The New Smart Electric Meters

[ttystikk]

@soundiceuk - You are jacking the thread with you advertising. Please stop, or at least make your own thread.

Calbunn - This is all somewhat disturbing news, and yet not totally surprising. I'm sure that it is totally open to eventual abuse, but I'm tempted to think that it's also a technique to simply baffle customers with new and improved bullshit. "Sorry sir, but the [totally re-programmable] robot says that you've used this much electricity and you can't prove otherwise. Computers don't lie, so cough up." Yeah, and neither do slot machines... I will be buying a TED meter as soon as I save my pennies.

What it made me think of, however, was a potential solution. You being an electrically oriented sort of dude, can you critique the idea? Basically I'm envisioning an expanded trickle charger for a motorcycle battery. You plug it into an outlet, a timer turns on the charger during user-defined hours and tops up the battery and then automatically shuts of when full (or when it gets more expensive again), your lights draw from the battery instead of the grid itself. I'm sure that voltage conversion comes into play along with a bunch of other issues, but it seems like it would kill two or more birds at once:
-Program it to charge when juice costs the least
-Avoid leaving a trail consisting of sketchy usage patterns
-Use only the electricity you need
-Doesn't have an RFID so it's invisible to the Electric Co
-Draws only a little juice at any given time so it doesn't stand out

I dunno how to deal with the whole RF appliance link issue, but maybe this erases it from the beginning. What say you?

The problem with this approach, irrespective of savings from what hours one charges their batteries, is that batteries do not have 100% efficiency in storing/releasing their energy. In fact, it's between 60-75%. So much for the savings... It was a good idea though!

I do like the solar powered approach, but I'd do it backwards; sell the daylight power genrated by your solar array to the power company, at peak rates, then run your op at night on the cheap rate. I think you'd come out further ahead, since you're not using a battery but the power grid as your 'storage' device.

 

[swisscheese]

Sounds like something I don't want to ever have installed on my house.

 

[calbunn]

Two points today.

1) Conventional batteries all have a chemical reaction and will require replacement within a certain amt of charges and discharges. There is a better way.

It involves quantum physics and nanotechnology that is a project we're working on under an NDA so there is only so much we can discuss as more patent pendings become actual patents. I can say that China does not have this and the technology will be mfg'd here in the USA. It does not require any exotic rare metals materials and ultimately it will be less then 2% of the cost to mfg then current lithium-ion batteries, 5% of their weight and have an unlimited duty cycle. The market opportunities are truly and absolutely mind boggling. Tesla would be proud. More to come...

2) Forgive me if my previous post on Holder went off topic but I had to air it somewhere and if there is one thing I like about this community is that there is a real sense of 'what's really at work here'. A healthy dose of skepticism in a world of spoon fed media is liberating, rewarding and the price for true freedom. At a minimum that goes for how our new electric meters will be charging us. So the skepticism I hold for the utilities does cut a wider path.

Such as: The drug money was carted around in duffel bags or more unusual containers. In one instance, $109,000 was dropped off to an undercover DEA agent in a detergent bucket. The money was deposited into the DEA-controlled bank account and then wired to the drug-trafficking network’s account in New York.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/dec/10/san-diego-drug-case-involves-dea-money-laundering/

'Say it ain't so, Joe' :fighting0003:

 

[calbunn]

Got to see a working utility model today of the new smart house with the all the appliances, the electric car the solar and wind combo all coming together under the smart meter Time of Use billing program. All in all it was very interesting and strangely coincidental considering this thread. I left thinking that the prism of government intrusion, all in the name of 'going green' looms large. But to a small degree they lifted their skirts a bit and saw the dichotomy in making laws and surcharges that apply to after the fact purchases of systems that were designed to reduce or even eliminate the need for total grid dependence.

