Thoughts on defoiliation/pruning on day 21 of flower?

[luckytrees]

There is alot of conflicting information out there as far as defoiliation and pruning goes. From never removing anything to going crazy and trimming as much as you need to throughout the grow. Mostly from people's personal experiences it seems to be the most common for a higher yield to trim and prune once at the end of veg and then again 3-4 weeks into flower. But I am curious as to why there is such a stark difference in opinion when it comes to this seemingly major aspect of growing. This is my 4th grow (I might be finally getting the hang of this ) every grow is better than the last and this one is definitely my best so far, so I'm hoping to not mess it up. In my previous grows as well as this one I have followed those general guidelines for the most common method among home growers, it makes the most sense to me and seems to produce good results. But im still getting stuck on how much to remove at this point. Today is day 22 of flower, the pictures are from day 20 and day 21. I'm going to do some defoiliating and pruning but im wondering how much. I thought I had removed enough of the lower buds sites on my last grow, but it turned out to be alot of larf. However, there was also some nutrient issues last grow. There's also the issue of a 12" height difference between the highest and lowest colas, stretch seems to be done or at least slowing down alot so I don't see these lower branches growing much taller, should I just cut them? They're main branches off the stem so it seems like it would be alot of stress, but i really don't know, I've learned alot but I still have a long way to go. So far the most I've gotten from one plant is 1.6oz, I've seen people averaging 3.5oz per plant! Trying to get to that point. Thoughts? Suggestions? I drew some lines and circled some lower buds sites i was thinking of removing as well as circled the colas of the lower branches. It's just so crazy one site or book will say never remove a single leaf! And others will say defol regularly and remove anything that covers a bud site

 

[brendog]

I would take the lower water leaves for airflow and take off 5-10 big fan leaves a week from the top/mid for airflow and light, prune harder if the airflow is restricted, ideally you wouldn't have to take leaves off but once they are trained/topped you have to or they get crowded

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

A common technique used for defoliating would be to remove leaves that are growing inward towards the main stem. Your goal is not to strip the plant. You're trying to improve airflow through the canopy.

There is a lot of different opinions on defoliation. I am in the group of growers that prefer to leave the green on the tree. This is not saying don't defoliate at all ... open it up, but think of it as improving airflow to the interior of the plant. The leaves are the solar panels that make everything happen ... you're much better off going very easy at it and then posting again to see if more defoliation should be done.

Over-do it and your plant will replace the green it needs in your flowers. Nobody wants leafy flowers.

 

[luckytrees]

I would take the lower water leaves for airflow and take off 5-10 big fan leaves a week from the top/mid for airflow and light, prune harder if the airflow is restricted, ideally you wouldn't have to take leaves off but once they are trained/topped you have to or they get crowded

Thanks man, I ended up doing it the next day, getting rid of what looked like would be larf and fan leaves that were covering bud sites. Here were the results, im a little worried that it might have been too much but that was 4 days ago and they still look healthy, just hoping I didn't stunt bud growth.

 

[luckytrees]

Here is before, after, and yesterday

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Thanks man, I ended up doing it the next day, getting rid of what looked like would be larf and fan leaves that were covering bud sites. Here were the results, im a little worried that it might have been too much but that was 4 days ago and they still look healthy, just hoping I didn't stunt bud growth.

Personally? I wouldn't have taken it that far ... I leave more green on the tree. Don't fret it though, it was heavy but probably still in the realms of ok. Just leave the green on the tree going forward through this grow ...

 

[luckytrees]

Personally? I wouldn't have taken it that far ... I leave more green on the tree. Don't fret it though, it was heavy but probably still in the realms of ok. Just leave the green on the tree going forward through this grow ...

Ok, sounds good. I was thinking that it was probably too much. Last time I didn't take off enough

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Ok, sounds good. I was thinking that it was probably too much. Last time I didn't take off enough

It's the leaves that creates the energy that makes the plant grow. It's less about removing leaves to allow light in because you want to leave as much as you can on the plant ... within reasons of course. It's why I say you're trying to improve airflow through the plant. This helps break up the microclimates and humidity pockets that the excess leaves produce.

 

[luckytrees]

It's the leaves that creates the energy that makes the plant grow. It's less about removing leaves to allow light in because you want to leave as much as you can on the plant ... within reasons of course. It's why I say you're trying to improve airflow through the plant. This helps break up the microclimates and humidity pockets that the excess leaves produce.

Ok, so a healthy leaf that is not interrupting airflow but covering bud sites from light, leave it?

