Top Leaves Dark Green and Curling Down

[whgreider3]

Hello All, F
First time grower here and appreciate any tips/advice you can provide.

I'm growing some Presidential Kush clones indoors in 3.5 x 3.5 x 5.25 tent setup. (Clones came from a friend who had great yields)
The plants are in soil with a mix a of Kind Soil at the bottom and Root Organics on top. I did follow the strict guidelines with the Kind Soil and made sure I used the proper amount with each plant. (35 cups in the 5 gallon grow bag. Filling the rest with Root Organics.)

My plants are under a Phlizon CREE COB Series 1500W LED (actual power 300 watts). The light has two levels a Veg&Bloom switch and a "Stronger" switch. According to the directions, during the veg state both switches should be on and the lights should be 24-30 inches away from the canopy. Mine are 25.5 inches away from the top. I do plan on giving them some LST to lower the canopy and increase yield.

Temperature now: 76 degree F (24hr low: 72 degrees / 24hr high: 82%)
Humidity now: 34% (24hr low: 31% / 24hr high: 48%)

Watering - I've been watering them as needed using a cheap VIVOSUN 3-in-1 Soil Tester for moisture, light and pH.

I've been giving them tap water with a natural pH range in 8.5-9.5 range and heard you could use fresh lemon juice to bring it down. So I've been doing that and giving it to the plants once it's under 7 pH.

MY ISSUE - These otherwise (seemingly) healthy plants seem stressed or sick. The small leaves at towards the top and middle of the plants are all dark green and curling like claws downward and I'm not sure how to fix it.
I know the biggest issue with first time growers is overwatering, this does not seem to be the case as my humidity reader is showing that the soil is either dry or just in the moist range.
Initially, I thought the plants could be wind burnt because I had my 6 inch fan on them. However, I raised that fan up higher in the tent, so it's not directly on them and still have seen no difference over the course of a week.

I've also read from another post it could be a nitrogen toxicity issue. I haven't added any extra nitrogen to the plants so I'd be surprised if this is the issue. But obviously I'm a newb and don't have the eye quite yet to spot that as an issue.

My best guess is my room is too hot and the humidity is not high enough. I bought this tiny desk humidifier to put in there but I'm thinking I need something bigger. I've recently (just over the past two days) turned the "Stronger" light switch off to try to keep the temperature down. I hope I'm not sacrificing too much by doing that.

Pictures are attached. Please let me know your thoughts as I'm eager to keep tweaking until I get this right. Either way, this is a lot of fun and I'm learning a ton. Really appreciate any advice you all can pass along.

 

[revfunk]

100% nitrogen toxicity. Were there nutrients already in your growing medium?

 

[whgreider3]

Oh wow, 100% nitrogen toxicity is not what I expected @bubblefunk!
I believe, the person who gave me the clones gave them to me in an organic medium that he created himself. Since then, I've moved them into a new organic mix of Kind Soil (with 7 cups per gallon - per the directions) and Roots Organics Roots Organics medium. The Roots Organics was chosen based on it being recommended by Kind Soil. I was trying to use a medium that needed very little extra input other than water. It's interesting though because the only plant that has not yet been transplanted into that soil mixture does not seem to have any curled leaves at all. (Can't believe I didn't realize that initially!)

What would your recommendation be to fix that issue? Just water it real good to wash it out?

Thanks so much for reading.

 

[drcannabis.io]

I'm no expert in toxicities but I'd have to agree.

Besides that, "giving them tap water with a natural pH range in 8.5-9.5 range" this is really bad. And I don't feel so great about the lemon juice, haven't heard that before. Try leaving the water on an open container for 24 hours before watering, see if it brings the value down so you don't need to add lemon juice. You can use this standing water to wash out the nitrogen excess.

 

[whgreider3]

Wow, thanks @drcannabis.io I really appreciate you taking a look.
I have yet to give my plants any water in that range as I've always added lemon. I learned this from the person who gave me the clones and has had success as an organic farmer. But I was leaning toward buying pH down anyway so I'm just going to go ahead and do that to fix this issue.
I have definitely been leaving the water out for at least 24 hours to evaporate any chlorine, as I know that can be quite harmful as well.
Again, thank you for reading and the advice.

 

[mancorn]

Do you have a loupe or magnifying glass, and do you inspect the bottom of your leaves? Your 3rd picture, the large yellow fan leaf looks like it has a serious bug (mite) issue.

 

[whgreider3]

@mancorn I do not currently have either but I will get one or the other. I had read about that as an issue but didn't consider it here. So, I'll admit I have not inspected the bottom of the leaves. The plants didn't seem diseased or overrun to my untrained eye.

