The Whole Earth in a Container- Organic Soil and Nutrient Strategies

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GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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GGs Soil Mix Stage I

There are two fundamental approaches that growers, in search of an organic soil mix, can take. The direct and time-saving route is to copy or emulate the recipe and procedures of an experienced grower whose work you know and trust. Once you've had a couple grows w/ the new mix and gain confidence, there's plenty of time to embellish and add your signature if you wish. I have a seasoned grower to draw on and would've gone that route if, only, I was wired that way.

The second, more energy and time consuming route, the one that I took, is to drill down your custom base mix by experimenting w/ different systems, materials, and nute ratios until you stabilize and land on the mix or mixes that you're going to roll with which, if you are like me, frees you up to experiment w/ something else that is deemed to need experimenting on. As fate would have it, the soil mix that I discovered, is essentially the same mix my seasoned growing confidant had laid out for me two years earlier.

I use 2 different recipes- one for veg cycle and one for flowering. I use the veg recipe for seedlings, but at a lower nute concentration. Because a seed provides all of the nutrition that a plant will need for the first days of it's life, I create a thumb sized hole in the 3" container I plant them in and after dusting in endomycos I fill it w/ a 3-1 coir : seedling mix before planting and watering in. The roots need travel only 1/2" to contact endos and the custom soil mix that was prepared especially for them.

Coir- midrange textures- large chunks and powder are not your friends. Sea salt can be an issue. If so, I flush until I get an ec reading in the 100-200 range, (not true ec- ec reading as volumetric tool.) 100-200 is an arbitrary range- lower could be more optimum, or 100 could be overkill. If someone has a better handle on sodium chloride/sea salt and it's effects on plant growth than I, please speak up. In either case, I can tell you that the 100-200 ec range works. Ideally, you will have a trustworthy, consistent source and flushing will be a moot point.

Rice Hulls- As far as perlite is concerned, I'm a bigot. Used to love the stuff- built a system around it. Today, I have a strong distaste for perlite chunks and because I add soil from my high performing containers as I've made each new mix, I never can seem to get rid of the stuff.

I'm not going to lay the virtues of rice hulls on you, other than to say that they are environmentally friendly, sustainable, don't require a learning curve to use, don't pose the potential security probs that perlite (and pumice to a lesser extent) poses, they are less expensive than perlite and they make your soil a lot prettier to look at. A 1:1 rice hull (rh) : water flush may not be necessary, but that's my procedure.

Soaks/Cooking-
After the rh has been drained and the water has been squeezed out of the coir to give it a nice, spongy dry consistency, I process them. I'll fill you in on the quantities, %'s and ratios in a follow up post, but for now, I'll stick to the procedures and ingredients I use and my rationale for using them.

Note: although coir has a trace amt of nutritional value, I don't count it in w/ my formulas.

Coir- 24 hour soak in solution using the same water soluble minerals that I use in my soil and foliar feeds. Because I already have H2O soluble minerals in my arsenal, why not let them infuse and spread out evenly throughout my base soil components while I'm moistening them up? I'll add the dry nutrients and addies that aren't water soluble to my mix later.
-- H2O soluble silica and 50+ trace elements (Nutri-Min)- re: Silica is the most abundant element in the Earth's soil and coir is essentially devoid of it. Same applies to trace minerals. I'll break it down later, but the mined mineral that I use comes from a colloidial clay deposit which, in addition to a high quality humus source, provides excellent TEC, (total exchange capacity), which virtually frees me of any concerns of a poor cation-anion exchange substrate in my container. We'll probably talk some more about TEC downstream.
-- Sulfate of Potash, (Potassium Sulfate) *extra fines* re: 100% soluble K and sulfur source.

Rice Hulls-
-- strain a 2x solution of FPE- a DIY 'fermented plant extract' or "plant juice', save the drain off- it is usable.
re: Filters out latent solids from FPE and embeds catalysts, amino acids, and other good things into the rh. Ancient Organics and EJ are two of the more familiar labels that carry fermented nutes and I suggest using them instead of DIY ferments which are a tricky to brew and, therefore, risky. I place DIY ferments in the experimental category.
-- ACTs - their benefits have been well documented.
-- Cold Pressed Liquid Kelp- optional
re: cold pressed to get the full pallet of available active agents, hormonal stimulants and optional because, depending upon your ACT, it may be redundant and unnecessary.

Processed in a black 5 gal bucket/s- loosely covered (I use burlap), put on a heating pad and/or under a light in the grow room, give it an occasional turn for heat distribution (not critical), and let the mixture 'cook' for 24 hours.

That's Stage I. You can run w/ it from there or just jump past it. I'm good either way. I'm about to get busy.

