Dojoking said:

HPS lost the gram per watt battle in this LED vs HPS comparison.


Just pointing it out, since people seem to still be acting like led can't compete. I think it depends on what the growers environment and needs are as to whether they should use HID or LED. Small space? Large space? Hot? Cold? My point is they each have their own application and LED technology is advancing at a pretty fast pace and just might surpass HID in every way in the near future.

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Initial investment is a critical factor too. LEDs need to come down in price before they become serious competitors.

Intense said:

Initial investment is a critical factor too. LEDs need to come down in price before they become serious competitors.

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I can definitely agree with the price needing to come down but. Someone asked for proof of an led competing with hids and I think that video is a good example showing that they can compete. All new technology starts out with a higher price than the older tech. It will come down in time.

I agree, with further development and more feasible pricing, LEDs will outstrip HIDs in the near future. I still don't think that's here, one video is hardly conclusive, but it's getting there.

using the phillips 2 wire bulb i cut 4k out of my room, less power, less cooling,more bang for my buck and makes my setup easier to manage epspecially during summer months

Intense said:

Initial investment is a critical factor too. LEDs need to come down in price before they become serious competitors.

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Since we discussed the HPS vs. LED video here I thought you guys might be interested in this. The grower that did the HPS vs. LED test on youtube has a grow thread on another forum. He recently sent off an HPS & LED bud to be tested at a lab. Here are his results:

"HEAD TO HEAD...LED then HPS

CANNABINOIDS: Total: LED=27% HPS=25%

THCA: L=25%, H=22%
THCAC4: L=0.74%, H=0.74%
D9THC: L=1.7%, H=2.0%
D8THC: L=0.11%, H=0.095%
CBNA: L=0.091%, H=0.081%
CBDA: L=0.08%, H=0.067%
CBCA: L=0.047%, H=0.046%
CBGA: L=0.23%, H=0.13%
CBG: L=0.15%, H=0.13%

TERPENES:
Terpinolene: L=0.087, H=0.13
Linalool: L=0.089, H=0.088
Beta-Myrcene: L=0.63, H=0.51
Alpha Pinene: L=0.58,H=0.59
Limonene: L=0.098, H=ND

Notice how limonene isn't even detectable in the hps sample."

This LED argument seems to always pop up,lets not even talk price,dont you think if LED was all that and a bag of chips every commercial grower here would be using them?Or are they all too stupid to see the light?One dudes grow on youtube(who probably works for or is sponsored by an LED company) and thats a reason to throw HPS away?lol.How do we know that those are real test results or the buds werent switched?Dont be so naive,LED companies are known for their marketing hype,its all they have at this point.I will go out on a limb here and say its my opinion you have something to do with an LED company too,you have 28 posts on this board and almost EVERY POST is hyping LED lights except one that has to do with sonic stimulation?Arent you interested in anything else besides LEDs? or do you have an agenda? because your posting history sure looks like you do.I apologize if im wrong but you go back and look at your history and tell me im wrong for coming to that conclusion.

fishwhistle said:

This LED argument seems to always pop up,lets not even talk price,dont you think if LED was all that and a bag of chips every commercial grower here would be using them?Or are they all too stupid to see the light?One dudes grow on youtube(who probably works for or is sponsored by an LED company) and thats a reason to throw HPS away?lol.How do we know that those are real test results or the buds werent switched?Dont be so naive,LED companies are known for their marketing hype,its all they have at this point.I will go out on a limb here and say its my opinion you have something to do with an LED company too,you have 28 posts on this board and almost EVERY POST is hyping LED lights except one that has to do with sonic stimulation?Arent you interested in anything else besides LEDs? or do you have an agenda? because your posting history sure looks like you do.I apologize if im wrong but you go back and look at your history and tell me im wrong for coming to that conclusion.

