I have a story. someone found out that took part in a portion of the genealogy of a seed crossing got pissed and now the person that crossed the cut with one of his males is now forced to not talk about them any longer and rename them or else...whatever that means. They don't want to find out. This person who's angry has worked years to develop it to this elite plant and he feels that crossing it degrades it or misrepresents it.

I would understand him being upset because he made the strain. None of the elites I want to s1 has owners or breeders just guys who bought the cuts themselves and passed them out. Like I said a few times already none of the elite ogs have owners the guys who brought them to the community have absolutely no idea who the parents are or who bred them... @LadyL.Bean

Pimp T said:

I would understand him being upset because he made the strain. None of the elites I want to s1 has owners or breeders just guys who bought the cuts themselves and passed them out. Like I said a few times already none of the elite ogs have owners the guys who brought them to the community have absolutely no idea who the parents are or who bred them... @LadyL.Bean

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I would tread carefully. That's all. I never realized the extent some people may go. I was sworn to not talk about it. They are scared and imo I would be too. That's all.

I would never buy seeds. I've got a nice variety and try to maintain relationships in order to do so. It's not my library but everyone's library. Scratch my back so I can then scratch yours. I may not be hip to the current situation of over seas. Seems like people should get out more and make friends. Never hurts to ask most people.

Im treading carefully only s1ing and selling seeds of strains with no owners. You and I might be able to get out and make more friends but not the guy in australia. .. @LadyL.Bean

Pimp T said:

I would understand him being upset because he made the strain. None of the elites I want to s1 has owners or breeders just guys who bought the cuts themselves and passed them out. Like I said a few times already none of the elite ogs have owners the guys who brought them to the community have absolutely no idea who the parents are or who bred them... @LadyL.Bean

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I believe if u pay for them there. Yours ! Cuts or seeds if u pay with out a special provision like bro I'll only sell you these on the condition .... ....... . No diff between s1 a cut u bought and s1 beans u have paid for . If the cuts or beans are freely given then u have an obligation. To who ever gave them to you . Peace out .

Hey @Ned Kelly how possible is it for you to get an elite og like tahoe?

FidelCastro said:

As someone who has invested ridiculous amounts of time and effort attempting to create a new strain, I dislike the idea of someone taking my work and profiting from it (actually a seedback is about to offer the strain I worked for many years for sale) without my consent, it's not a classy move: by distributing someone else's work for money you are at once acknowledging its value and denying it to its creator.

As someone who lives in a foreign country with no access to "elite" genetics, I can see the point of making cuts available in S1 seed form available to people who wouldn't otherwise have them. Leaving aside that $50 US dollars is a lot of money in all except industrialized economies (I for one couldn't afford it), the real question here is respecting the intent of the person that originated the strain, cross or cut in question. Are the genetics free to reproduce or has a right been implicitly retained to the name and genetics?

For instance, Mr. Soul has announced that "Bros. Grimm" are coming back to offer their classic strains, is it ok for everybody and their aunt to keep selling seeds derived from their creations under the Cinderella, Apollo, Genius, etc. names? Clearly it's not ok. On the other hand, you can argue that certain cuts have been around long enough to be "public domain", or their originator has expressly or impliedly OKed their distribution so the S1 would be fine to sell. But the spirit here should be one of "paying it forward", which means not to charge more than it really cost to distribute it. Otherwise you'd be willfully ignoring the creator's intent out of greed.

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Because there are no laws regulating cannabis genetics, ethics plays a big role. Trouble is, most folks don't give a shit about ethics, or honor for that matter.

You may have noticed, a few breeders have stopped working lines involving Soul's genetics, others are plenty happy to take credit for his work and keep on trucking.

Pimp T said:

Before I get crucified dont forget to set crosses up for cannaventure og raskal orgnkid cali connect csi humboldt dr greenthumb dna genetics divine genetics reeferman etc. Every single one of them actively have s1s available right now this second for 7 seeds at 100+ per pack. My plans are 10 seeds for 50. No seed pack should cost over 50-70 bucks but that another topic for another day.

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First off, it's all love, anything I say is just my opinion.