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Ok, so a healthy leaf that is not interrupting airflow but covering bud sites from light, leave it?

tuck it and leave it except in the worst of cases.

If when you start your defoliation next time, remove leaves that are growing inwards towards the mainstem first. 2 reasons. It opens up the inner part of the canopy. It reduces the humidity in a zone where its already hard to keep leaves healthy (higher humidity and lower light). You can translate to mean you'll be removing leaves that are likely to die on their own later on anyway if you take that approach.

 

[brendog]

Thanks man, I ended up doing it the next day, getting rid of what looked like would be larf and fan leaves that were covering bud sites. Here were the results, im a little worried that it might have been too much but that was 4 days ago and they still look healthy, just hoping I didn't stunt bud growth.

With how tight your garden is id go harder but everyone has their preferences, I like speckled light on the ground so you know there is room to grow into. Everything under the canopy I strip completely or remove enough upper growth to get light to it, ideally never remove more than 1/3 of the canopy at one time and week 7+ take off all the water/fan leaves, if you're nuting right the plant has already yellowed them and they pop right off

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

With how tight your garden is id go harder but everyone has their preferences, I like speckled light on the ground so you know there is room to grow into. Everything under the canopy I strip completely or remove enough upper growth to get light to it, ideally never remove more than 1/3 of the canopy at one time and week 7+ take off all the water/fan leaves, if you're nuting right the plant has already yellowed them and they pop right off

My plants get lollipopped well before day 21 in flower. There's nothing wrong with stripping the very bottom of the plant bare. Your lollipopping looks good. I use ac infinity's ion beams for side lighting and since I started using them, my buds are rock hard all the way down to the lollipop. If you can add some side lighting, you might see the end of any larf.

 

[KolaKing]

IMO, your defol was fine. If you compare the two pics you can see the increase in light getting through the canopy. While airflow is certainly one of the reasons to prune, light penetration beyond the canopy is just as important. Defoliating will bring higher light energy to the lower branches allowing them to grow faster and catch up to the taller ones. Evening out your canopy will result in more even flower sizing as the light energy will be more equal to all the flower sites. I know that most people like to have that giant main cola to show off but I've found that having more even sized flowers facilitates better dry and cure.

I agree with @RoadKillSkunkHunt in regard to trying to leave as much leaf material as you can. I used to prune as needed throughout the grow but I've found that leaving as much leaf material on makes the plant more resilient when it comes to disease or pests. I usually just tuck whatever offending leaf is in the way of my bud site but when it just won't tuck I just snip it off.

When I worked at Jungle Boys in Los Angeles the rule of thumb for defoliation was every other leaf going down the branch. They used the same method as the one the botanist at Vertical did. Defol and light flip within a 24 hr period.

@RoadKillSkunkHunt

I've never had much luck improving my dry yields adding side lighting or UV bars. Because I use the ScrOG method all the plant material that gets light is located in tight area around the net so I don't have much in the way of areas that can larf.

Canopy top

Canopy bottom

 

[Robgrows]

Good looking plants.

Everyone is nervous about defoliation until you figure out what works for you and your plant. Each person that looks at this thread will do
their own thing. I like to go a little harder because my focus is air flow and light penetration.

This plant is a weed. If you want an example of hardcore watch some videos of Kyle Kushman and Native Sugar Shack on Youtube. It is absolutely
amazing how they come back even stronger. I don't go that hard.

I like to prep my plants before flower. The day after a feed/water I will clean up the bottoms and take off most of the large leafs and anything
that is impeding air flow. Give her 2 or 3 days to recover and flip. Now I can leave her alone until the stretch is over. Around day 20 ish I do
whatever is needed for air flow and light penetration. As mentioned above any leaf growing inwards should be first to go. You can still take a leaf
here and there all the way through flower.

Keep posting because I would like to see how they finish.

 

[JeffWix67]

I've completely stripped all the leaves off a plant...it was fine...grew out and finished right along with the other plants...yielded well too.
Is this a common practice of mine? No...I actually don't necessarily take leaves that aren't dying or yellowing...I always lollipop the plant and strip the branches off the main stem a bit but other than that I don't defoliate at all...

 

[KeyFingerFlying]

Defoliating around day 21 can be a good move if done thoughtfully. Clearing out lower growth and some fan leaves blocking bud sites helps with airflow and light penetration, especially in dense canopies. Just be careful not to overdo it — aim to keep the plant balanced so it can still photosynthesize efficiently. Every strain reacts a bit differently, so keeping an eye on how they respond is key