TLO - ph adjustment - without killing microlife

[Buddy Hemphill]

What is your pH that you're adjusting from? What's your soil mix? Why do you feel the need to adjust your pH anyway?

The microbes will buffer your pH in your soil naturally for you. I don't even bother with a pH meter, and for the most part in an organic system it's unnecessary. (though I'm sure I'll get eaten alive for this). :-)

roots organic with 1/2 gallon of Denali humus and 1/2 gal of wiggle worm, with EJ Rooters Myco and White Widow.

I start at 5.8ish at 18-22 ppm's out of the tap.

Using EJ's full line up with Humisolve and Hygrozyme. Mixing using their 'mild" at 1/4-1/2 strength.

I usually end up in the high 3.xx's ph. After 6 hrs bubbling yesterday it jumped a tenth or two.



I understand (at least I read Teaming with Microbes and stayed ay Holiday Inn Express last night:)) a little about ph and microherd health...

but 3.xx? Why take a chance....repeated feeding at this ph SEEMS bad. I am not willing to roll the dice.

Do you think feeding nutes in the 3.xx ph range continuously is cool? I mean...just what CAN the soil buffer? There has to be a point of no return no matter WHAT kinda soil you use.....right?

Or will the right soil just buffer damn near anything? I dont know and cant bring myself to experiment on my girls.

Has anybody that 'never' ph's ever just seen what their ph really is?....like how much are you calling on the soil to buffer for you. That would be good to know. There has to be a limit as to what the soil can stand.

Acceptable ranges would be a good conversation. There again, maybe the right soil makes everything ok. I just dont know...thats why I post here!!!

TIA

 

[CT Guy]

Buddy,

How much Roots organic in relation to the Denali Humus and EWC? Are you mixing in additional perlite/vermiculite/pumice?

I've heard EJ can really swing the pH of a nutrient solution, and I personally haven't used it. The forum I usually post on has a couple hundred post thread on the subject and it seems that many people do adjust it or bubble it prior to application.

Soil is amazing stuff, and the microlife can buffer quite a bit. I realize that you don't want to experiment on your plants though. The other forum I mentioned also has a thread on pH and organics. The basic concept though is that if you're applying organic nutrients (in proper concentrations) into an organic system, then you don't need to worry about pH. The plant is actually in control based on the exudates it's putting out into the rhizosphere, which in turn determines the microbes that will be most successful around the root zone. These microbes will create an environment that is properly balanced for the plant to be most healthy.

Glad to hear you've read "Teaming with Microbes." Jeff is an old friend of mine and a great speaker if you ever get the chance to hear him talk in person! :)

 

[Buddy Hemphill]

Buddy,

How much Roots organic in relation to the Denali Humus and EWC? Are you mixing in additional perlite/vermiculite/pumice?

I've heard EJ can really swing the pH of a nutrient solution, and I personally haven't used it. The forum I usually post on has a couple hundred post thread on the subject and it seems that many people do adjust it or bubble it prior to application.

Soil is amazing stuff, and the microlife can buffer quite a bit. I realize that you don't want to experiment on your plants though. The other forum I mentioned also has a thread on pH and organics. The basic concept though is that if you're applying organic nutrients (in proper concentrations) into an organic system, then you don't need to worry about pH. The plant is actually in control based on the exudates it's putting out into the rhizosphere, which in turn determines the microbes that will be most successful around the root zone. These microbes will create an environment that is properly balanced for the plant to be most healthy.

Glad to hear you've read "Teaming with Microbes." Jeff is an old friend of mine and a great speaker if you ever get the chance to hear him talk in person! :)

Thats for 1 bag of Roots. I mix 30% #4 perlite...the big stuff.

 

[CT Guy]

Thats for 1 bag of Roots. I mix 30% #4 perlite...the big stuff.

I'll be honest, I'm a bit ignorant on commercial soil mixes. I have heard a lot of people complaining that the quality of Roots soils have gone way down and people don't like using them. I'm not sure how big the bag is, but I'd have a minimum of 20% EWC or high quality compost in that mix.

Perlite is okay, but I prefer pumice because it doesn't float to the surface and they're may be some cation or mineral exchange over time, while perlite is totally inert.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,
CT

 

[Buddy Hemphill]

I'll be honest, I'm a bit ignorant on commercial soil mixes. I have heard a lot of people complaining that the quality of Roots soils have gone way down and people don't like using them. I'm not sure how big the bag is, but I'd have a minimum of 20% EWC or high quality compost in that mix.

