To de-leaf plants or not to de-leaf that is the quandry

[ttystikk]

Leaves play an important role in a plant's life. All green plant surfaces perform photosynthesis. Shaded nugs are inferior. Dense ovelapping growth promotes infection. Find your balance.

Well said. Think of this like chess; begin and make every move with the end result in mind.

 

[Dagwood]

I think that we also tend to focus on leaves' role in capturing light and neglect that they're optimized for gas exchange.

 

[woodsmaneh]

I think that we also tend to focus on leaves' role in capturing light and neglect that they're optimized for gas exchange.

If the conditions are right.

 

[caveman4.20]

Some plant respond great to deleafing and others don't....I've grown a plant that would limp with anything deleafing at all and I've also grown plants that stall if you do not deleaf and burst of growth after deleafing

Something to thinknabout the plant that grow mad leaf with hardly any buds and then the plant that grows mad leaf and is shitty to trim and grows fluffy buds

I think some plants have the DNA that prooves that some plants do not need as many sun leaves or fans
One way to think of it is those leaves are reservoirs and satellites and the plant uses energy to maintain those satellites and use energy to keep reservoirs full so some plants benefit from the energy reallocated by not having so many reservoirs and satellites..... I don't have concrete proof but this is a perspective that comes from my own observations .....peace

 

[Capulator]

I am pulling all the big leaves off my plants a week and a half before I chop. It seems that this is the time flowers are ripening and not so much growing anymore, so I feel that getting light to all the lime green larfy stuff helps harden that shit off and makes it good.

 

[woodsmaneh]

All the above are good points. To Woodsmaneh, I suggest that too many leaves get in one another's way and that hurts efficiency.

To those who grow 5 foot tall plants indoors so you can lollipop the bottom three feet of them, I suggest flipping sooner; you're wasting time!

A few years ago, a guy named desert squirrel talked a lot about selective fan leaf removal specifically for Yield Maximization. I did not fully understand his methods, but they involved removing some of the fan leaves near the top, a few at a time, to aid the plant in setting and swelling buds. This was practiced in addition to the interior pruning and bottom cleanup that we're familiar with. The thread may still be out there somewhere, 'topping and pruning techniques' or some such.

don't think I agree with you. The only reason people have to take leaves off is because they don't have enough room to grow in. Plants grown outside don't need any leaf removal. When plants are crowded together you could remove some leaf from the plant, but that's again lack of room = bad planning or just a small room is all you have. People would be better off planting fewer plants so there is no crowding. Plants have a natural ability to space themselves if they have the room.

I try to have 12" to lolly pop my plants, I have found that I have almost totally eliminated bugs and PM by doing this. So my 5 footers as you have seen do very well and is not a waste of time as you suggest but deliberate planning on my part. Just have a look at my grows and I doubt anyone would say I'm hurting efficiency.

If people want to pull leaves off knock yourself out, I just think it is best to let them grow.

For me leaf pulling is right up there with some of the other backroom ideas you see and hear about on forums, they tend to take on a life of there own and soon people start quoting it as gospel and the next thing you know it becomes religion. Me I'm a science guy and don't put much stock in back room ideas as they almost always don't work. IMHO


Anyway back to our regular programming.

 

[Mr_GreenGenes]

I, for one, have found some of the "science" to be nothing but bullshit. I like to go with what works for ME. And what works for one aint gonna work for everybody. Its funny to see how just b/c some "scientist" wrote something in an article or study its taken as the law of the land. I don't grow in a lab or university, maybe that's why I've found a lot of it to be ridiculous non-sense that sounds good on paper but loses its viability in practice. I've done testing on clones from same mother plant, same soil, nutes environmental cinditions etc. Some were defoliated, some weren't at all and a cple were defoliated in veg and didn't get another defoliation after flip. The plants I gave the defoliation to during veg and stopped when I flipped were by far the biggest yielding and more resinous plants. That makes it pretty damn simple for me. And no, my plants aren't crowded. Fuck what some scientist, professor, or even other growers say, try shit for yourself and find out what works best FOR YOU. I'm a backroom idea kind of guy. :) MGG

 

[bigdaddyg8]

whats good for one isnt always good for the other .
many ways and techniques !

