LEDTonic
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I also think so.....You can choose expensive light especially for flowering than(this is what I am gonna do eventually),not grow under 3200k all the time for example but start under something cheaper 4500-6400 that doesn't produce so much heat……...Because for veg you don't need much and plants growing vigorous with these.Another member(az2000)showed that flowering also can be done really well.and save some hours from being taken of your big and expensive grow lamps' life.
I agree. I was a little sceptical to remove the protective dome/diffuser on the CFLs when I found out that they were made of glass. There was no super safe way to do it. I crushed the first lamp by hand but the other two I carefully sawed of with an angle grinder. Just touching the glass made them break right away in super small pieces and I found that to be a lot safer. The domes on the LEDs were made of plastic and were a lot easier to remove by first puncturing them with a knife and then just squeeze hard until the silicone holding it will let it go (for anyone wondering or having the same issues)..I discontinued to use CFLs but they were also fine….I just don't want to broke them in my house,LEDS are safer
I saw these lights available for under $20 online. Search around and save!
Тhat is 200w 4500k floodlight,but I find it unnesery strong for my small closet.May be 150.... its costs is about 70dollars I think....
I agree. I was a little sceptical to remove the protective dome/diffuser on the CFLs when I found out that they were made of glass.
Another member (az2000) showed that flowering also can be done really well.
A few years ago I grew with household LED lightbulbs, and documented some things on a blog. I made some measurements of the difference between lightbulbs with/without the diffusion globe, mounted in reflectors or not. I used an inexpensive lux meter (because I wasn't motivated enough to buy a real PAR meter. Plus, it's all white light. I think it's fairly comparable in terms of lumens. If it was blurple light, lux/lumens wouldn't be.).
Anyway, the blogs disappeared. But, I had copies of them. I'm in the process of putting the info on my Google Drive:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17eMlIDRQFDN0_0XAyrJyh-44NVBhXLz-
There will be 6 articles. Until they're all up, some interlinking inside the documents won't work. You might like the first document which compares lightbulbs.
Ina is referring to this post <<link (in the "COB vs gram-per-watt rule" thread). It doesn't discuss how I do it much (that will be the articles mentioned above). But, it shows photos of the plant in flower & the harvest.
Note: I said in that post that I was using 28w-32w/sq ft of lightbulbs. However, reviewing my notes fromback then: it was 18w-22w sq ft. That's very low light/energy, especially for flower. I was keeping it low to see how efficient these bulbs are. (I actually believe that surrounding a plant with light adds efficiency compared to supplying all the w/sq ft from a concentrated location from the top.). I.e., if I had all those bulbs mounted to a board hanging above the plant, I think I would have needed 28w-32w/sq ft. (But, juggling managing/positioning many individual sockets is tedious. It's not bad growing one plant. But, if I had 4 plants in a 4x4 tent, that could turn into a full-time job.).
PS: I haven't watched your video yet. I'll reply further when I do. I'm sure it's great stuff! I think more people should grow with these bulbs. Either supplementing/sidelighting in flower. Or, new growers who don't want to spend a lot of money on lights (before knowing they can grow. They can scale into light this way. And, use them for sidelighting if/when they buy a "real" grow-light fixture.).
But it makes sense since the average Joe doesn't have a LUXmeter laying around (or even better, a quantum sensor).
That also looks nice and easy(and on topic) but I think,like you mentioned ,that it can be positioned way lower judging by the plants stretch.....But its cool:)https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/super-cheap-led-veg-light.93296/Sweet information and pictures! Very informative and great looking. I love that you are experimenting and those lamp-splitter arms looks super handy.
I will dive deeper into that again later on :) thanks for the links.
I've just seen so many use household bulbs without really knowing how much they put out and how far away to place them from leaf surface/canopy at different stages. My goal is to provide thorough horticultural information to lighting technology not made for the purpose of growing, as it is so widely used. We should produce photons wisely and make the best use of them, at the right distance and quantity. I've seen multiple grows with one or two 23w CFLs hanging a foot above the canopy, producing plants that are falling over and I just think that some education in intensity and footprint could help a lot of people out there.
Many stare themselves blind on drawn wattage and lumens, which a plant cares nothing about if none of the light is actually reaching its leaves.
But it makes sense since the average Joe doesn't have a LUXmeter laying around (or even better, a quantum sensor).
The video is really made for anyone that wants to grow anything, but could also apply to an experienced cannabis grower.
I'd love to see a comparison of the PAR/watts for different household LED lightbulbs. I've always wondered if one brand has a better spectrum. PAR/w would reflect that (much less costly than a spectrometer).
I measured lux (lumens falling on a spot) because I figure household LED lightbulbs don't vary much in their "spectrum." I've used Phillips, GE and Cree. None have stood out to me as better or worse (in terms of what I see in the plant's growth). But, there probably is differences.
