epitome said:

;^} that radical oxygen, is just that, so radical. Intense thread here, intense indeed.

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Thanks man. Worked real hard putting this many good growers into one spot.

Ok All. I have, what may seem like, a dumb question for everyone who will offer their thoughts. This is in relation to something else for the future, but I want to see if there's conformity of opinion.

Would everyone agree that MJ can tolerate (without toxicity) more Nitrate in Veg than in Bloom?
To ask another way
Would everyone agree, If a plant was getting N supplied (in Veg) just below the toxicity level and N was kept the same into blooming; that the plant would develop nitrate toxicity once in bloom?
Would anyone feel there are exceptions to this? If so to what percentage of total (mj) populations; would you feel this applies?

guess let's see where this goes first.

I don't believe that's necessarily true. But if u ran the same level of n in bloom u would end up with leafy airy buds that wouldn't taste to good. Not something I see the purpose of bro.

Ok well crap. Lemme try this again and I'm just giving hypothetical examples I suppose too. I'm trying to pose something here from a specific perspective and I guess the airy bud was a bit outside of the scope kinda.
I'm not sure how best to put this either.
hmmm, ok. So, would everyone agree that lower N during bloom is ONLY to prevent airy buds? Or would you feel there are other reasons too?
or rather and maybe more simple
Would everyone agree that these plants "Use" less nitrate in bloom?

Let's see uhh. Ok. Plant tissues have different npk %'s relative to veg or bloom which led to common ratios like; 3-1-2 for veg and 2-1-3 bloom. Would everyone agree that the tissue % would relate to "use requirements" for differing stages?

I have interest in discussing some of the "why" components behind this, but we need to establish some sort of general consensus about this point first.

@MGRox

This question is dependent upon growing style: synthetic vs organic nutrients, coco vs soil, hydro vs peat, etc etc.

Growing with organic amendments, I would dig deeper and ask: Does the soil food web need more/less nitrate depending upon the stage of growth the plants are in? And then what of the other forms of N?

Not sure what you're getting at, but this probably grays the situation up a bit :watching:

Whats up guys. For those that dont know i am SunGrown of SunGrownGenetics. I see logic smartened up and lifted douche bag bans like a big boy should. Lets see if things are better here now.

@Tnelz much respect brother! U know my heart bro.

@Tnelz I just got gifted a real supply of Rock mutes. Company is Aussie.........a rep for the company showed me his grow and it is nice........ U done any experimental runs with these mutes?

Guys I would need some help. I have a 9x9ft tent with four 600w hps:s, two 36w 6500k t8:s and 30 newly planted plants (only feminized no auto). How should veg with this setup? Thinking about vegging 18/6 with the florescents + one hps, and then switch all four hps:s when it's time to flower. And it would be totally worth getting two more t8:s right?

J fRuSc said:

Guys I would need some help. I have a 9x9ft tent with four 600w hps:s, two 36w 6500k t8:s and 30 newly planted plants (only feminized no auto). How should veg with this setup? Thinking about vegging 18/6 with the florescents + one hps, and then switch all four hps:s when it's time to flower. And it would be totally worth getting two more t8:s right?

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Add more of those T5s and keep them as close as possible. Turn on your 600s slowly one after another or you'll shock the shit out of your plants

@suomynona ......any of those lil Merlin 9 j 9 look familiar

@way2green lower your exposure (-EV) ;)

Lol......it is a throwaway flip phone......

[QUOTme. "way2green, post: 1519812, member: 62767"]Lol......it is a throwaway flip phone......[/QUOTE]
Call me. And yes I've used rock nutes. Solid.

suomynona said:

Whats up guys. For those that dont know i am SunGrown of SunGrownGenetics. I see logic smartened up and lifted douche bag bans like a big boy should. Lets see if things are better here now.

@Tnelz much respect brother! U know my heart bro.

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I sure do. Glad ur here bro. Post away.

MGRox said:

Ok well crap. Lemme try this again and I'm just giving hypothetical examples I suppose too. I'm trying to pose something here from a specific perspective and I guess the airy bud was a bit outside of the scope kinda.
I'm not sure how best to put this either.
hmmm, ok. So, would everyone agree that lower N during bloom is ONLY to prevent airy buds? Or would you feel there are other reasons too?
or rather and maybe more simple
Would everyone agree that these plants "Use" less nitrate in bloom?

