The Lounge Of Methods Old Growers Vs The World

[whitepistols]

Okay lets fire this off see how far it can go.

I know I am far from the only person feeling the frustration recently so lets put it hear, work through it.

Why the frustration its from trying to pass the torch along from the advanced grower to the newer growers. It why we do things the way we do, terminology,methods,practices, ect.. hydro and soil

Theres no going to be much for topic boundries anything is fair game.

Understand that I may come off gruff but I am not attacking any one person. So please check yourself and the attitude on the way in. If your thin skin nature, or have a hard time being told something and accepting it all I got to say is your going to learn.

I do not have all the answers and I am going to rely on others for input. Dont be timid, and do not pigeon hole yourself at the same time. Open that brain up and air out the issues. The intent is to raise people up , not destroy them.

 

[whitepistols]

Organics....

You may have read I hate this term. If you did then if thats how you grow you proboly put a wall up.
There always has been a line between the 2 methods and there should not be at all.
The reason I hate the word organics is alot of growers hide behind it, twist it and turn it to suit them. Theres alot that pigeon hole themselves with that term.

Pigeon holing is when you lock yourself into 1 area and refuse to give anything outside of that comfort zone any respect or research.
Organic vs bottle nutes
Alot think there is a differance between these 2. Alot of arguments wich is better.

End of the day nitrate nitrogen is nitrate. The plant doesnt know if its salt or if its animal manure. I have been banned a shit load of times from hear and ic mag trying to get this through peoples heads.

Organics uses biology,time and the carbon/ nitrogen ratio to break it down to a useable form for the plant. Salts are already in a viable form for plant uptake.

The word salts dont let that sway you. Salt is just a method of adding positive and negative ions.

Your animal by products have salt in them they by no way are salt free. Every animal has salt in them. That salt is residual in blood, bone, exo skelatons ect. If you go to box store buy gypsum vs a ag retailer that box store gypsum is salty. Reason I know is from people posting soil tests and they go on a rampage about how did I load the sodium in when I am not using salt base ferts.

Theres a hundred ways I can go. Here is just a primer for the thread so lay it down and see where this goes

 

[whitepistols]

@Thejoeybrown
@Organikz

 

[indicabush]

This is going to be epic (hoping)...as to I have been wondering what happened to old or ancient farming methods, concepts and techniques.

 

[Thejoeybrown]

This should be good. Get some good info out there

 

[tifosi]

I have used both types with success and find there is nothing wrong with mixing chemicals in for a quick fix with your organic grow. Growers are switching to organic to save soil for future grows as the price of weed drops here on the west coast.

 

[indicabush]

inorganic (synthetic) with organic...isn't this contradictory?

 

[Dutch Jon]

inorganic (synthetic) with organic...isn't this contradictory?

It all depends what pigeon hole your in lol

 

[Organikz]

@whitepistols you're absolutely right. Where is the natural farming with an incandescent light section? I like Edison lights.

I'm messing around and you are absolutely right. The plants take up nitrates period. That's it. Do we all have the time to play mad scientist? It's the matter of force feeding vs letting the plant dictate uptake.

Please enlighten on the subject. This is your thread after all. How does a plant dictate nutrient uptake? Please explain the whole process.

Hydro bud posted in my Natural farming journal

Organically grown (with Edison light)
Still a week or 2 from harvest

See the difference. Green bud = hot smoke. Organic ends up white and you may see a green tinge from the right angle

Truth is a plant doesnt need nutrients or sugar water or any if that crap during this stage. Respiration is key. Carbon fixing.

 

[Organikz]

"Senescence is for the weak" is what Gnome says.

Senescence is for people who understand it's necessary for a proper flush. In fact it's so natural at other forums they haven't coined a term besides a fade.

 

[Organikz]

I wanted to mention this is only a debate. Any arguing that may ensue is strictly for the means of education. I've explained active debates are the best means of gaining higher learning.

Everyone be open minded. No name calling.

@whitepistols is a very respectable hydroponics grower. We will be giving each other much hell. We do understand our methods are suited to preference, lifestyle, and basically how we were taught. If I tried hydro it would be a disaster and I know that. Problems escalate too quickly. Living Soil gives me some cushion.