On my "things I haven't seen propped for awhile" list:
Most of the folks I know that are into organic growing are already subscribers. But for those who aren't and are a serious about cutting edge organics, you should not be w/o an Acres Magazine subscription.
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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Don't know where the hell I was going w/ that. Thought I'd come down from the clouds for, at least, a moment.

Now that they have a US distributor, it isn't difficult to get locally and I don't have to pay for shipping, I'm going w/ Gold Label coir. Their coco is run through a high tech facility, Ph'd to 6.0, and buffered- I believe the chances of getting a bad batch, (which inspired me to give bales a try), is practically nil.

Riceland produces rice hulls for horticulture but I still need to have them shipped in by a regional retailer.

http://www.riceland.com/coproducts/pbh.asp
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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here's some pics that i took last night to give you a look at the grow culture i'm talking about. Agent Goo S-1s kept small by design - in 3''ers an extra 10 -14 das because I'm still rebuilding my rooms and am s-l-o-w-ly (more so than expected) reclaiming lighting space. would normally have been bumped the AGoos' to 1 gals by now. will take/post pics of D-13's that were started a week earlier and bumped -> 1 gal @ 12 days- a world of difference. The clones (red cups) are in a coir/redi mix combo- my friend gave me a bag of botanicare redi-mix and i ain't proud, perlite or no perlite. hehe ;) The cuts are from a sticky-oily Congolese "black hash" strain- not sure on genetic specifics, ATM. will know 4 sure before flower.

AgentGoo worm


AgentGoo 2


Congo black


AgentGoo 3


Agoo cu

 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45HPaTF0u7U[/YOUTUBE]
 
crom

crom

Cannobi Genetics
Supporter
2,234
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Excellent progress this thread has made! I take a break from my posting a bit during outdoor harvest. Sorry to drop off like that GG. I'm stoked to get a new medium and work with it. I wish I had more time!! Not enough hours in the day I tell ya! Gotta catch up over here asap! Thanks for the love GG, & for bumping this thread for me! Back to some Aliendawg...anyone wanna hit this? :passingjoint:

Cheers,
Crom
 
D

desertmedgrower

79
8
Hey guys! Great thread and thanks for all of those who are involved with it so far.. Hopefully there is more to come...

Quick Question on Humic Acid to all you experienced gardeners...

I have been using Ful-Power alongside the GO humic product (black gold? can't remember it's name), to give it both the fulvic acid and the humic derived from leonardite....

Is this strategy going to help me in the long run? Am I overdoing it? Is there a big difference in the humic / fulvic acids that I am using?

I know my hydro store touted ful-power as the best humic acid supplement, but I wanted more of an opinion on this. Thanks!
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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Last Night

hey crom- TCB and harvest away buddy. I don't run outdoors anymore but remember crunch time very well. Seems most of my friends are in that mode, too.
Somewhere/time in the past I remember this time of year being referred to as the beginning of 'smokers hack season'. I'm just growin', rockin', rollin', jokin' and tokin' (to the Brian Jamestown Massacre ^^, ATM.)

desertmedgrower- humic/fulvic acid concentrates are not a strong suit. know about them but have never used them. Hopefully someone else that has used them and has a better handle on humates than I do will drop by and fill you in. I get humic/fulvic acid into the container from humus tea, dips/poultices, which interestingly enough, was part of what I was doing last night.
D-13 S-1 1 gals 8/cart @ 36/7 das
(cart in photo has a couple non D-13s mixed in, but who really gaf?) har-har
D 13 cart1


Our Subject
D 13 36da


Transplant Dip ("Poultice")

Arctic Humus- hormonal stimulants, humates, (fulvic acid), EMs, CEC (TEC)
Worm Castings- EMs, N, vermi
Crab Shell Meal- chitins, extended (slow) N-P-K
CP Kelp- hormones, enzymes
Vitazyme- enzymes, stimulator, B vites, specialized Ca molecule (don't ask...yet)
Yucca Extract- spreader
Endomycorrhizae, (micronized)- even coverage when applied in H2O solution.
Fermented Plant Juice (FPJ)- 1:500 Catalyst, N, additional EM suite/diversity
Fish Amino Acids (FAA)- 1:1000 superior N source, (direct organic molecular uptake of AA's, enzymes
Molasses- microcrew food, moderate carbo-loading, nutritional- K, micronutes.


  • poultice- 2:1 mass:H2O
  • dip- 1:3 mass:H2O
  • bubble 12-24 hrs
  • add endos a few minutes before application.
  • heavy agitation w/ wire whip immediately before dipping root mass

Always wear gloves!
Transplant dip


D-13 before dip. This is 5 weeks + a day or two. I had enough root mass to transplant 1gal->3 gal @4wks and I prolly would've if my rooms were up and running at normal pace.
D 13 trnsplt 1


D-13 after dip w/o agitation because i was taking pic.
I re-dipped after shot- it looks like dark chocolate cocoa when right.
D 13 trnsplt 2


The Homer bucket in the background is a neem/yucca extract solution that I agitate and dip the plant in (above grade) before transplant. 1gal -> 3gal is the last opportunity I have to work directly w/ the plant in this fashion.

