The truth about dimmable ballasts....

[TylerDurden119]

i have been seeing sooo much misinformation about digital ballasts i wanted to post this for everyone to see.

1. a 1k ballast set at 400 watts will only use 400 watts(regardless of bulb size)

2. a 1k bulb will work on the 400 and 600 watt setting. you do not have to buy the corresponding bulb.

3. the light spectrum does not change as the wattage is dialed down. a 1k bulb set at 400 watts has the same spectrum as @ 1k.(n if it does it is so negligible its not even a worry). this one is harder to explain but the best i can say is imagine holding a colored ballon over a flash light at full power. you would have a red aura projecting a certain distance. but if you only had half the power in the flashlight it would only project taht red aura half as far. thats the best i can do and i think tahts pretty good.

if you would like to test for yourself. go buy an ammeter and hook it around the live wire running to your subpanel and dial up and down the wattages and see how the reading changes. and since electricity is math and math doesn't lie. the formula for watts in AC power format is complex but the basic premise of watts being on one side of the equation and amps being on the other dictates that it one changes the other must as well. kinda like if you have 1+1=2 you couldn't have 1+1=3

i hope this clears up a lot of confusion about these new ballasts. we all came here to learn. lets learn the truth!

 

[dorjewright]

Well that would be good news; but what is your source?

 

[TylerDurden119]

me, my ammeter and my digital 1k solis teks with 1k bulbs.

so maybe i should throw a disclaimer up saying its true with solis teks....dunno about other brands but i see no reason they wouldn't be the same...

 

[tedsprogz]

almost

You're on the right track, but Ohm's Law says nothing about watts.
Ohm's Law states the relationship between Resistance, Current, and Voltage.
Current=Voltage/Resistance.
Watts=Current*Voltage.
While being derived from Ohm's Law, Ohm's Law states nothing about watts.
And the Big Kicker.......OHM'S LAW ONLY APPLIES FOR DC VOLTAGE!!!!!! Ohm's Law goes out the window with AC electricity.
You have frequency, wavelenth, impedance, inductive reactance,etc. All of those things come into play when you are messing with AC voltage. It's not as simple as DC current.Way more variables that change when current goes down or up.

While I agree your color will not change from dimming the ballast, I'm quite sure It's due to the gas the bulb burns rather than the ballast.

 

[TylerDurden119]

You're on the right track, but Ohm's Law says nothing about watts.

my bad.


sprogz is right. my memory has failed. AC has much more complex formulas. my memory has been jogged, well that n i went to google the formula lol......but the basic principle of the theory remains the same, as watts increase so will the amps. so im still right in saying the ballasts are using the correct amount of power for each setting. how we got there changed but the end result is still the same....

 

[xsvthoughts]

VxA=W

usually.

 

[dankworth]

Electricity would have to be expressed as heat or light. When lumateks are dimmed, the lamps produce less light.
And the ballasts produce less heat.
I proved it with my hand(it was calibrated)
So there must be less electricity flowing to a dimmed lumatek ballast.

 

[pork]

this just answered a long standing (never tested) question of mine...thanks for that!

 

[fishwhistle]

Tyler,im just not sure what the intended use of the dimmables are,im going to email solis and see if they will elaborate more.while im sure you can turn down a 1000w bulb like you have i see nothing on their site saying to do it that way,quite the contrary as it seems to me they are saying use the appropriate bulb for the setting,here is a little blurb from their site;

-4 step dimming: SolisBoost - 1000W - 600W - 400W.
-Metal Halide (MH) & High Pressure Sodium (HPS) Lamps
-2 power cords included
-Soft Start Technology
-Powers 1000w, 600w, 400w lamps.
-Constant Power Factor 99.9%
- 8.92 AMPS @ 120v / 4.46 AMPS @ 240v

Do you see anything on their that says just turn down your 1k to 400/600?Im definitely not saying your wrong im actually still confused myself!The way i read it it says you can power any one of the three bulbs on the appropriate setting.Maybe its a legal thing,we know that you can do it with a 1k as youve already proven that but imagine if somebody took a 400 or 600 and tryed to boost it(or just flat fucked up,stoners do that,lol)by using on the higher settings?KABLAMMM!Like i said im still not convinced either way but i sure dont see anything stating just turn down your 1000 to whatever but i DO see the statement powers 400/600/1000w lamps.BTW thanks for taking the time to test current draw with an ammeter as that answered another of my questions,Does the ballast still pull 1000 even if its turned down to 600.I gotta get me one of those bitchin meters that just clamps around the line and tells you the power draw!