Like you said, I think people focus on watts, or just what a lightbulb's label says (which is lumens radiated into space, not representative of reflecting the light). There's *so* much that can be done (like removing the diffusion globe; reflecting; distributing the watts around the plant vs single-source top-down lighting). All those things create efficiency more than a better binned diode. The way household LED lightbulbs have their LEDs facing the same direction. Removing the plastic diffusion globe is a 300% improvement (without even using a reflector). To me, that's like low-hanging fruit. $5 and a hacksaw -- and you're delivering a ton of cheap light to the plant.
I really believe distributing the watts around the plant creates a significant efficiency (compared to top-down, single-point lighting). That was one thing I found demotivating about the way grow-lights adopted COB LED technology. I'd rather have a large fixture with 100 3w diodes than a single fisheye. (I'd rather have two fixtures with 50 3w diodes, etc.).
I actually had the idea (but never the motivation to try this): insert LED strip lighting *into* the canopy! Light it from within. Keep inserting 2w strips as the plant grows. The idea being to feed each leaf directly.
That's probably taking a good idea (distributing watts around the plant for better coverage) to an extreme. But, there are low-watt "corncob" bulbs made with SMD5630. Those are fairly efficient diodes @ 110L/w. (They were 3-4 years ago, the last time I looked into this topic.). I've always wondered how inserting some of those into the canopy might help. They're not powerful enough to burn/bleach. Everything I've seen (surrounding a plant with light) makes me think that could be a real winner. Instead of surrounding the plant with watts, insert a few within it!
But, it would be nice to have *definitive* knowledge of which household LED lightbulb has the best spectrum (best PAR output).
I got out of this topic 3-4 years ago. The lights definitely produce. I got dense buds, and the smoke was potent. I don't know many people who would complain. But, it lacked something compare to T5HO and CMH. Something about the UV, I think. I planned to buy a PAR meter and continue adding data to those documents I linked to. In fact, I was liking the lightbulbs better than the typical LED grow-light fixtures because it seemed less "secret sauce."
A lot of the grow-light fixtures are hyped. They could be better than others. But, you never know for sure. Instead of hundreds of dollars for a proprietary "trust me" fixture, $5 for a lightbulb. It seemed very counter-culture (compared to what everyone was doing). You have your kelvin color temperature available to you. You have distributed watts around the plant (a far greater efficiency than any secret-sauce spectrum). It's like the opposite of what people are doing. Simple, cheap, locally available at any hardware store. No man behind the curtain.
I still recommend it to new growers. It's definitely cost-efficient for sidelighting/supplementing "real" fixtures.
Do you have the same Philips LED & GE Brightstik lightbulbs where you're at? I'd really like to know if one has a better spectrum than the other (i.e., PAR/w). That's the one unknown ("trust me") about this. I've seen them grow very well at 20w/sq ft. I assume the spectrum must be good. But, it's still an unknown.
PS: I'm going to have the flexible/spider fixture "how-to" put up in the next day or two. That will be the last of the blogs I had (my accumulated thoughts back when I was doing this stuff.). Check the folder for that later. You're welcome to use any of that.
That also looks nice and easy(and on topic) but I think,like you mentioned ,that it can be positioned way lower judging by the plants stretch.....But its cool:)https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/super-cheap-led-veg-light.93296/
PAR/watt, Do you mean PPFD/watt or PPF/watt (PPE)?
If you have links to any of the bulbs you are interested in having tested, I could see if it is practical for me to buy/order and test them
Aah, I see. Yes, what is most practical is to see the PPFD/watt, IMO.I believe PPFD (the amount of umoles falling on a surface) is the equivalent of lux (the amount of visible lightto the human eye, or lumens, falling on a surface ).
Wherase PPF is umoles emitted in all directions (total umoles, regardless of whether it lands where you want it to), the equivalent of lumens (light visible to the human eye, generated by a source in all directions). Both require a specialized integrating sphere to measure every bit of light?
Do you have the ability to measure PPF? Even if you could, it wouldn't be too meaningful because growers are more interested in light reaching a plant?
I'd have to look into this further. It appeas Cree & Philips changed their bulbs from what I was using before. Cree looks not so good right now (L/w). But, maybe Cree has a better spectrum. The basic Philips bulbs don't look as good either. The "Warm Glow" (dimming) looks similar (L/w) to what I've been using (bulbs purchased a few years ago). Phlilips has a "pro" line which looks like what they used to sell to consumers (higher L/w).
The only bulb which looks like it's remained the same is the GE Brightstik. That's the one which seemed the most directional (after removing the plastic diffusion dome). A reflector didn't help it much.
It would be useful to know which bulbs are the "best" (L/w or PPFD/w). But, I suspect that wouldn't apply globally. Different areas of the world have different brands, product lines.
Do you have any thoughts on the best PAR meter? Maybe I'll buy one. It would be easier for me to test local bulbs than for you to order them. It sounds like one of those activities that would have to be continually done because manufacturers change their products so often. A "best lightbulb of the year" sort of thing.
I use the Apogee MQ-500 when I test, both for household bulbs and our own grow lights.
Awesome!I just ordered one.
Let me know what you think
How much are you guys spending setting up these lights? Just seems like it may be close to what it would cost to build a cob light, which is more efficient and puts out less heat.
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