I dilute remaining dip 1:4 H2O and use to water in plant.
 
M

mrbong73

580
28
Hey guys! Great thread and thanks for all of those who are involved with it so far.. Hopefully there is more to come...

Quick Question on Humic Acid to all you experienced gardeners...

I have been using Ful-Power alongside the GO humic product (black gold? can't remember it's name), to give it both the fulvic acid and the humic derived from leonardite....

Is this strategy going to help me in the long run? Am I overdoing it? Is there a big difference in the humic / fulvic acids that I am using?

I know my hydro store touted ful-power as the best humic acid supplement, but I wanted more of an opinion on this. Thanks!

Here is a good starting point in understanding humic substances. BioAg's Fulpower is a top shelf product (imo) and is very effective as a chelator. It is best used in foliar applications although it could be used in a nutrient solution as well. I would stick at or below recommended dosage.
Hope that helps.
 
D

desertmedgrower

79
8
Here is a good starting point in understanding humic substances. BioAg's Fulpower is a top shelf product (imo) and is very effective as a chelator. It is best used in foliar applications although it could be used in a nutrient solution as well. I would stick at or below recommended dosage.
Hope that helps.

Thanks guys! Once again you guys are top notch
 
phenotyper

phenotyper

851
63
I am going to toss out that FulPower is amazing stuff. I use anywhere from 3-5ml/Liter for foliar, and 15ml/gallon soil drench. Use it all the time and the results speak for themselves. Combine with Nitrozime, and you have one of the best preflowering foliar's that I can think of because it drastically increases the number of bud sites.
 
D

desertmedgrower

79
8
So I guess the next question is... how far into you feeding regimen would you continue to apply the fulpower? I doublepotted my most recent grow and have been thinking the fulpower wouldn't hurt the continued and new rooting going on during the first few weeks of flower... Any thoughts?

I have one plant that is currently grown to 36" x 36" canopy on it's own with what looks like 200 bud sites... so yah I know what you are talking about the multiple bud sites thing haha
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

848
63
me gotta get me sum a dat fullpower, yah dudes. :rock plezent evening 2 u.
:bong-hits:

setious about the full power, btw. really will look into.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
When the Agriculture industry is stuck in its same old ways, it will be up to the marijuana growers to figure out better ways, that may one day be used to feed the world, in a much better way than today.

In the spirit of contributing to the thread of 'microcosm in the pot', may I suggest that we think outside the pot for a moment, and consider the rest of the indoor garden? I'm a huge fan of a lot of what people are doing in this industry to innovate, and I believe (I'm an optimist, I HAVE to belive, or the alternative is too damned depressing!) that some of our best practices will find their way to larger scale food and herb production.

On the subject of the indoor microcosm, I've commented at some length in various threads about my work on light rotators, with the aim of getting a better lighting solution for less wattage invested. This is a very personal quest to try and reduce the power draw of our industry while maintaining or even improving the quality of lighting given to our precious little ladies.

It's a worthy goal to grow organically. It's also a worth goal to look at the entire grow room and examine what impacts ALL of one's gardening practices there have on the larger environment outside. Since there is a direct link between tons of coal burned, CO2 and other more noxious gasses produced and kilowatts of electricity made, I'm thinking it behooves us all to carefully consider- and minimize- our power footprint.

Good work going on here. I'm taking notes... I'm all about recycling and building the soil.
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

848
63
A microcosm of the earth's ideal conditions for growing cannabis plants during their approx. 2-5 month lifespan in a container is the specific concept that I'm working with, and the basis of my grow style philosophy, (which is still under development.) If we go to Nature, learn about Her processes and understand how to grow on Her terms, we will not only be rewarded w/ healthy, vigorous and tasty plants, we can help turn the tide against 20th century explosion of synthetic, agrochemical growing that most of us grew up with. Remember, an "organic" microcosm isn't the only alternative. Organisms can survive and grow in the Salton Sea.

Our star, the Sun, is ultimately where our planet's energy comes from and no growing microcosm- container or no container, can live w/o it. Chloroplasts convert the energy from the sun's light waves into CO2, starches, (CHO), and cellulose. No photosynthesis- no whole earth in a container to be discussing.

