The new "Stupid Questions" Thread!

ttystikk · Apr 12, 2013

So your discussion of ionic strength above reminds me of your lament in another thread about millions of bacteria needlessly dying. Apparently, it was for the want of proper ionic balance. Can you help me out here?

soserthc1 · Apr 12, 2013

@cindarella99 - never said miracle grow , i use nothing miracle grow .... cant get fade with anything miracle grow as its time releases nitro for 6 months.... I meant amended spikes with your own organic ingredients its TLO based....

Environmental off topic response question ? if we are both growing the first generation cross of any random beans would they generally be several or few pheno types and would the plants vary much. How much of a difference in selection is needed to create a stable genetic cross? would it make much of a difference between 10 and 100 beans or how much does luck come into play ?

Can someone please explain the idiots version of BX and IBL ..... yeah i know read RCClarks book Marijuana Botany but in simple person terms without a degree in botany.....

Also I understand the F1 F2 etc....thing but why do you not see beans that are sold commonly as F6 - F9 what is the difference in the farther you take the plant

squiggly · Apr 12, 2013

caveman4.20 said:
Is it that in out door there's is that much more pollen that it doesn't matter that most of it is destroyed in morning dew or rains ....

Bingo.

squiggly · Apr 12, 2013

ttystikk said:
So your discussion of ionic strength above reminds me of your lament in another thread about millions of bacteria needlessly dying. Apparently, it was for the want of proper ionic balance. Can you help me out here?

Also bingo.

(A lot of) the bacteria are being 'sploded by the massive intake of water.

squiggly · Apr 12, 2013

soserthc1 said:
Environmental off topic response question ? if we are both growing the first generation cross of any random beans would they generally be several or few pheno types and would the plants vary much. How much of a difference in selection is needed to create a stable genetic cross? would it make much of a difference between 10 and 100 beans or how much does luck come into play ?

Super mega depends on the parents. This is at the heart of genetics. So for instance are the particular genes controlling the expressing heterozygous/homozygous? recessive/dominant? (there's also a 3rd level of complexity in that some genes need 3 or four pairs to match up). Have any mutations occurred? The list goes on and on.

Can someone please explain the idiots version of BX and IBL ..... yeah i know read RCClarks book Marijuana Botany but in simple person terms without a degree in botany.....

A back cross (BX) is basically when you take two "true-breeding" lines with separate traits that you want to mix together. You create progeny and then breed that progeny to one of the original parents. You take that progeny and breed it to one of the original parents, and so on and so forth.

Here are two good pictures:

Inbred lines are a bit more complicated I suggest you read up on these on your own. In a basic conception the idea is that with enough in breeding you end up with a "pure breed" that has almost no genetic variation, or at least "breeds true" (quotations needed in the case of cannabis because we can't confirm true breeding traits--or we haven't at least). This gives you good parental stock from which you then create F1-F# generations.

Here's a great pic. The parental crosses in this picture are the end result of inbred lines. The breeding process undertaken with them creates progeny consisting of recombinant inbred lines.

Also I understand the F1 F2 etc....thing but why do you not see beans that are sold commonly as F6 - F9 what is the difference in the farther you take the plant

Typically you've stabilized the progeny by the time you get to F4-F5 such that it's not really necessary with cannabis, but geneticist DO go out to the large generations in other plants and there is reason to do it with cannabis--it just doesn't make a lot of sense to do it without DNA analysis as a guide. This is the stuff of recombinant inbred lines as seen in the picture above.

Mr Withershed · Apr 12, 2013

caveman4.20 said:
Like your thread...

Haha thanks, I thought it might be helpful foreveryone ;)

soserthc1 · Apr 13, 2013

@sqiuq , excellent answer unfortantly i have to go out , be back with some follow up questions but very helpful , thank you .......peace SoSer

Mr Withershed · Apr 15, 2013

Ight bitches I got another..

So my big fascination has been concentrates, but theres one thing i'm not certain about.. I want to do BHO but I noticed people having some very different looking
results, but the method looked the same. I see people with a dark oil, I see people with this honeycomb looking stuff, ect.. what is determining these.. I dont know consistencies I guess.

squiggly · Apr 15, 2013

Mr Withershed said:
Ight bitches I got another..