 

[tedsprogz]

The dimmable ballasts are just so you dont have to go out and buy a 600W ballast if you want to swap your 1000W for a 600W. Thats it. If you put a 600W bulb in a 1000W dimmable ballast and leave it on 600 you will be fine...turn it up.....not so fine.....basically buy a 1000W dimmable ballast and buy a 1000W bulb and you can turn it down no problems.And yes, if you turn it down, you will draw less current, in turn saving you $$$.

 

[TylerDurden119]

Tyler,im just not sure what the intended use of the dimmables are,im going to email solis and see if they will elaborate more.while im sure you can turn down a 1000w bulb like you have i see nothing on their site saying to do it that way,quite the contrary as it seems to me they are saying use the appropriate bulb for the setting,here is a little blurb from their site;

-4 step dimming: SolisBoost - 1000W - 600W - 400W.
-Metal Halide (MH) & High Pressure Sodium (HPS) Lamps
-2 power cords included
-Soft Start Technology
-Powers 1000w, 600w, 400w lamps.
-Constant Power Factor 99.9%
- 8.92 AMPS @ 120v / 4.46 AMPS @ 240v

Do you see anything on their that says just turn down your 1k to 400/600?Im definitely not saying your wrong im actually still confused myself!The way i read it it says you can power any one of the three bulbs on the appropriate setting.Maybe its a legal thing,we know that you can do it with a 1k as youve already proven that but imagine if somebody took a 400 or 600 and tryed to boost it(or just flat fucked up,stoners do that,lol)by using on the higher settings?KABLAMMM!Like i said im still not convinced either way but i sure dont see anything stating just turn down your 1000 to whatever but i DO see the statement powers 400/600/1000w lamps.BTW thanks for taking the time to test current draw with an ammeter as that answered another of my questions,Does the ballast still pull 1000 even if its turned down to 600.I gotta get me one of those bitchin meters that just clamps around the line and tells you the power draw!

ehhh mon, definitely no one should use a 400 or 600 bulb in the 1k ballast without it being set at the correct power output. i could see a huge potential for fire or injury. the way im seeing the bulb work is kinda like a capacity. a 1k bulb is rated for a 1000 watts so it should be able to handle any power up to a 1000 watts.to draw a comparison, i'd go back to the flashlight. its bulb is rated to run at a certain power but as the batteries wear the pwoer is reduced. the light still works just not as bright(powerful).

definietly contact solis as this would be the end all of the discussion. i'd hate to be putting out bad information when the whole point of this thread is to dispell the myths around dimmables.

yea the ammeter comes in handy. had to go right to the sub panel to get access to the live wire which was a bitch but i had to know a 100% for myself that when its dimmed, its pulling the appropriate power.

 

[OctoberDee]

I hate to chime in and say something obvious but was there a question as to the same spectrum not being available when you dim your light? As stated, you buy a 1000w dimmable ballast and turn the power down to 750w or 500w, whatever, how would one assume the spectrum would change? You are merely taking the power down with a switch. You aren't changing out the bulb, there's no need that's why they are called dimmable. If you had to change the bulb when you dialed down it would then defeat the purpose of using the dim dial. It seems math and power conversions would have little to do with this, it just seems like common sense. Tyler you are correct and if anyone challenges that they can waste their time figuring out what's going on but the deal is it's still a HPS or MH (with the same spectrum) and still will only use whatever power you are dialed at. I don't really get this thread per say because I didn't really think there was a question. Bigger engine more gas, smaller engine less gas, just the way it goes.

 

[dankworth]

The arc tube, as it warms up, causes compounds to heat and eventually emit radiation in the visible spectrum.
We see the range of colors emitted change as the lamp warms up.
The spectral output of the lamp changes as the compounds heat.
So less electricity causes a difference in the excitement of the compounds
Thereby affecting the spectral output.
The difference in color values may be small to some
But are more apparent with more experimentation with different lamps and reflectors at different settings.
I for example prefer the spectral output of my digilux 1k hps using 1130 watts from a digital ballast.
More colors other than the reds than when I use the lamp at 1000 watts on the same digi ballasts.
But I do rely heavily on what my plants tell me about inputs.
They do like a certain ratio of blue.
So they like color-corrected hps at full wattage better because of the extra blue primarily I think.
Like they like a horti with extra blue better than a streetlight with all orange and yellows
And they like an hps/mh mix because of the extra blue.
I believe these things are all interrelated.