My mummy was a hippy chick turned horticulturist. My grandpa worked a garden. Everything was done with compost. New available amendments do bring a little something to the table such as kelp meal, neem seed meal, and malted barley powder(not new but recently found to be quite beneficial). When i was first learning my mom actually assisted me with my first grow in high school. It was outdoor and had to be topped 5 times and still grew 7 ft tall. Basically only blood meal and bone meal available at the time. Some like chocolate, some vanilla.

As he mentioned this is an open thread where all views should be expressed without belittling. I don't want mods to take this wrong.

I would like to mention tbone shuffle at GC. The guys a beast. He uses bottled nutes. He only uses bloom, micro, and molasses from start to finish and his results are crazy.

 

[Dutch Jon]

I would like to mention tbone shuffle at GC. The guys a beast. He uses bottled nutes. He only uses bloom, micro, and molasses from start to finish and his results are crazy.

Nice examples above organikz
I'd like to mention as we all know nice grows come in all shapes and sizes and what we're or I should I've been learning lately is is the importance of environmental factors I surmise to say one weeker area in the environment might be air exchange and vapor density I'm guilty of this,
point being it is difficult to determine the quality of a style or the nutreints of a grow with such a large variable as environment playing a role.

I'll have to check out this tbone guy over at GC thanks organikz

 

[Dutch Jon]

Why the frustration its from trying to pass the torch along from the advanced grower to the newer growers. It why we do things the way we do, terminology,methods,practices, ect.. hydro and soil

Here we go terminology, as a user of an nutrient line, (no not Advanced Nutrients) that's support Biologicals that is 90% natural I refuse to use the word organic.
So the term synthetic IMO is used by some to slam an oppositional view. The use of this word 'synthetic' is incorrect. I know indicabush just used this term but he used it for the sake of understanding because in usage it is used incorrectly.

Synthetic is a replacement ie vinyl for leather, nylon and polyester for cotton they are actual different substances than something originally used.
So the correct term for mineral fertilizers should be refined instead of 'synthetics' as whitepistols nicely pointed out earlier using nitrate as an example.
Edit: OK I'm now going to stop being a blabbermouth

 

[indicabush]

Terminology (new terminology) can be sketchy and down right confusing to the uninitiated.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I prefer "chemical based" to "natural based"

Organic is a marketing term. You have to pay a company to certify your stuff for a label.

And I see bottled "organics" as a hybrid as they are processed.

 

[indicabush]

Hmmm...so indoor grows can be considered "hybrid" because of artificial lighting...just a thought.

Combining two different elements such as soil and "Edison." @Organikz ...I like that "Edison". So are individuals really growing organically indoors or is this just another feel good scenario?

Frankly, I just say that I'm a clean grower when indoors.

 

[Dutch Jon]

How do you like ionic to replace 'inorganic' for terminology, now there's a word that scared the piss out of someone that doesn't know any better . . but then again A rose by any other name is still a gay ass flower LOL

 

[Organikz]

I prefer "chemical based" to "natural based"

Organic is a marketing term. You have to pay a company to certify your stuff for a label.

And I see bottled "organics" as a hybrid as they are processed.

Yep. I listened to a livecast with Clackamas. He explains that OMRI listed doesn't mean anything but they are on the list to become certified. They can fail and reapply and continue to put this deceiving label on the bottle.

I read on Neptune harvest that phosphoric acid and potassium hydroxide which means...not organic. Inorganic chemicals have to be used to stabilize and process any bottled organic matter.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Hmmm...so indoor grows can be considered "hybrid" because of artificial lighting...just a thought.

Combining two different elements such as soil and "Edison." @Organikz ...I like that "Edison". So are individuals really growing organically indoors or is this just another feel good scenario?

Frankly, I just say that I'm a clean grower when indoors.

Should the plasma growers call their Grow Tesla?

 

[MIMedGrower]

Yep. I listened to a livecast with Clackamas. He explains that OMRI listed doesn't mean anything but they are on the list to become certified. They can fail and reapply and continue to put this deceiving label on the bottle.

I read on Neptune harvest that phosphoric acid and potassium hydroxide which means...not organic. Inorganic chemicals have to be used to stabilize and process any bottled organic matter.

Yes the use of hydroxide is what keeps pure Blend Pro from being "organic" too.