While I still digest everything I saw today I'm left with the feeling that hopefully these new integrated smart systems have remedied the previous checks and balances that were in place on Sept 2011 wherein 1.4 million So CA customers were subjected to an 18+hr power outage that was, we've been told, caused by a single utility workers failure, in a remote AZ substation, to follow procedural guidelines.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/power-company-employee-caused-massive-blackout-utility-says.html

Interestingly enough, just a year earlier a single trader with 'big fat fingers' mistakenly hit the wrong key on his keyboard thereby causing a massive crash of the stock market. The trader speaking on condition of anonymity responded with; 'oops'.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-05-06/wall_street/30092702_1_high-frequency-trading-cnbc-acn

I left feeling much better knowing that the doling out of the energy we'll be able to use while allowing them to see into our usage patterns is being handled by such technically adroit teams of engineers. However I still have some concerns over the errant utility worker or overweight traders.

 

[calbunn]

In regards to today's Justice Departments notices in Colorado I was unfortunately reminded of my prior post of just a month ago.

On December 12th Eric Holder testifies as to the Justice Depts position on Colorado dispensaries where they are operating within the States standards would not utilize 'limited Federal resources as a priority' to intervene in enforcement of Federal law that would prohibit the distribution of marijuana that has been allowed under strict state guidelines which would allow those licensed dispensaries to legally do business under state law.

This is a must watch video: http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/12/holder-proves-once-again-that-he-is-not

Today we see that the Justice Dept's Colorado position may have shifted somewhat which prompted the official response from the local elected as follows;

Kathy Haddock, Boulder's senior assistant city attorney, said today that the city was not made aware of the federal letters ahead of time. But she said there's nothing the city can do to stop the enforcement.

"We don't have any standing to come in and stop the feds," she said. "They can do what they want."

Laura Kriho, director of the Boulder-based Cannabis Therapy Institute, said she was not surprised to hear about the feds taking action.

"I expected it all along and I feel sorry for the dispensaries, because they have walked into this trap," she said. "The state has lulled them into a false sense of security."

Kriho warned employees at Boulder dispensaries to consider switching careers, as the state likely will not back them if the feds raid the businesses.

"The feds don't care and the state doesn't care," she said. "The state is not going to testify in their favor.

http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news/ci_19728612

The redacted letter dated 1-12-12 from US Attorney John Walsh would indicate Mr. Walsh was not privy to Mr.Holder's position statement of the previous month.

Good Luck my Colorado brutha's. For now I'm just going to medicate and relax a bit....:bong2:
http://www.gamebrew.com/game/whack-mole/play

 

[chazbolin]

Hey it's been a month. I'm sure he meant it at the time he said it. Can't a dude just change his mind?

I'd be more concerned if they want to tag patients in these databases. Of course the AG say's that the patients are of no interest. whew....that's nice to know. I also don't think they could give two shits about an electric meter that suggests a dozen HID's running in the bedroom either. They got way more important things to be doing.



:headbang:headbang:headbang

 

[calbunn]

Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

Oh well back to electric meters videos. Check this out to see what my grandpa had to say about his new digi meter being installed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JNFr_j6kdI

think off grid and cut those loads folks

 

[calbunn]

In addition to the Smart or Time of Use meters on your home or business the utility companies across the globe are monitoring and controlling power in the name of green house gas reduction.

In this video @ 2:40 seconds you can see how the transformers on your street are being used to detect unmetered or loads that are on the transformer but the utility is not billing that load in total KWhrs. Then @ 3:30 you can see how this is employed at a street by street level of 'monitoring'.



To those who have 'tapped' meter line side power and gotten away with it the enforcement tools have gotten more sophisticated and you will likely be caught. To those with high wattage regular interval loads we can only judge for yourself what this acquisition of data may portend.

 

[kolah]

it won't be long before going offgrid will be illegal and/or heavily regulated (permits, licenses, tax, etc)

 

[calbunn]

it won't be long before going offgrid will be illegal and/or heavily regulated (permits, licenses, tax, etc)

Unfortunately that day has arrived. The nations utilities are already seeing that the incoming revenues have fallen from these energy saving initiatives so they are now going to the PUC and asking for a monthly surcharge for those solar power customers connected to the grid that will offset some of those lost revenues.

It's bad enough that the solar customer only get the lowest kw/hr credit for the power they contribute back to the grid but now they are even getting further screwed. As this article illustrates, this decision will have 'national implications'. Since the PUC is a lapdog for the utilities there is little doubt that a surcharge, of some amount, will be added to the solar customer who remains connected to the grid.