So my big fascination has been concentrates, but theres one thing i'm not certain about.. I want to do BHO but I noticed people having some very different looking
results, but the method looked the same. I see people with a dark oil, I see people with this honeycomb looking stuff, ect.. what is determining these.. I dont know consistencies I guess.

1. Starting material (different metabolite concentrations, different terpene content/concentrations, different pigment concentrations)

2. Differences in various quantities when extraction is performed such as:

--Temp
--Pressure
--Contact Time (how long solvent stays in contact with material)
--Solvent/Material ratio
--Acidity/Basicity

3. Differences in various quantities when purge is performed such as:

--Temp
--Pressure
--Completeness of Purge (number/length of purges)

4. Varying levels of oxidation of the start/end material

5. Other types of processing:

--Stirring
--Filtering
--Washing
--"Other"

Mr Withershed · Apr 15, 2013

A very precise answer.. I could only imagine smokin some of squigs shit. Hell I'd be kinda scared lmao. So out of these different types of hash, what should I be shooting for, I would assume (based on my almost nonexistent knowledge of the topic) that the more potent and refined hashs would be very oily and viscous. I dont know why I say that just a hunch.. Like I said very stupid questions these will be.

Mr Withershed · Apr 15, 2013

Maybe this is too broad of a question, but what does the ideal hash look like, or is oil typically better than a waxy substance?

SuperCan · Apr 15, 2013

Mr Withershed said:
A very precise answer.. I could only imagine smokin some of squigs shit. Hell I'd be kinda scared lmao. So out of these different types of hash, what should I be shooting for, I would assume (based on my almost nonexistent knowledge of the topic) that the more potent and refined hashs would be very oily and viscous. I dont know why I say that just a hunch.. Like I said very stupid questions these will be.

I put all these posts together because I posted five in a row without thinking about it.

Actually the opposite The purer its the more solid it is like "shatter" . There are exceptions to that based on post extraction processing methods but typically if you have a more pure oil it will tend more to a solid (if its melting temperature allows for it). The less pure, but the more complete an extract is the oilier it tends to be so when you totally extract everything from the plant you end up with a black oil that will never solidify.

So the best measure is really

1. Melting point
2. Colorimetric analysis
3.Hardness (which has to do with melting point)

In that order

Mr Withershed said:
Maybe this is too broad of a question, but what does the ideal hash look like, or is oil typically better than a waxy substance?

extraction oils are not hash.Hash looks like a black to yellow/brown nearly homogeneous solid The best has I've personally had was dark brown.

For oil its not really possible to say all types of oils have tested in a large range of purity as said before the processing is what changes the look and feel of the product not the purity appearance can play a part if processing is held constant otherwise it is a bad measure.

Also for #2 above you would have to redissolve the extract in order to do that type of analysis it doesn't work when it is in solid form and that is one of the things that makes it so difficult to say whether the color and feel matters that much. Just smoke it and you'll know I guess!!

squiggly · Apr 15, 2013

SuperCan said:
Actually the opposite The purer its the more solid it is like "shatter" . There are exceptions to that based on post extraction processing methods but typically if you have a more pure oil it will tend more to a solid (if its melting temperature allows for it). The less pure, but the more complete an extract is the oilier it tends to be so when you totally extract everything from the plant you end up with a black oil that will never solidify.

I agree with all of this except I'll point out that the consistency of your end product has a great deal to do with what the temperature of the material currently is. This is also why viscosity is a bad choice for analysis. That can vary wildly depending on the room temperature where the material is located.

So the best measure is really

1. Melting point
2. Colorimetric analysis
3.Hardness (which has to do with melting point)

I would actually flip numbers 1 and 2 and get rid of number 3 altogether (hardness is usually a property reserved for metals, it's hard to measure in pseudo solids especially for these purposes. The equipment you'd need to reliably measure these quantities is prohibitively expensive--though a table top meltemp (melting temp testing apparatus) can be had pretty cheaply).

In reality the colorimetric test (spectroscopy) is more expensive than the melting point test, but its MILES more accurate for this type of material because, again, there are 100s of compounds in a cannabis extract and this creates some interesting melting point depression scenarios. Its easy to calculate these types of things in 2 or 3 compound systems--but beyond that it gets pretty hairy. Without further purification melting temp is a bad measure.

