The Law Adds Hydrogen To Co2 In Oregon Lolz

[EugeneOregon]

Here is a copy paste from Oregon Statute that tries to define for us what is and what is not legal. I look up from time to time the law so I understand it and keep legal.

HOWEVER....something jumped out at me after vaping my morning bag of highly refined oil. This is a fun thing but I have to ask; look at the last line I pasted below...... since when is carbon dioxide a "hydrocarbon-based" solvent??? There is "carbon" in it - one atom. There is "oxygen" in it - two atoms. There aint no "hydrogen" in it - zero atoms.

CO2 is not a hydrocarbon. So how can it be the solvent they are talking about?

"BALLOT MEASURE 91 OPERATIVE JANUARY 1, 2016 (Definitions)
SECTION 1. Section 5, chapter 1, Oregon Laws 2015, is amended to read:
Sec. 5. As used in sections 3 to 70, chapter 1, Oregon Laws 2015 [of this Act]:
[(1) “Authority” means the Oregon Health Au- thority.]
[(2) “Commission” means the Oregon Liquor Con- trol Commission.]
[(3)] (1) “Consumer” means a person who pur- chases, acquires, owns, holds[,] or uses marijuana items other than for the purpose of resale.
(2) “Cannabinoid” means any of the chemical compounds that are the active constituents of marijuana.
(3) “Cannabinoid concentrate” means a sub- stance obtained by separating cannabinoids from marijuana by:
(a) A mechanical extraction process;
(b) A chemical extraction process using a nonhydrocarbon-based or other solvent, such as water, vegetable glycerin, vegetable oils, animal fats, isopropyl alcohol or ethanol;
(c) A chemical extraction process using the hydrocarbon-based solvent carbon dioxide,"

 

[Graywolf]

We called them on it at the time to no avail.

 

[DGP]

Oregon is interested only in money. The attempt here is to ban all extraction not for safety but for revenue colection from the big boys who have the money and resources for the permits, equipment and all required by the state. If you notice even mechanical is banned. You can light up ethanol on your baked Alaska dessert or other Flambeau dish but you can't extract your own RSO.

I too read all the laws and attempt to keep it all legal but it is really difficult in Oregon. Regardless of the laws people here still blow themselves up regularly anyway, but again it isn't about safety it's about the expansion and revenue of government.

 

[DemonTrich]

So what if I owned a soda/pop place. The stupid ass ppl gonna put hydrogen I to my co2 I use for my fountain machine

Now I did not Google or read up on what H does to co2 when added for growing uses.


And into the flaming ethanol comment. I worked in a few restaurants that served saganaki. It's a cheese dish you pour brandy on and set It ablaze in front of the customer. Seen many of ceiling tiles and plastic plants take the brunt of the fire. But one can' extract.


Pot - kettle - black!

 

[DGP]

The way the law reads you can't even make canna butter without becoming a felon.

 

[Graywolf]

Oregon is interested only in money. The attempt here is to ban all extraction not for safety but for revenue colection from the big boys who have the money and resources for the permits, equipment and all required by the state. If you notice even mechanical is banned. You can light up ethanol on your baked Alaska dessert or other Flambeau dish but you can't extract your own RSO.

I too read all the laws and attempt to keep it all legal but it is really difficult in Oregon. Regardless of the laws people here still blow themselves up regularly anyway, but again it isn't about safety it's about the expansion and revenue of government.

Behaviorism 101 tells us that when a drive is thwarted, the intensity of the drive increases, and Economics 101 tells us that when the open market is thwarted, the black market steps in to fill the niche.

One of the arguments in favor of passing Measure 91, was to stop arresting and locking up folks over cannabis related issues. Making it a Class B felony to extract outside a permitted facility, reduced but didn't eliminate extractors doing so, so will require that we also hire or justify the continued existence and retain more existing LEOs, guards, and prisons.

It also only stopped the extractors whom obey the law. The percentage of those operating outside the law (outlaws) that don't pay attention to pesticides, molds, extraction safety, or finishing, is higher than in the general populous, because it also contains the risk takers and the sociopaths.

Another argument for passing Measure 91 was state income, and of course all the locals had to jump in with their own taxes, again against what was voted in, which drove the legal market prices high enough to absolutely insure continued black market activity, again loading up our courts and prisons.