Let's see uhh. Ok. Plant tissues have different npk %'s relative to veg or bloom which led to common ratios like; 3-1-2 for veg and 2-1-3 bloom. Would everyone agree that the tissue % would relate to "use requirements" for differing stages?

I have interest in discussing some of the "why" components behind this, but we need to establish some sort of general consensus about this point first.

Click to expand...

So at the end of the day I def respect ur search for knowledge. Completely. But we are all after the biggest densest buds we can get. Seeing as nitrogen impedes this process I'm not sure why u r searching for this. Lol. Its all good bro don't take it wrong. But if u would like a scientific answer I can assure you there are any number of answers if u Google the question. What I can tell u is n gets in the way of my buds. I know that to be a fact as does anyone who added to much nitrogen in bloom. Age old concept so it's just something I follow. If it was something that was hypothetical I'd be much more interested in looking for the answer. But since it is for sure true and I know that it is the why isn't as important to me. Again don't take that wrong. I hope u find ur answer. But I do believe it would be very easy to find.

I wanna thank @Tnelz and @shemshemet for your thoughts. (as well those who liked Tnelz post as I presume you agree w/ that).

xD Tnelz i was almost ready to post when you replied. No worries, I totally understand your perspective there. I probably should've just started with my hypothesis (hindsight...).

You bring up a good point shemshemet about clarifying growing style and I often forget there's a lot of organic guys. I guess here and as I move forward; I'm referring to using chemical nutes in a ,more or less, controlled set of conditions. The intention being to know as specific of parameters for these elements as possible. Also as to "When" or "how" these are made available.

My intention with the prior questions was to establish, if there could be, some sort of generality for nitrate needing to be less in bloom; that could be analogous to saying "Grass is green". I.e. something that everyone would agree. I was / am not sure to what detail or perspective most people "in general" consider, for why N is usually less.

I think it ended up being a failed attempt to bring across what was intended and I apologize. I'll state where this was going next, maybe it will help.

This should be brought across as a hypothesis as I do not know for sure that it is correct, but this is where I was headed.

Hypothesis: "Plants utilize less "Nitrate" after bloom initiation (after meristem cells alter), in part, because a portion of the sugars that were previously available for Nitrate "reduction"; are diverted to other metabolic and reproductive functions. Any Nitrate intake over the required and remaining sugars; are deposited as organic nitrate for later assimilation. "

^^Would this statement be correct / would everyone agree with this? (this is what I'm thinkin' is true from testing and such)

(one last separate thing since airy / bud form was mentioned. A couple things I noted from the testing. With varying N levels in weeks 1-3; I found a moderate change in node spacing / bud form (popcorn or airy depending on strain). Varying N levels in week 3-6 I found minimal change to node spacing / bud form, but the largest chance for N toxicity of the 3 "3-week sets". Varying N levels in week 6-9 made moderate changes to foxtailing. Just random stuff, purely observation)

What up everyone hows it going? Im smokin on some brain freeze and cherry pie lately. Buff stuff.

Finally got a lead on bodhi's "jabbas stash" and a couple others that will hopefully proove to be some good pheno hunts. Got a gift from a friend, bunch of superman bag seeds. And i got some gdp seeds saved from an old bag of buffness.

Im about to go seed cray cray! Haha

Thanks again @Tnelz for the seedbank ref's tracking jabbas stash down was easy once my eyes were opened to all the companies killing it right now lol.

Hope to get my seeds soon, but i can only pop a few at a time. Kids = legit plant count...pleh. my next flower cycle for me wont be LST or SC plants, but single topped and or single cola plants. Experimenting to see what works best for me i guess. If i get 2 mths of veg time i shouldnt have to just do single cola plants tho... I just would like to have good sized plants so i can swap my shit out, do a quick clean and start my next cycle

Honest opinion.
Less plants + lst Super crop ... or
More plants single or double cola

Apparent drawbacks;
Less plants: bigger pots, less room to huddle plants If i LST or super crop plus longer veg time so possibly less veg growth and smaller plants due to recovery time

Single plants: lower yield per strain. Bigger bite into my plant count which means less seedlings, clones, or strains being vegged
Or bought, accumulated, which is big for me, i like accumulating genetics, hooking up homies with cuts etc. ..

Any opinions?

MGRox said:

I'm referring to using chemical nutes in a ,more or less, controlled set of conditions. The intention being to know as specific of parameters for these elements as possible. Also as to "When" or "how" these are made available.