That being said, there is virtually nothing under the Sun that can't be discussed here. I can digress w/ the best of them- it's in my nature, so, although I will return to the earth microcosm in a pot theme, nothing is off limits. Music (^^!), mini "hi. wazzup?" bullshit sessions, shout outs, rants (presumably directed to something "out there" not here), knock yourself out. Get out there. All that I ask is that we try to respect one another in this room, but I will not be a behavior monitor. I just retired from public service and have my hands full w/ a pile of dirt ATM.
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

848
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Theme Music- 2 Versions

Late60's version of Heavy Metal and a vision of the future:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBfCzhYbWBk[/YOUTUBE]

Another late 60's vision of the future:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUHlxBZMiqw[/YOUTUBE]

So I guess the next question is... how far into you feeding regimen would you continue to apply the fulpower? I doublepotted my most recent grow and have been thinking the fulpower wouldn't hurt the continued and new rooting going on during the first few weeks of flower... Any thoughts?

I have one plant that is currently grown to 36" x 36" canopy on it's own with what looks like 200 bud sites... so yah I know what you are talking about the multiple bud sites thing haha
hey dmg. any pics?? love them pics.

Am gonna pick me up summa that fulpower, btw. me want sum bad.
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

848
63
More good news about a weak spot in the shape of the planet. Got this in an email today. (I don't have an affiliation w/ Patagonia. ;-)

CORiverDelta

The Colorado River Delta (where the Colorado River ends in a series of wetlands at the Gulf of California) is less than 10% of its original size and getting smaller. Without a dedicated flow of water into the Delta, several indigenous communities (Cocopah in the U.S. and the Cucapa in Mexico), 380 bird species, and freshwater marine wildlife are in danger. To protect the Colorado River Delta: tell Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar to help save what Jacques Cousteau once called, “the aquarium of the world.”

Team up with Sonoran Institute to Help Protect the Colorado Delta


It’s not a lost cause. With help from groups like the Sonoran Institute, there’s still a chance to return water to the Colorado River Delta, and make sure the mighty river once again reaches the sea. PETE MCBRIDE
Download free wallpaper
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

848
63
Thanks for the bioag.com link mrbong. Humic acids fall into an area of the microcosm that I need to get some schooling in.

My brother-in-law sent me an email saying "Me love me sum Dexter" which sent me on the "gotta get me sum..." binge that I've been on lately. no disrespect... just an ol hippie doin' a shabby job of tryin' out sumthin new. In all seriousness though, me got me sum Ful-Power comin' Just ordered a qt. off of Amazon and thank you guys for hipping me to it. Will be flipping my first set of plants, (D-13, Bob's Urkle, and 2 freebs- Rocklock, Confidential Cheese) in 10 days so the timing for use as a pre-flower foliar should be just about right.

It is amazing to me that I used to listen to King Crimson and "21st Century Schizoid Man" in my college dorm over 40 years ago. The 21st century seemed so far away. Imaging a group coming out w/ a song about a vision for 2050 today and you can get a sense of what I felt when I dusted off the oldie and heard it for the first time in a good 20 years. Whew!

Back on "topic".

I noticed that mrbong is using Malibu Compost. I had a couple of compost bins at my old property but no longer make my own compost. Malibu Compost is a good solution for people who live in the West (shipping), and don't make their own and is a good addie for those who do.

For good or bad, I can't (or don't allow myself to) get locked into a single way of doing things. Here's an alternate program that I'm using for smaller w/ a batch of 3" -> 1gal. The recipe might coordinate better w/ other programs than the poultice/drench procedure I demonstrated above.

Post-Transplant Drench

40ml Vit B-1
40 ml Nitrozyme
1 TBS Superthrive
40 ml Rhizotonic
40 ml Quantum Growth (or FPJ)
CalMag (added as needed to make 750 ppm solution.

combine all ingredients in 5-gallons R/O water pH-6. Take PPM reading. add CalMag to = 750ppm solution.

Note: Vitamin B-1 and Superthrive do work and enhance the effectiveness of this solution. I know that many consider these addies useless. I used to be one of the critics.

GG
 
D

desertmedgrower

79
8
Note: Vitamin B-1 and Superthrive do work and enhance the effectiveness of this solution. I know that many consider these addies useless. I used to be one of the critics.

GG
Superthrive by all means seems like "snake oil", just from the labeling alone... however I too have noticed differences in a variety of areas. I like to get a couple drops in during transplants
 
D

desertmedgrower

79
8
hey dmg. any pics?? love them pics.

Am gonna pick me up summa that fulpower, btw. me want sum bad.

Yah.. sorry been having some camer issues so it took me a couple days to catch up here.. but here we go:

Unfortunately I have a little trouble getting the whole plant in the screen with my limited area (I'm scrunched against the wall trying to make it work haha)

But I think you can see the pictures that there is quite a few bud sites for just 7 plants and only 15 days into flower.

The picture with my hand in it shows basically what one branch does near the end... sort christmas trees out... theres about 25 branches on that big Bush that all look like that :))))
 
View attachment bush15days.jpg View attachment canopy16days.jpg View attachment singlebranch16days.jpg
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