That said, spectrometers can be pretty damn expensive so maybe melting point IS the way to go. I might do some experimenting on this myself to see what's up.

extraction oils are not hash.Hash looks like a black to yellow/brown nearly homogeneous solid The best has I've personally had was dark brown.

For oil its not really possible to say all types of oils have tested in a large range of purity as said before the processing is what changes the look and feel of the product not the purity appearance can play a part if processing is held constant otherwise it is a bad measure.

Also for #2 above you would have to redissolve the extract in order to do that type of analysis it doesn't work when it is in solid form and that is one of the things that makes it so difficult to say whether the color and feel matters that much. Just smoke it and you'll know I guess!!

All legit info there. As suggested spectroscopic testing has to be done in solution--it doesn't work on colloids or suspensions (at least it doesn't work well, there are some assays that do this for proteins but they are not ultra sensitive).

Mr Withershed · Apr 17, 2013

Wow, okay then. So of these qualities, are there any ideal temps,solvent-material ratios,ect, that I should know about, or any threads already covering this topic? For instance I have heard when extracting using alcohol, to only stir for 30 seconds, otherwise the chlorophyll starts dissolve into the solution. Im sorry if im asking questions you have already answered a million time, i'm just overwhelmed with the amount of contradicting information and wanted to go directly to the people I find most trustworthy.

soserthc1 · Apr 17, 2013

a potency table would be helpful...... like 1) oil 50-90% 2) kief , hash yellow to brown etc...... obviously alot depends on the quality of the way made i'm sure but an avg would be cool ..... coming from hide in your closet kinda grower to starting to get ahold of oil's and such .... would like a more scientific (keep it under 100 words squiq....lol) explanation on what i'm smoking besides wow this gets me blasted.... peace soser

caveman4.20 · Apr 17, 2013

That's why I like bubble hash of my own

Mr Withershed · Apr 18, 2013

Ah, come on squigg, I love it when you get all scientific on me xD

squiggly · Apr 18, 2013

Mr Withershed said:
Ah, come on squigg, I love it when you get all scientific on me xD

Ethanol is a more aggressive solvent than butane for several reasons:

1. It has polar character and so it can pull out water solubles (which dissolve in polar solvents, like water)

2. It stays liquid the entire time, unlike butane shooting through a tube which rapidly interconverts from liquid to gas based on pressure differential.

3. It is warmer (unless you cool it, which you should) and this also speeds dissolution of actives and of unwanted water solubles.

This is why they are called two different things, BHO and QWISO, because the two extractions are inherently different.

Yes I have answered these before, but that doesn't bother me so don't apologize--there's no need for it. However, I do suggest you check out the Oil forum if this kind of stuff interests you as all of it is discussed in detail there.

Medusa · Apr 18, 2013

soserthc1 said:
Questions does anyone make spikes in there container with organic material (providing there organic ) was ready the TLO book today and thinking about testing it out ..... maybe start with worm castings , bone meal , and perlite with a little compost ? and for those who don't know what spikes are (like me till a day ago) ...its self made hole in the corner of the container after transplanting away from the roots , so when the roots hit it they get a extra spike .....

if you do this can you explain 1) your way 2) benefits you have seen 3) dislikes if tried and stopped ??? peace SoSER

I have done this all around the top of the container so as to get my fertilizer into the soil better and aeration ( like a Lawn) i do believe it worked faster and I had healther plants.. Meaning just holes no miracle grow

Mr Withershed · Apr 19, 2013

Oh I've got another, I thought of just now looking at the ads on here, similar to the potency question about oil, Ive have seen these wildly frosty white plants, and my first thought is, "Man! That looks like some good shit!" But are these frosty looking plants really more potent? And what exactly am I looking at? Am I looking at shit loads of Trichs or just some kinda hairs, lmao Ive never had the opportunity to grow or be around any live plants, so dont laugh to hard..I know thats a really stupid one, brings me back to the days of smokin outa Dr. Thunder cans.

The new "Stupid Questions" Thread!

The new "Stupid Questions" Thread!

ttystikk

soserthc1

squiggly

squiggly

squiggly

Mr Withershed

soserthc1

Mr Withershed

squiggly

Mr Withershed

Mr Withershed

SuperCan

squiggly

Mr Withershed

soserthc1

caveman4.20

Mr Withershed

squiggly

Medusa

Trichome Engineer

Mr Withershed

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