The point is, most of those companies offer regular worked lines, not just s1 or fem crosses.

Reeferman has been offering regular combinations of landrace genetics, and has bred unique strains for well over a decade. DNA is a well respected outfit making regular crosses since what, 2003? Cali connect did just what I'm talking about, and while there are good plants to be found, Swerve still has problems relating to his unworked seed lines, and lost respect of many heads. I respect the fact that he's the first I saw to attempt a regular OG Kush seed line- he had bad results due to questionable methods and releasing too early to fill the demand created by the hype, then dropped the ball with customer service.
I fully believe people would talk shit about ograskal if there wasn't rumors he's tied in with Mexican mafia. Why I respect his acumen is that he did it when everybody wasn't, but I say again, in my opinion his brand would only be stronger with regular seed offerings too (frankly his popularity suggests that my perspective is irrelevant). Personally I don't see why everybody jocks orgnkid seed releases for the same reason. Nspecta does plenty of work beyond fem crosses. These guys/companies have all done a lot for the community.
Explain to me again how you're not comparing yourself to these guys lol...
I'm not clowning you or talking shit, but dude just be honest. If you care so much about the dude in Germany having prime genetics just send your German homie 200 seeds for free, and let him give them to his homies for free. Or say fuck it and charge whatever you want because money is the real motivation. 3 dozen other companies are doing it, what damage can another do right?

A lot of us sacrifice time and space to make seeds, I run fewer lights than you do, been making seed since 2012 and have never made a dime off them. Maybe down the line when I have something unique to offer I will try to make some money with them. In my personal opinion, anything less is profiting off others' work.

I can go out right now and sell, for instance, the Ghost OG cut to half a dozen guys who have offered up to a grand each, but I won't, because I know Ghost gave it to my friend for no money, and he shared it freely with me. That's a matter of perspective, some folks have honor, some folks just want money.

I fully agree with your statement about the OG kushes- though in my opinion, based off the tumors I've heard is that a lot of these guys purposefully create confusion as to the origins of their plants. I won't name names but I hear one guy stole a plant from bikers and creates subterfuge all these years so the bikers don't kick his ass for stealing it, renaming it and starting a company with it. One crowd says shame on you for stealing and lying, one crowd says thank you for making the seeds available.

The fact is honor and ethics have flown out the window in the face of "legalization", everybody is trying to cash in right now because we don't know where it's going.

Another fact is my opinion only means something to me. I have people I call friends offering untested crosses to market right now, and they know how I feel about it (not that my opinion matters), but they've also done a lot more for the community in the way of sharing cuts and information and more. I won't spend money on those seeds, but I do support their efforts and suggest their wares to folks looking for good stuff.

But hey just look at cookiemaine, selling fem gsc x gg4, seeds I call TRASH but whatever he's justified because a bunch of uninformed high times readers think they just bought gold, right?

Just curious why you would consider femmed GSC x GG4 TRASH? Or are you just against fem seeds? @NaturalTherapy

All I can say is that this is a HUGE issue, not only in the cannabis world, but agriculture in general.

Just look into Monsanto and genetically modified plants. Companies are patenting genes.

That is the road of holding onto strains as if you own them, and pretending if somebody uses your seeds in a certain way they are stealing. Gene patenting. Fuck that.

Rootbound said:

WHY is it not the right thing to do? Many people are from areas where they will never get to try the real clone.

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So take someone else's work and sell it. It's not ok bro.

Im not trippin man nothings personal like I said at first ill receive just as many death threats as I do thank yous. I dont have a homie in germany or any of these places just speaking hypothetically. I cant just make seeds and give them for free man. No one can. Id be givin up harvest paying rent water electricity and materials. It couldnt happen. But I could make enough to pay bills and buy extra materials to make the seed process happen. Im talking about $50 a pack for ten seeds here man not $100. Now I would like to make a couple bucks but I wont be making real money at all maybe what 1000 or 2000 profit if that. My 8 light space is a collab with a partner and itll be fist city if I pop up sayin "yeah so were gonna sacrifice this harvest seed the whole crop and destroy buds to shuck seeds and just make hash out of the remains which we cant even sell in our area and sell seeds for 50 a pack ok?" Hahaha yeah right. Were talkin about me having about 30-50 packs every harvest of seeds man that isnt shit man thats not real fuckin money thats chump change bill money. My rent is 1000 and light bill is 350 a month.I cant go buy a ferrari or a nissan off that. Itd be different if I had a huge grow only makin seeds then yeah itd be makin money. Im not comparing myself as in breeding skills etc. All im saying is almost every company sells s1s of elite ogs. Whether they made regs and their own strains first or last doesnt matter they still make s1s. Ive only seen s1s and s1 crosses from nspecta but that doesnt matter point is im not doing anything respected breeders dont do. @NaturalTherapy