My intention with the prior questions was to establish, if there could be, some sort of generality for nitrate needing to be less in bloom; that could be analogous to saying "Grass is green". I.e. something that everyone would agree. I was / am not sure to what detail or perspective most people "in general" consider, for why N is usually less.

------------

Hypothesis: "Plants utilize less "Nitrate" after bloom initiation (after meristem cells alter), in part, because a portion of the sugars that were previously available for Nitrate "reduction"; are diverted to other metabolic and reproductive functions. Any Nitrate intake over the required and remaining sugars; are deposited as organic nitrate for later assimilation. "

^^Would this statement be correct / would everyone agree with this? (this is what I'm thinkin' is true from testing and such)

(one last separate thing since airy / bud form was mentioned. A couple things I noted from the testing. With varying N levels in weeks 1-3; I found a moderate change in node spacing / bud form (popcorn or airy depending on strain). Varying N levels in week 3-6 I found minimal change to node spacing / bud form, but the largest chance for N toxicity of the 3 "3-week sets". Varying N levels in week 6-9 made moderate changes to foxtailing. Just random stuff, purely observation)

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To the first portion, You would really need a method of measuring root exudes and determining what the plant was "looking for" based off what it was giving off to really fine tune things in the way you describe...

Secondly, although I've not used that sort of style in years and do not give advice on chemical growing, I will say that in fine tuning your inputs to that great degree, you ought to look at all 5 growth stages separately....

Vegetative growth

Pre-flowering
Pre 12/12 female primordial flowers, usually with only two white hairs at first, show up at internodes.

Early flowering
Starting a few days after you put your lights to 12-12. Your plants stretch and pre-flowers begin turning into budding sites and then into “early flowers.”
This phase usually lasts 1-3 weeks after you switch to 12-12 lighting, depending on genetics.

Peak flowering
Your buds are becoming well-developed, with increasing numbers and density.
This is when your marijuana lays on the most THC, other cannabinoids and terpenes, size, and weight.
Peak bloom is usually the longest phase of your 12-12 cycle, lasting 2-5 weeks for most strains.

Late Flowering
Your resin glands and bud hairs are starting to deteriorate, but are not so deteriorated that your marijuana is wholly overripe, your plants are in late flowering phase. This is usually the last 8-14 days before you harvest the plants.

gardnguyahoy said:

What up everyone hows it going? Im smokin on some brain freeze and cherry pie lately. Buff stuff.

Finally got a lead on bodhi's "jabbas stash" and a couple others that will hopefully proove to be some good pheno hunts. Got a gift from a friend, bunch of superman bag seeds. And i got some gdp seeds saved from an old bag of buffness.

Im about to go seed cray cray! Haha

Thanks again @Tnelz for the seedbank ref's tracking jabbas stash down was easy once my eyes were opened to all the companies killing it right now lol.

Hope to get my seeds soon, but i can only pop a few at a time. Kids = legit plant count...pleh. my next flower cycle for me wont be LST or SC plants, but single topped and or single cola plants. Experimenting to see what works best for me i guess. If i get 2 mths of veg time i shouldnt have to just do single cola plants tho... I just would like to have good sized plants so i can swap my shit out, do a quick clean and start my next cycle

Honest opinion.
Less plants + lst Super crop ... or
More plants single or double cola

Apparent drawbacks;
Less plants: bigger pots, less room to huddle plants If i LST or super crop plus longer veg time so possibly less veg growth and smaller plants due to recovery time

Single plants: lower yield per strain. Bigger bite into my plant count which means less seedlings, clones, or strains being vegged
Or bought, accumulated, which is big for me, i like accumulating genetics, hooking up homies with cuts etc. ..

Any opinions?

Click to expand...

Either or man. U know the pros and cons. Only u know ur space. It depends on the plants themselves ya know. If they are lanky and tall bend those hoes. If they are mid sized I'd do a little topping and bending just to get more sights. Can't go wrong no matter what u do.

Very nice thread and lots of good information sharing and discussion. Just popped in to say hi.

MGRox my concern with what you are attempting to find out comes from the idea that there will be too many variables in a dynamic system that will change with each single plant as to make any findings too specific for practical use. I do like all the thought going in to what you are doing though and you certainly have lots of enthusiasm. :)

Tnelz very cool and inviting thread you set up. Peace