Needless to say the solar power industry is lobbying hard to get this defeated but at the end of the day, with rates rising, the utility will get their surcharge and the renewable energy associations will go back to a marketing campaign that still touts the overall 'savings' and 'going green' elements of the investment.

IMO before going solar, lower those lighting and AC loads wherever you can. As and example an induction grow light uses 60% less watts then it's comparable HID and the thermal contribution of a 400 watt induction is 2.5x less @ 1watt=3.41 BTU/hr only 1,432 BTU/hr compared to a 1000 HID @ 3,410 BTU/hr means less AC systems to operate. Most grow rooms I see oversize the AC tonnage by 1.5 to 2x the design load to allow for increased cooling capacity. But I post as design calculation comparisons to make my point on load reduction in general.

After lowering your loads then an investment in solar panels that would feed directly into your grow rooms SUB-panel for daytime operation of your lights makes sense. You wouldn't need batteries since your consuming any power created and you wouldn't be selling power back to the utility at the MAIN-panel. When there is not enough solar energy to run your rooms subpanel only then do you use utility power to make up the difference. I use microinverters instead of a main inverter since the benefit is you generate power even if some of the solar panels are in shade.

Ulitimately your not on the utility radar as the metered utility loads will vary based on the amount of available sun and there is no danger of backfeeding the grid since the solar systems inverter immediately opens the circuit if utility power is interrupted.

Here is a link and basic wiring diagram as to how that 'utility interactive' solar works to lower metered costs;

 

[chazbolin]

I don't know how much of this is going on in the good old USA but in Abbortsford, BC this guy was 'caught' growing cucumbers in his basement and was fined $5,200.00 for 'fees and improvements'.

Authorities are tipped to potential grow operations by electrical use of over 93kw per day usage.

Grow-op bylaw programs, which are based on provincial legislation, allow municipal inspectors to enter homes with abnormally high hydro usage - about 93 kilowatts per day or more - and look for evidence of illegal marijuana grow-ops for public safety reasons. Inspectors don't have to find grow-ops, but if they find supposed residual evidence, such as high mould readings, they levy search fees and order repairs. If homeowners don't comply, homes are tagged under the bylaw and effectively condemned as unsafe, and unsellable.

According to proponents, the bylaws have been phenomenally successful in driving pot production out of the Lower Mainland.

http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/Mission+homeowner+fined+growing+cucumbers/4086299/story.html

Cash Grab and they still can't balance their budgets:mad0229:

 

[calbunn]

Smart Metering is a peak into our lives but so is thermal imaging to detect high temps which the authorities often to their dismay find are due to iguana or in this very recent case two guinea pigs needing a bit of extra heat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bradford-west-yorkshire-12169711

Here's one where the popo pick up a higher then normal thermal scan at the Nigerian Diplomat's residence so they decide to raid it looking for evil weed. Nothing was found so an apology was forthcoming.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10441260

I wonder what's it cost to put a helicopter in the air per hour?

 

[chazbolin]

I don't know about helicopter costs but the new policy as of Jan 1 in San Jose CA the PD won't respond to burglar alarms anymore since the alarms 'are false 98% of the time'.

 

[calbunn]

98% of the time huh? Well if I were going to make a case for not responding to burglar alarms I'd want a statistic like that. If I were a burglar I'd reckon my chances of being caught just went down with that new policy.

In 2010 the average 1500-2000 sq ft residence drew 50kw per day. With more appliances having energy star ratings and lower loads from the use of compact fluorescent, LED, controls such as motion sensors that shutoff the lights when you leave the room, and customers installing renewable energy systems such as solar the trend from the utility standpoint is average daily consumption levels will continue to drop and not remain static. Lowered consumption will also be consumer driven by the higher cost per kw/hr. To anyone interested in monitoring consumption levels, lowered average daily consumption trends will just make the higher consumption client that much more obvious.