So I went to bed and wake up to a fuck show. Anyone can do anything they want I have no personal stake in it. It's no personal thing to me. Anyone can do what they want. This isn't a shot @Pimp T or anyone else. I'm all about people making whatever beans they want and pass them to the world. I feel it's not cool to profit off it. I'm not even going to go back and read the last couple pages cuz it looks like the conversation has already degenerated into something I don't want any part off but it's an inflammatory issue.

Nope not ok at all to take someone elses work and profit off it

Tnelz said:

So take someone else's work and sell it. It's not ok bro.

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I agree 1000%

Rootbound said:

Just curious why you would consider femmed GSC x GG4 TRASH? Or are you just against fem seeds? @NaturalTherapy

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I say they are trash because the parent plants are both poly hybrid accidents bred into one another.

As a practice, or tool of preservation, I'm not against feminized seeds. In terms of a product, I do believe they are inferior. Though I freely acknowledge, my opinion in this regard is not consistent with many who I regard as experts. Even still, my personal experience reinforces my opinion

shemshemet said:

All I can say is that this is a HUGE issue, not only in the cannabis world, but agriculture in general.

Just look into Monsanto and genetically modified plants. Companies are patenting genes.

That is the road of holding onto strains as if you own them, and pretending if somebody uses your seeds in a certain way they are stealing. Gene patenting. Fuck that.

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i can't agree here. I pass clones and beans to everyone well just about anyone who asks. I make plenty of doe off flowers. I've never asked for a nickel. I don't agree with hoarding elites or beans. But shit if it was ethnically ok to s1 someone's stuff and sell it I'd be paid. So as far as I'm concerned it's wrong.

Yep s1ing and selling jjs stardawg seeds or sins sinmint or dnas holy grail kush or jjs onycd etc is disrespectful. But s1ing and selling nobodies fire og or ghost og is ok

Tnelz said:

i can't agree here. I pass clones and beans to everyone well just about anyone who asks. I make plenty of doe off flowers. I've never asked for a nickel. I don't agree with hoarding elites or beans. But shit if it was ethnically ok to s1 someone's stuff and sell it I'd be paid. So as far as I'm concerned it's wrong.

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End of the day it wouldn't really cost anything to seed one plant and pass the beans. One plant can give you hundreds of beans. At 50 a pack 2 seeded plants @ 50 a pack would turn very lucrative very quickly. Your a smart dude and this is a crazy subject. It's def one of the reasons the game is so messed up. You wouldn't actually be doing anyone any favors just muddying the waters worse than they already are.

Pimp T said:

Yep s1ing and selling jjs stardawg seeds or sins sinmint or dnas holy grail kush or jjs onycd etc is disrespectful. But s1ing nobodies fire og or ghost og is ok

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I don't think it's wrong to make the beans bro. Not at all. In fact I'd encourage you to do it. But taking anyone not just jj anyone's work and selling it isn't ok. But you know that already. Please believe it ain't about jj it's about anyone's work. If you do it to one fuck it do it to all of them but it ain't right.

Pimp T said:

. I cant just make seeds and give them for free man. No one can.. @NaturalTherapy

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Wrong. I make seed and give them away for free, and I know at least a dozen guys doing the same in attempt to build respect, credibility and solidarity within the community.

I hear what you're saying but do you recognize you can pollinate one plant and come away with 10,000 seeds? Your fifty dollar packs would still net a fine profit.

Dude I'm glad we can hash it out without any negativity. Cheers!

"muddy waters replicas"