I assume you are talking about the yellowish leaf toward the bottom of the photo? I had assumed that was stress but have seen it on a few other leaves. I trimmed those immediately as I didn't want the plant to waste energy on them. Good to know I should look for mites right away.

Another reason I didn't consider it is, I have kept my grow tent and room clean. But I do own a very old home (built in 1900) so I suppose mites are everywhere. Do you have a remedy you recommend?

 

[Mikelej14]

Nitrogen toxicity for sure! Really bad too...
Also the tip burn..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, Adding lemon juice often would lower ph, lower ph means higher nute intake. Higher temp and lower humidity also mean higher soil intake. Raise humidity to 50%, not letting temp spike into 80s, and a couple good hard flushes of water only until those leaves perk back out, light feed if yellowing on new growth by 2nd week after this..
Or raise ph slightly to help lower intake also

 

[Beachwalker]

Do you have a loupe or magnifying glass, and do you inspect the bottom of your leaves? Your 3rd picture, the large yellow fan leaf looks like it has a serious bug (mite) issue.

+1 mites can cause new growth to curl too

 

[Jimster]

You are roasting these poor plants with WAY too much nitrogen. I don't know if they can be saved without re-potting in a much less nutrient laden soil. If farmer used as much nutrients to grow a small plant as most growers think they need to use (especially if you follow the recommended amounts made by the manufacturers), you would need a silo for the nutes alone. Plants need very little to thrive. More advanced techniques exist that can take a small advantage of these, but those are for later years after you get the hang of getting buds in the paper.
Flushing it out might help, but with the type of soils that you are using, the nutes are hard to remove although nitrogen is the easiest to remove and phosphorus the hardest. If you flush, make sure you have good drainage and I'd run a few gallons thru a few hours apart, then check PPMs if possible.

 

[chemistry]

Smart pots are a bitch to flush, but if you can find a pot the same size as your felt pot, you can force the flush to got through the medium and out the bottom of the pot, but like Jimster said, repot would be your most direct route to success, your plants are young enough to spin round fast.

 

[weedtech]

The Claw!

Also happens when the roots are damn close to death. In soil, this is usually fatal because it is so hard to flush and correct. Other pathogens take advantage at this point and it doesn't go well because, you gotta flush. Wet brings other nasties and soil is very slow to get to optimal once you fucked it up. People think soil is natural and awesome and all that. It can be in a master's hands. Lets just say you don't appear to be there yet.

You need to switch to coco if this is how its gonna be. Trust me.

 

[whgreider3]

Wow, thanks for all the responses and information guys.

On the medium - SHOOT! I thought I was setting myself up for a healthy low maintenance mix between Kind Soil and Roots Organics. Was hoping I wouldn't need to include lots of added nutrients etc. But it looks like I was way off and this is going to be a learning lesson.
The interesting thing is they're still growing upwards. So maybe there is hope they can be saved. I was hoping to do some LST with the two larger ones but sounds like I should put that on hold or risk stressing them to death.

@Mikelej14 @Jimster @chemistry I'll definitely try and flush them out without drowning them. I don't have any 5 gallon plastic pots but I'll see if I can order or find any asap. I did some yesterday and they look a little better. Attached, is the same plant from my first picture. Less curling, but still a lot.
Do you have a recommended soil you'd suggest I switch to?

@weedtech appreciate the info here. Haha! Never said I was a master! I tried to be very clear that I'm NOT a master.
To be honest, I chose soil because I thought it would be the lowest maintenance. As a first timer, I wanted to try and be as basic as I could and then improving from there. Generally, I don't like additives in my food so I was aiming to use a medium that didn't require lots or any nutrients. I guess that was just naive.
Is Canna Coco your preferred and recommended coco medium?

Thanks again guys, I'll work on keeping the humidity up to 50%, temp below 80 degree and flushing them out carefully.

I think the smartest thing I've done is create an account here. Stay safe and healthy.

 

[Mikelej14]

Soil is low maintenance. It regulates ph better on its own, it contains nutes from the go, and much more forgiving in general as issues come on much slower than the hydro setups. Coco included, as it has nothing in it, you will have to dose your feeding much more carefully, and more often. Each has their pros and cons

 

[whgreider3]

Soil is low maintenance. It regulates ph better on its own, it contains nutes from the go, and much more forgiving in general as issues come on much slower than the hydro setups. Coco included, as it has nothing in it, you will have to dose your feeding much more carefully, and more often. Each has their pros and cons

Got it. Do you have a soil you'd recommend for starters like me? Thanks again.