 

[ttystikk]

Woods, when I suggested that those who lollipop the first THREE feet of their five foot plants were wasting time, I meant it. If you're cleaning up one foot then you're not 'that guy'.

Desert Squirrel was a guy who definitely knew his shit. I would not discount what he had to say out of hand without considering it carefully. I am of course certain that DS used his techniques with care and restraint, although I'm still not certain exactly how he went about it.

Yes, we grow 'natural' plants- in an unnatural environment. No one thinks twice about lollipopping or topping to increase yield anymore- yet BOTH of these are indeed defoliation techniques.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

Its all personal tech. If you grew side by sides you would know what works for you and your plants. I believe in my world most growers do not stick with strains long enough to learn the little nuances of each cut? So what do they really have to compare?
But like Cap The last 10 days I start stripping .I probably get 3 contractor bags full the first day. If you think whats going on you might be able to add things their last feeding to help them harden up.
If you think of the end plant at week 3 of veg and start shaping that helps me and the plant. I move my branches around more then most,tuck leaves rather then pull. I am not one for following what people write in Books but I do follow the research.JK

 

[caveman4.20]

One year the dear ate up fans in one crop of clones and not the other about 30 yards away same age same host plant the clones that got ate were just one day never touched again by those deer or anything that I seen this happened about halfway through flowering two things happen those deer eaten sun leaf clones got stinkier and bulked up more than the untouched clones
My hypothesis is the plants defense mechanism kicked in and oils repelled the dear.....

 

[neverbreak]

i remove any fan leaves that are already fadin, or any that are in full shade.

neverbreak

 

[woodsmaneh]

Guilty as charged I do top and lolly pop, however most of that is done in veg, not in flower.

 

[ttystikk]

Guilty as charged I do top and lolly pop, however most of that is done in veg, not in flower.

DS did his in veg mostly, too.

 

[caveman4.20]

How do you guys feel about deleafing in moderation would you rather pull all at ounce or a few every few days or a few a week and I ALSO do majority of deleafing in veg and then more at end of ripening but nevr a ton of leaves at ounce...loving the thread

 

[woodsmaneh]

DS knows his shit, helped me out when I started in RDWC.

 

[ttystikk]

How do you guys feel about deleafing in moderation would you rather pull all at ounce or a few every few days or a few a week and I ALSO do majority of deleafing in veg and then more at end of ripening but nevr a ton of leaves at ounce...loving the thread

Moderation is almost always the wisest course. DS did his starting in veg and did several rounds of it.

 

[monkeymun]

Moderation is almost always the wisest course. DS did his starting in veg and did several rounds of it.

Indeed, you can always pick more, but if you pick too many, there's no undoing it.

 

[los0420]

People do it and have crops that look OK and they say cool things like I'm growing bud not leaf, I do lolly pop my girls indoors. I just have a problem pulling good leaves off a good plant. Using some common sense and having an understanding of how the plant works will let you decide what you want to do. The common sense part is yes you can pull the odd leaf off or tuck it behind another leaf, pull yellow leaves off is fine. Growing an indoor plant to 5 feet so you can lolly pop is great too. But pulling tons of leaves off, leaves me shaking my head. You see their is a process called Photosynthesis and that my friend happens in the leaves and thats what drives your growth in your plant. So your plant knows the right amount of leaves to grow to support optimum growth, now at some point all those leaves turn their attention to growing flowers. So along comes the whipper snipper and cuts a bunch of leaves off at some point, now all the other leaves have to work harder to produce enough energy to support the whole plant, yup they will do it but when it comes time to flower they work so muck harder and produce less. Kind of like being in a life boat with 12 people rowing vs 6 people in a life boat. Why do you think we use additives like carbo's and PK boosters, making the energy easy to get at means the plant spends more time making flowers than working on converting food for energy. So the simple answer is more leaves produce better plants, it's just science.


Peace


View attachment 348103

So I take it that you water by foliar too right cause that's what the picture shows

 

[woodsmaneh]

So I take it that you water by foliar too right cause that's what the picture shows

The picture shows two paths for water, and I do foliar once in a while but not as a rule, my plants are in a RDWC system, kind of like nitrous-oxide for plants. This should help answer your question.

this ugly thing is a close up of a stomata under an electron microscope, this is what is on the underside of the leaves.

heres how it works