Better quality control was also a feature selling Measure 91, which it did where monitored, making them more expensive, but not within the portion pushed into the black market by the abnormally high prices of both quality control and taxes.

Then came increased OMMP fees to pay for monitoring of growers for strict seed to market accounting, to insure the medical growers were not supplying the recreational market.

Now enter the feds, who are saying their their audits suggest that Oregon is producing more cannabis than we are consuming, leading to questions of exactly where it might be going, so we can expect to be saddled with even more controls, fees, and paperwork.

As a tongue in cheek thought, consider the California gold rush and who actually ended up with all the money. I certainly wasn't the miners, or the whores, it was the mining corporations, the whiskey, food, clothing, and equipment suppliers, and the banks.

Large big money mining corporations and banks are mostly sewed up, leaving most opportunities in the supply market for equipment, processing, packaging, doo dads, bling, etc.

Some of us dreamers envisioned cannabis in Oregon following the micro brewery and estate wine profile, so as to effectively compete with large corporations. How naive of us to to not consider where the lure of money by government and big money would take us.

 

[DGP]

Graywolf,

Everything you said makes sense except one thing I wonder about, the price seems very depressed in OR so how can the black market prices being high enough to motivate people to go that direction? For a while it had dropped to $100/oz for street weed. Recently though I saw that number trending up towards about $130.

Yeah the OMMP registration fees, new limits and tracking system (if you are not growing just for your own med card but have one other person) is really oppressive. People cant afford to grow for more than themselves in general because of the CTS (cannabis tracking system) requirements (label machine and software etc.). Seems like these changes might make it nearly impossible to find a grower for a card holder. Just the registration fees and my doctor bill makes me consider going to just 4 personal rec plants but if you do that you can only have 4 plants and cant even run a continuous cycle. I believe it is 4 plants max regardless of size.

Also, unless you are a master grower it can be hard to cycle 6 plants through often enough (with a good enough yield) to keep a person that uses a lot of RSO in medication.

Very frustrating. I follow the rules but it isn't easy.

Dee

 

[Graywolf]

Graywolf,

Everything you said makes sense except one thing I wonder about, the price seems very depressed in OR so how can the black market prices being high enough to motivate people to go that direction? For a while it had dropped to $100/oz for street weed. Recently though I saw that number trending up towards about $130.

Yeah the OMMP registration fees, new limits and tracking system (if you are not growing just for your own med card but have one other person) is really oppressive. People cant afford to grow for more than themselves in general because of the CTS (cannabis tracking system) requirements (label machine and software etc.). Seems like these changes might make it nearly impossible to find a grower for a card holder. Just the registration fees and my doctor bill makes me consider going to just 4 personal rec plants but if you do that you can only have 4 plants and cant even run a continuous cycle. I believe it is 4 plants max regardless of size.

Also, unless you are a master grower it can be hard to cycle 6 plants through often enough (with a good enough yield) to keep a person that uses a lot of RSO in medication.

Very frustrating. I follow the rules but it isn't easy.

Dee

The price is depressed all around because of the production surplus. It is still significantly cheaper to grow and supply without meeting all the OMMP requirements and paying the taxes, just not as profitable as it once was.

 

[EugeneOregon]

The price is depressed all around because of the production surplus. It is still significantly cheaper to grow and supply without meeting all the OMMP requirements and paying the taxes, just not as profitable as it once was.

History repeats itself again and again my friend.

Historically whenever a tax on ANYTHiNG exceeds about 10% then a thriving black market develops. Any value added tax above about 4% in any culture dating back centuries of recorded history has nearly always resulted in diminishing returns on the tax.

As the tax increases then so does the profit motive for those who accept the risk of legal consequences. For some the risk level is no factor when rent has to be paid, food has to be bought, and the kids need clothes - and the only jobs to be had on the open market pay enough that with two jobs and scrimping you can make it all work. There will always be those willing to accept legal risk for a better life and it becomes profitable when the government limits the cheap supply of goods by taxing those goods individually. For consumers the choice between an ounce for $100 or an ounce after taxes and extra expense for $180 is a pretty simple choice in a state were every 7/11 clerk seems to have a "friend" who needs some cash and the product is grown in every third house on the block....EASY to find and get because anyone can grow it lolz.