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Why are you so defensive when it comes to your precious HID? I am not saying to throw away your HID, because LED is to expensive especially for a commercial grower at the moment. Yes, the price for a quality LED fixture is high (just like any new technology), but to say that LED can't compete with HID in every other category is a false statement. Not to mention that LED technology is still advancing year after year and will become cheaper as the tech becomes more prevalent. Yes, there are a lot of led companies that use to and still do oversell and hype their products but. If you pay attention to the details and know what to look for you can usually see a bullshit company for what they truly are. Do you think that just because led wasn't effective in the past it will not be effective in the future? Technology is always advancing, new ways of designing things are always being created and improved upon but. I guess you are just one of those people that gets stuck in their ways and doesn't like change. Otherwise, you would be more accepting of my posts and their content. As far as the comment about me working for the led company and hyping leds is concerned. You obviously glanced at my postings page and didn't read any of the content. If you had you would have seen the posts about plasma and ceramic technology but. I guess that means I am working for Rocket Plasma, Alphalite, Gavita, Philips, & don't forget Biowave. I am sorry my friend but. That limb you just went out on to say I have something to do with an led company has snapped and you have fallen. Don't be so naive? I believe you should take your own advice and actually read my posts before spouting off like you know my intentions of being here. Your conclusion is wrong. As far as the guy that did the HPS vs. LED thread is concerned. I don't personally know him so I can't vouch for him working for an led company or not (mainly because there is no way for me to prove it either way without knowing him personally and for the record I don't think he does) but after following his grow thread and videos I can tell you that he isn't someone that overstates things. Maybe you should read his grow threads and watch his videos before spouting off about someone you know nothing about.

I am someone that believes in using technology to become more efficient. So I have been reading quite a bit about new lighting technology lately and to be perfectly honest I am probably going to be buying a "Rocket Plasma" and Gavita plasma fixture for myself. You can read through my previous posts for information on those if you don't know what they are. I posted in this thread because it is a thread about the current state of lighting which is pretty much the topic that I have been focused on lately when on the internet. I posted the HPS vs. LED video because someone in this thread asked for proof that LED can compete with HID. I posted the lab results because we discussed the HPS vs LED video here and thought others in this thread might be interested because it is interesting. Whether you believe the lab results and the video I posted is not my concern but. It is the closest i can get to showing LED can compete (maybe not in price at the moment) without an official study or each of us here in this thread doing our own LED vs HPS grow videos and getting lab results because you obviously don't trust anyone else and their results when you are presented with them on a grow forum. There is another grow forum that I can't mention (bc of thcfamer rules) with an entire section dedicated to LED and other types of lighting besides HID. There you will find many led grow threads (mainly personal grows) with people even building their own fixtures with cutting edge led technology (including the guy that did the HPS vs LED video and lab results).

Dojoking said:

HPS lost the gram per watt battle in this LED vs HPS comparison.


Just pointing it out, since people seem to still be acting like led can't compete. I think it depends on what the growers environment and needs are as to whether they should use HID or LED. Small space? Large space? Hot? Cold? My point is they each have their own application and LED technology is advancing at a pretty fast pace and just might surpass HID in every way in the near future.

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Thanks for that. This is good, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things. For one, it's a Youtube video. I inherently mistrust anything on Youtube - there's nothing to verify the authenticity of what's being shown and no credible peer-review system to back it up. I expect LEDs will improve in time and perhaps they will outperform HIDs consistently at some point, but that's not the case at present.

LordVane said:

Thanks for that. This is good, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things. For one, it's a Youtube video. I inherently mistrust anything on Youtube - there's nothing to verify the authenticity of what's being shown and no credible peer-review system to back it up. I expect LEDs will improve in time and perhaps they will outperform HIDs consistently at some point, but that's not the case at present.

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In my opinion, one of the main reasons there is such a disparity in quality of cannabis through out most of the led fixtures made in the past is because of the spectrum and all the different variables that come into play when you have so many different diode and color choices. A lot of led fixtures in the past were simply made with just red & blue diodes but. Today, most of the good led companies are realizing that they need a full spectrum and are leaning more towards a white diode with red or blue diodes mixed in depending on whether the fixture is meant for flowering or vegetative stages. Or some of them are just going with a completely white diode setup like 2700k or 3000k for flowering and a higher color temperature like 6500k for vegetative. Once more led companies figure out the spectrum side of things and use quality parts along with quality diodes the consistency of quality cannabis should follow. The At600 fixture used in the video is nothing special. They are just one of the 1st led companies to make a led fixture with quality parts and a spectrum that works. Any led company has the capability to produce a fixture with similar results. Just use quality parts and copy the spectrum which 3:2 white to red color ratio if I remember correctly. Growers House tested the spectrum and par reading. I would love to see these guys do a test on the Rocket Plasma as well.