Perlite is okay, but I prefer pumice because it doesn't float to the surface and they're may be some cation or mineral exchange over time, while perlite is totally inert.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,
CT

So given the particular nute situation I described, would you feed at 3.xx ph?

Even with the 'right' soil?

 

[CT Guy]

The Earth Juice is causing the 3.XX pH, right? I've heard if you bubble it for a while, the pH rises? That seems like the easiest fix to me....

 

[Buddy Hemphill]

I usually end up in the high 3.xx's ph. After 6 hrs bubbling yesterday it jumped a tenth or two.




TIA

The Earth Juice is causing the 3.XX pH, right? I've heard if you bubble it for a while, the pH rises? That seems like the easiest fix to me....

Doesn't rise for me very much.

I am curious about the relationship between ph and organic soil. How much can the soil (good micro filled soil) buffer?

I see organic soil guys saying they dont even OWN a ph pen. Is that to say that feeding 3.xx or 9.xx is ok in "good" soil?

I just cant see it. But thats why I am trying to learn and ask questions.

 

[Buddy Flowers]

"EJ catalyst is strong and organic for down."

that's what i use and the girls love it so i do too

 

[CT Guy]

Doesn't rise for me very much.

I am curious about the relationship between ph and organic soil. How much can the soil (good micro filled soil) buffer?

I see organic soil guys saying they dont even OWN a ph pen. Is that to say that feeding 3.xx or 9.xx is ok in "good" soil?

I just cant see it. But thats why I am trying to learn and ask questions.

I'll be honest, I don't pH anything. Most of the growers I know don't bother either. I'm not using EJ either though, I focus on the soil and would only feed during the cycle with ACT, seaweed, humic acid (Tera Vita's LC-10+7), and maybe some light molasses or fish hydrolysate (not emulsion, and not with the ACT).

Hard to say exactly what pH conditions the soil is able to handle. This is not a cut and dry answer because of the varying microbial life and conditions in very soil mix. I think people over emphasize the need to pH in general. However, I do know that my tap water is fairly close to neutral, and I'm not adding anything with a crazy pH either.

 

[Buddy Hemphill]

I'll be honest, I don't pH anything. Most of the growers I know don't bother either. I'm not using EJ either though, I focus on the soil and would only feed during the cycle with ACT, seaweed, humic acid (Tera Vita's LC-10+7), and maybe some light molasses or fish hydrolysate (not emulsion, and not with the ACT).

Hard to say exactly what pH conditions the soil is able to handle. This is not a cut and dry answer because of the varying microbial life and conditions in very soil mix. I think people over emphasize the need to pH in general. However, I do know that my tap water is fairly close to neutral, and I'm not adding anything with a crazy pH either.

If I didn't add anything that had crazy ph values I prolly wouldn't either.

But alot of people use products that do, myself included.

Not ph'ing nutes would seem to be horrible advice for anybody without a deep understanding of micro-life and their requirements. (IMHO)

I would NEVER feed at 3.xx or 4.xx or 5.xx. I ph to 6.5. It seems like cheap enough insurance.

I still haven't seen a good reason NOT to ph...it seems lazy not to.... for me, in my situation....and NOT ph'ing has the potential to fuggup my whole show.

but thats why they make Chocolate and Vanilla. We dont all think alike.

You ever locked out plants from ph'ing to high?....lol....it aint pretty....or easy to turn back green.

 

[naturalmedicine]

I'll be honest, I don't pH anything. Most of the growers I know don't bother either. I'm not using EJ either though, I focus on the soil and would only feed during the cycle with ACT, seaweed, humic acid (Tera Vita's LC-10+7), and maybe some light molasses or fish hydrolysate (not emulsion, and not with the ACT).

Hard to say exactly what pH conditions the soil is able to handle. This is not a cut and dry answer because of the varying microbial life and conditions in very soil mix. I think people over emphasize the need to pH in general. However, I do know that my tap water is fairly close to neutral, and I'm not adding anything with a crazy pH either.

What type of soil do you use?

 

[CT Guy]

My soil is a combination of peat moss, pumice, and a high quality fungal compost. I then amend it with a variety of ingredients to add nutrients and minerals.