I believe in Oregon the value added tax is set at 25% BUT it is actually MUCH greater. This is because in order to comply with the tax requirements it takes significant expense in cost and labor. This cost itself once added in is taxed at that same 25%.

The only way to kill the black market is to kill the value added tax and dispense with the absurdity of tracking each individual plant! What lunacy! Imagine imposing that same idea on a drug known to kill MILLIONS - tobacco, and which is addictive but good golly somehow managed to stay off the Controlled Substances Act list..... The system is unworkable because the 10% of producers who want to stay legal will (because of the tax) never succeed long because customers nearly always select the better value for themselves and screw what society thinks (a core capitalist concept).

 

[progeny-prodigy]

lol 100$ an oz is low? black market here in cali prices for outdoor dropped to 400$/lbs. the issue is not enough places to sell legally. its funny its been the opposite here in cali in regards to co2 vs bho cause our laws use to hav the term "solvent" defined as a hydrocarbon so co2 wasnt even included as a solvent extraction which is also laughable. they also specifically disinclude alcohol from the hydrocarbon category even tho last time i check the definition of alcohols was an oh group ATTACHED TO A HYDROCARBON tail. it would be hilarious if it wasnt going to be used as a justification for locking people in cages.

 

[DGP]

History repeats itself again and again my friend.

Historically whenever a tax on ANYTHiNG exceeds about 10% then a thriving black market develops. Any value added tax above about 4% in any culture dating back centuries of recorded history has nearly always resulted in diminishing returns on the tax.

As the tax increases then so does the profit motive for those who accept the risk of legal consequences. For some the risk level is no factor when rent has to be paid, food has to be bought, and the kids need clothes - and the only jobs to be had on the open market pay enough that with two jobs and scrimping you can make it all work. There will always be those willing to accept legal risk for a better life and it becomes profitable when the government limits the cheap supply of goods by taxing those goods individually. For consumers the choice between an ounce for $100 or an ounce after taxes and extra expense for $180 is a pretty simple choice in a state were every 7/11 clerk seems to have a "friend" who needs some cash and the product is grown in every third house on the block....EASY to find and get because anyone can grow it lolz.

I believe in Oregon the value added tax is set at 25% BUT it is actually MUCH greater. This is because in order to comply with the tax requirements it takes significant expense in cost and labor. This cost itself once added in is taxed at that same 25%.

The only way to kill the black market is to kill the value added tax and dispense with the absurdity of tracking each individual plant! What lunacy! Imagine imposing that same idea on a drug known to kill MILLIONS - tobacco, and which is addictive but good golly somehow managed to stay off the Controlled Substances Act list..... The system is unworkable because the 10% of producers who want to stay legal will (because of the tax) never succeed long because customers nearly always select the better value for themselves and screw what society thinks (a core capitalist concept).

Was in the local hydro shop the other day and they were unloading Ryder truck of over 300 Spyder LED systems (wow). I said to the owner that looks like a million dollars worth of lights and he said no they were cheap. Turns out a big licensed grow failed to produce a crop and went bust so they sold all the equipment and packed it in. I heard 3 runs and no product, seems hard to beleive they couldn't get anything marketable out in 3 attempts. Guess they didn't count on the market dropping and growing on a large scale was harder than they thought. I could just hear it in my head, they were probably saying we are going to make a pile of money!

With all the new money coming in but no skills I am surprised the market still functions. Must be the underground experienced growers that are holding up the market. I do know the local dispensories are buying from the black market as well and just havent been caught....yet. Some of them told me they are having trouble with supply, especially quality supply and this can only be happening if the majority of the growers out there are selling directly to consumers locally. So, there is a glut on the market but the dispenseries are having trouble getting good supplies? Seems crazy.

I just grow for myself with one card (me) and just try to stay outta the fray.

Dee

 

[progeny-prodigy]

lol 100$ an oz is low? black market here in cali prices for outdoor dropped to 400$/lbs. the issue is not enough places to sell legally. its funny its been the opposite here in cali in regards to co2 vs bho cause our laws use to hav the term "solvent" defined as a hydrocarbon so co2 wasnt even included as a solvent extraction which is also laughable. they also specifically disinclude alcohol from the hydrocarbon category even tho last time i check the definition of alcohols was an oh group ATTACHED TO A HYDROCARBON tail. it would be hilarious if it wasnt going to be used as a justification for locking people in cages.