sod]

Best way to prevent a problem with overheated or shorted wires is to aviod cheap cables/wires. A conductor is just that, a conductor. What separates the men from the boys is the quality of the insulation. Temperature is your enemy that causes the problems with wiring insulation. Why some extension cords cost more than others is the quality of the insulator. Heat breaks down insulation and that is where your problems start. Why are transmission overhead wires smaller than you would think they should be? They don't get hot. In open air the heat does not build up. When upgrading from a 200 amp service to a 400 amp service, this does not require the supplying utility to upsize the conductors feeding the service. I know, I've installed plenty of them. Using a silicone type insulation cable will go a long way in preventing fires from an overloaded circuit. Using a receptacle that was not a dedicated separate circuit from the panel leaves you wondering what else is on that circuit. NEC is vague on the number of receptacles can be on a single circuit. A misconception is that the number of receptacles is determinate. Not true. A noncontact amp meter, a clamp on type, can tell you how much power is being used under load for you tent. If your concerned about an electrical fire, don't go cheap. A dedicated circuit, quality cables (SO, SJ, SOO and so on) and common sense will serve you well. Be careful of AFCI's. These type of circuit protector devices can nusance trip since they can sometimes mistake a motor starting as a short circuit. You don't want to go back to check your tent to find out the AFCI shut off your power when one of the motors in a device triped the device and you were not aware of it. Someone commented on "bonding" ground and nuetral. NEC is very clear on that: The neutral and ground can only be bonded at the service. You WANT ALL short circuit current to return to the source, at the main service. This takes all short circuit current to ground at the main service where it belongs. Sorry to get in the weeds but grounding is confusing. If ever using bare wire as a grounding conductor remember that it must be bonded at any metal or conductive opening with a grounding bushing to prevent a ground pulse and destroying the bare conductor, thereby losing the path back to the main service and ground. Use quality and you'll reduce your problems to almost zero. Romex in an attic in warm regions? Check the temperature rating on Romex wiring/cables.

SOD

 

[dean1963]

i did similar but i'm in a outdoor vinyl shed so i can't be moved.
i used 1 1/2 steel pipe so i could get the cord ends thru 1 at a time and then used PL 3000 construction adhesive to fill the pipe air and light tight.
not pretty but it works.
these cords are rated for 20 amp and are on separate dedicated circuits. if that helps anyone

 

[Ganjadad]

I’m just a carpenter but we really should be stating that the wire or cable running through the conduit shouldn’t exceed 40% of the ID of the conduit. I’m sure there is a sparky on here somewhere that can explain sizing conduit properly to prevent overheating the wire/cable better than I can.

 

[dean1963]

I’m just a carpenter but we really should be stating that the wire or cable running through the conduit shouldn’t exceed 40% of the ID of the conduit. I’m sure there is a sparky on here somewhere that can explain sizing conduit properly to prevent overheating the wire/cable better than I can.

running wire thru a few inches of conduit/pipe/abs/pvc is not the same as using full run conduit.
unless your running 100's of amps your fine.
nothing that is in a tent is going to draw anywhere near that amount to create any amount of heat and if so your wire is way to small.
just my 2 cents though, so take it as what it is

 

[Ganjadad]

running wire thru a few inches of conduit/pipe/abs/pvc is not the same as using full run conduit.
unless your running 100's of amps your fine.
nothing that is in a tent is going to draw anywhere near that amount to create any amount of heat and if so your wire is way to small.
just my 2 cents though, so take it as what it is

Then why use conduit at all?
Wrapping any wire/cord with Insulation that has a constant load will definitely build up heat doesn’t matter the length and you have to consider how many bends there are. The longer the length the bigger you have to go with conduit of course but still

 

[dean1963]

Then why use conduit at all?
Wrapping any wire/cord with Insulation that has a constant load will definitely build up heat doesn’t matter the length and you have to consider how many bends there are. The longer the length the bigger you have to go with conduit of course but still

i thought the original question was about just going thru the opening in the tent. and i said a few inches wouldn't make any issues.
pardon me all to fucking hell if i misinterpreted the question

 

[Ganjadad]

Sorry if I came off wrong. I was just trying to point out that fact that conduit size should be sized properly to the wire/cord size so no one starts a fire trying to prevent one from over heating the wire/cord they are trying to protect. All wire/cord has a max heat temp no matter the length of conduit and adding any bends shortens that heat load

 

[PipeCarver]

Old sparky here. I don't worry about it because I do things right. Each tent has it's own 20 amp breaker on 12 ga. wire with it's own ground rod and bonded neutral/ground with a Hubbell 4-Plex hospital grade surge/load protected receptacle. Both tents are on there own small panel independent of the rest of the house. Same with my computers. Make sure all cords, cord caps, power strips and devices are rated correctly and in good working order and inspected regularly.

I didn't have time to respond yesterday, Not many have you're expertise in wiring and few would do or have done what you're doing. The point here is wire running through these fabric ports is a bad practice and I'm thinking the companies making the tents should do something. I'd like top see a power board on the inside that we plug into with a proper connection, like an RV hook up / ship to shore. Plug it in and then hook up equipment on the inside.

 

[PipeCarver]

You can use a reducer at the end so it’s more of a tight fit at the end

Not really, PVC can burn too if in close proximity to the flame. Electrical conduit would be better but my 2" pvc is better than nothing. If you put end caps on it the pvc its self could catch fire as well. I don't have to worry about light leaks and have left it open.

The higher the wattage going through the fabric the more concern I'd have about the wires going through the fabric. As these tents get bigger and there's a 1000watt plus running on #14 or smaller conductors fires are going to happen. I've seen a small radio short out for no apparent reason, burn the plug and blow the breaker. Shit happens and some of the components & equipment can fail and can cause fires. Since my early days in the elect business I was taught not to run conductors through or under fabric and then I got a tent.