 

[dorjewright]

What I've heard is the spectrum changes when a bulb is dimmed; which is why a bulb of the appropriate watts is recommended rather than just dimming. I don't have any information other than hearsay from 2 or 3 local hydro stores.

 

[convex]

My thinking is ...

These bulbs are DESIGNED to strike AND run at anticipated voltages, anything less (or more) and variances occur in many ways, including and most importantly, may fail; potentially in a catastrophic manner.

Edit: Forgot to mention warranty as an issue too.

 

[Venom818]

me, my ammeter and my digital 1k solis teks with 1k bulbs.

so maybe i should throw a disclaimer up saying its true with solis teks....dunno about other brands but i see no reason they wouldn't be the same...

I've dialed down my quantum to 500 and 750 with no problems even quantum says its ok

 

[tedsprogz]

You can dim a ballast without changing the spectrum.
The wavelength of the light comes from the high pressure sodium gas.
The voltage won't go down when you dim the ballast.
It stays at 110 or 220.
As far as the direction of the thread, all questions are answered.

 

[TylerDurden119]

The arc tube, as it warms up, causes compounds to heat and eventually emit radiation in the visible spectrum.
We see the range of colors emitted change as the lamp warms up.
The spectral output of the lamp changes as the compounds heat.
So less electricity causes a difference in the excitement of the compounds
Thereby affecting the spectral output.
The difference in color values may be small to some
But are more apparent with more experimentation with different lamps and reflectors at different settings.
I for example prefer the spectral output of my digilux 1k hps using 1130 watts from a digital ballast.
More colors other than the reds than when I use the lamp at 1000 watts on the same digi ballasts.
But I do rely heavily on what my plants tell me about inputs.
They do like a certain ratio of blue.
So they like color-corrected hps at full wattage better because of the extra blue primarily I think.
Like they like a horti with extra blue better than a streetlight with all orange and yellows
And they like an hps/mh mix because of the extra blue.
I believe these things are all interrelated.

What I've heard is the spectrum changes when a bulb is dimmed; which is why a bulb of the appropriate watts is recommended rather than just dimming. I don't have any information other than hearsay from 2 or 3 local hydro stores.

i still think the flashlight metaphor about a red ballon over the flashlight is bang on. once the bulb reaches its operating temp the gases are fully charged, i don't think it comes down to how much power is being pumped thru the bulb but rather as long as its enough power to fully heat the gases to the correct temperature.

My thinking is ...

These bulbs are DESIGNED to strike AND run at anticipated voltages, anything less (or more) and variances occur in many ways, including and most importantly, may fail; potentially in a catastrophic manner.

Edit: Forgot to mention warranty as an issue too.

i will be running 2 1k solis teks dimmed to 600. i will post up if i have any issues. so far for 2 weeks i haven't had any.

I've dialed down my quantum to 500 and 750 with no problems even quantum says its ok

siiik venom, thanks for chimin in with some real world experience on another manufacturer :yes

 

[tedsprogz]

dankworth, once the HPS heats up, the color shouldn't flutuate.
Think about it, if dimming a ballast would change the color due to the HPS being less excited, then running a cooltube would do the same thing.

 

[1971]

almost

You're on the right track, but Ohm's Law says nothing about watts.
Ohm's Law states the relationship between Resistance, Current, and Voltage.
Current=Voltage/Resistance.
Watts=Current*Voltage.
While being derived from Ohm's Law, Ohm's Law states nothing about watts.
And the Big Kicker.......OHM'S LAW ONLY APPLIES FOR DC VOLTAGE!!!!!! Ohm's Law goes out the window with AC electricity.
You have frequency, wavelenth, impedance, inductive reactance,etc. All of those things come into play when you are messing with AC voltage. It's not as simple as DC current.Way more variables that change when current goes down or up.

While I agree your color will not change from dimming the ballast, I'm quite sure It's due to the gas the bulb burns rather than the ballast.

um, ohm's law covers both ac and dc. not sure where you came up with that