The article on the cucumber grower getting busted cited a 93kw per day usage. It's not only the above average use that creates interest it's the consistent daily cycle pattern of that usage. The new smart meter is designed to provide that information where the old analog spin type meters couldn't detect consumption patterns just monthly usage.

 

[chazbolin]

I don't know why everyone was so excited by the passage of Prop 203 in Arizona.



Passage of this law prohibits you from growing your own if you reside within a 25 mile radius (bullet point 12) of any licensed dispensary. So if this is enforced for all the revenue generating reasons the state has in mind then a licensed dispensary opening up would mean a peak into Time of Use meters to see unusual consumption patterns within the 25 mile radius.

In addition to shutting down the competition asset seizures are shared by the the agencies enforcing the 25 mile radius ban for the personal grower.

 

[Cort]

The cops are doing a similar thing in a town near me in regards to alarms. Instead of not responding, they are charging a fee for multiple false signals. I agree totally. If you cant work with your alarm service to get your system running correctly, IMHO, you should be charged. Call it a stupidity tax.

If I recall correctly, with the old style meter using the utility "grid" as a storage device was possible because your meter spun backwards when you created more than you used, and forwards when you used more than you generated. Not so with the new digital systems. A poster said the system does not do peek/off peek hours automatically, but the system sure is smart enough to buy your excess power for pennies and charge you full price when you use power from the grid.

Service providers vary in how they screw you, but they always find a way.

 

[calbunn]

Arizona is a unique problem for the Fed. AZ has a case pending before the Supreme Court wherein the Fed sued the State of AZ over their passage of SB1070 and Arizona's intent to enforce immigration law under that state law. In the suit the Justice Dept was quick to point out what they believe violates federal responsibility to enact and enforce immigration law. Other states have passed similar legislation since the passage of SB1070 and the Dept of Justice has been quick to respond in kind.

On the other hand when AZ requested the Federal court provide guidance on the states ability to regulate and license MMJ dispensaries as approved under prop 203, Arizona Medical Marijuana Act-AMMA- in it's obvious conflict with the federal Controlled Substance Act neither the Federal court or the AZ State Atty General was able to provide ANY clarity on the issues.

On July 1, 2011 a lawsuit was filed on behalf of Compassion First vs State of AZ which seeks to clarify the States authority under Arizona Dept of Health Services ADHS licensing guidelines to implement this program.

http://www.azdhs.gov/medicalmarijuana/documents/dispensaries/CompassionFirst-v-Arizona.pdf

Para 71, references a filing of the Defendants and the States Atty General seeking the courts proclamation whether the AMMA violates federal law. That lack of determination has not stopped AZDHS from moving forward with taking applications, fees, fingerprints, and licensing for a September 2012 launch.

http://directorsblog.health.azdhs.gov/?p=2132

The 'threatening letter' of May 2, 2011 from the State Atty General sent to the AZDHS would suggest the real concern here was that State employees could be prosecuted under federal law for aiding and abetting a state sanctioned program that would promulgate the violation of the Controlled Substance Act.

http://www.azdhs.gov/medicalmarijuana/documents/resources/USAO_Medical_Marijuana_May_2011_Letter.pdf

The way this finally shakes out should prove interesting on a national level but at the end of the day if this IS allowed to move forward under some kind of adjudicated compromise it really spells increased enforcement activity to eliminate the home grower competitor operating within a 25 mile radius of the dispensary while increasing the penalties up for doing so should you be caught violating that provision.

 

[calbunn]

I hope I'm wrong here and I easily could be but I predict the AZ law will be allowed some form of implementation on a Federal level that will be a deal cut on both the immigration and dispensary issues that will be a compromise that lets both sides save face and gives this administration an element of win/win since it will appeal to immigrants and the MMJ community alike as a working solution.

This solution will create an upswing in support for Obama's re-election since it's a 'jobs creator' and a reversal of previous administrations handling of this contentious Fed/State impasse. All of this at the 11th hour of the elections which will serve to redirect attention from a failed administration while being a blueprint for other states to implement similar programs.

 

[calbunn]

I don't know why everyone was so excited by the passage of Prop 203 in Arizona.



Passage of this law prohibits you from growing your own if you reside within a 25 mile radius (bullet point 12) of any licensed dispensary. So if this is enforced for all the revenue generating reasons the state has in mind then a licensed dispensary opening up would mean a peak into Time of Use meters to see unusual consumption patterns within the 25 mile radius.

In addition to shutting down the competition asset seizures are shared by the the agencies enforcing the 25 mile radius ban for the personal grower.

My reason for tracking the AZ case here is that once implemented the licensing, databasing, and 25 mile radius restriction for personal growers represents enforcement measures that will rely on those databases but also personal grows are easily monitored and reconciled by Time of Use metering.

AZ Gov Jan Brewer has taken opposite positions as to federal over the states authority relative to the AMMA and the immigration lawsuits.

Gov Brewer is a champion of states rights. Except when she's not.

1-5-12 US District Judge Susan Bolton threw out the AMMA case stating the court would not be giving guidance on the AMMA guidelines, that the state was 'sitting on the fence' and would have to take a position if federal law trumped the new AMMA law or not.

At the same time she sued, Governor Brewer halted the dispensary licensing process. The gist of the State’s claim was that state workers implementing the dispensaries could be in jeopardy of federal prosecution, because marijuana is illegal for all purposes under federal law. Governor Brewer tried to stay neutral, asking the federal court to decide whether the AMMA and federal law could co-exist.

In an ironic twist, the AMMA case landed before U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton, the same judge who struck down provisions of S.B. 1070, Arizona’s controversial immigration law, ruling that it was pre-empted by federal law. The S.B. 1070 case is now before the U.S. Supreme Court.

Gov Brewer has until Feb 3 2012 to file an amended lawsuit but Judge Bolton indicated there would not be anything in the amended suit that would create a situation where federal criminal prosecution of state employees who manage the implementation of AMMA licensing would occur so there would be no basis for the court to hear the states case.

http://arizoneout.blogspot.com/2012/01/federal-judge-wont-give-state-guidance.html

I really don't see Gov Brewers position on these two laws as being hypocritical. The January 5th ruling by Judge Bolton seems to set the stage whereby the fed has taken a position that the AZ suit does not rise to the level in which state employees would be prosecuted under federal law for aiding and abetting distribution of a substance found within the Controlled Substance Act. Gov Brewer will further reinforce that position under the amended complaint and the state will have cracked the door to a national federal precedent set for this industry which will include the 25 mile radius restriction of growing your own med.

 

[ImStoned]

Different Words/ Same Meaning

My reason for tracking the AZ case here is that once implemented the licensing, databasing, and 25 mile radius restriction for personal growers represents enforcement measures that will rely on those databases but also personal grows are easily monitored and reconciled by Time of Use metering.

AZ Gov Jan Brewer has taken opposite positions as to federal over the states authority relative to the AMMA and the immigration lawsuits.



1-5-12 US District Judge Susan Bolton threw out the AMMA case stating the court would not be giving guidance on the AMMA guidelines, that the state was 'sitting on the fence' and would have to take a position if federal law trumped the new AMMA law or not.



Gov Brewer has until Feb 3 2012 to file an amended lawsuit but Judge Bolton indicated there would not be anything in the amended suit that would create a situation where federal criminal prosecution of state employees who manage the implementation of AMMA licensing would occur so there would be no basis for the court to hear the states case.

http://arizoneout.blogspot.com/2012/01/federal-judge-wont-give-state-guidance.html

I really don't see Gov Brewers position on these two laws as being hypocritical. The January 5th ruling by Judge Bolton seems to set the stage whereby the fed has taken a position that the AZ suit does not rise to the level in which state employees would be prosecuted under federal law for aiding and abetting distribution of a substance found within the Controlled Substance Act. Gov Brewer will further reinforce that position under the amended complaint and the state will have cracked the door to a national federal precedent set for this industry which will include the 25 mile radius restriction of growing your own med.

It's these words "restrictive" that bother me, sounds the same as Don Duncan's A.S.A.'s "Restrictive Permitting" holding the grapes above your reach, yet close enough to keep you jumping to get it.