 

[Mikelej14]

Got it. Do you have a soil you'd recommend for starters like me? Thanks again.

I use Happy Frog

 

[revfunk]

I use Happy Frog

I 100% use this exact setup.....that could be my picture lol

Happy Frog is amazing, simply amazing. It also contains humic acid which helps buffer your ph so less swings up/down. Not to mention guano and mychraezae fungi.

Foxfarm liquid nutes are stellar as well. As a new grower try to err on the side of caution. I think you just learned firsthand that it's easier to add then it is to take away. Start at 1/2 strength and watch your plants for guidance.

My private messages are always open. Best of luck!!!!

 

[whgreider3]

Thank you @Mikelej14!
@bubblefunk this has been a good lesson. Really appreciate the opportunity to ask questions directly.

 

[Jimster]

Wow, thanks for all the responses and information guys.

On the medium - SHOOT! I thought I was setting myself up for a healthy low maintenance mix between Kind Soil and Roots Organics. Was hoping I wouldn't need to include lots of added nutrients etc. But it looks like I was way off and this is going to be a learning lesson.
The interesting thing is they're still growing upwards. So maybe there is hope they can be saved. I was hoping to do some LST with the two larger ones but sounds like I should put that on hold or risk stressing them to death.

@Mikelej14 @Jimster @chemistry I'll definitely try and flush them out without drowning them. I don't have any 5 gallon plastic pots but I'll see if I can order or find any asap. I did some yesterday and they look a little better. Attached, is the same plant from my first picture. Less curling, but still a lot.
Do you have a recommended soil you'd suggest I switch to?

@weedtech appreciate the info here. Haha! Never said I was a master! I tried to be very clear that I'm NOT a master.
To be honest, I chose soil because I thought it would be the lowest maintenance. As a first timer, I wanted to try and be as basic as I could and then improving from there. Generally, I don't like additives in my food so I was aiming to use a medium that didn't require lots or any nutrients. I guess that was just naive.
Is Canna Coco your preferred and recommended coco medium?

Thanks again guys, I'll work on keeping the humidity up to 50%, temp below 80 degree and flushing them out carefully.

I think the smartest thing I've done is create an account here. Stay safe and healthy.

I use Promix with about 20% composted manure and a sprinkle of Osmocote pellets. I feed about 4 or 5 times a grow and have great results without feeding more than every 2 weeks.The manure slowly breaks down providing nitrogen and minor nutrients and the Osmocote pellets supply everything else that is pretty much needed. With this recipe, you could probably go a season without adding too much more... maybe a little more Osmocote for extended feeding, but I'm in my 4th week of flowering and I have only had to feed twice so far and the plants are over 5 ft so far after training to keep lower.I prefer to control what goes into my soil and plants, nutrient wise. This also avoids Ph swings, lockouts, and deficiencies and uses tap water.
Just a suggestion as everyone has their own method that works best for them and their circumstances. After 30+ years, the recipe I use has me dialed in without issues. You will really be surprised how well plants will grow without using tons of nutes.

 

[Beachwalker]

Wow, thanks for all the responses and information guys.

On the medium - SHOOT! I thought I was setting myself up for a healthy low maintenance mix between Kind Soil and Roots Organics. Was hoping I wouldn't need to include lots of added nutrients etc. But it looks like I was way off and this is going to be a learning lesson.
The interesting thing is they're still growing upwards. So maybe there is hope they can be saved. I was hoping to do some LST with the two larger ones but sounds like I should put that on hold or risk stressing them to death.

@Mikelej14 @Jimster @chemistry I'll definitely try and flush them out without drowning them. I don't have any 5 gallon plastic pots but I'll see if I can order or find any asap. I did some yesterday and they look a little better. Attached, is the same plant from my first picture. Less curling, but still a lot.
Do you have a recommended soil you'd suggest I switch to?

@weedtech appreciate the info here. Haha! Never said I was a master! I tried to be very clear that I'm NOT a master.
To be honest, I chose soil because I thought it would be the lowest maintenance. As a first timer, I wanted to try and be as basic as I could and then improving from there. Generally, I don't like additives in my food so I was aiming to use a medium that didn't require lots or any nutrients. I guess that was just naive.
Is Canna Coco your preferred and recommended coco medium?

Thanks again guys, I'll work on keeping the humidity up to 50%, temp below 80 degree and flushing them out carefully.

I think the smartest thing I've done is create an account here. Stay safe and healthy.

It's interesting a lot of times I see newbs who don't want to address the fact that they have bugs; (don't worry you'll be addressing it before long OP)

The entire issue you have could well be caused by the mites, it may also be overfed and you most likely also have a low PH lockout going on and likely other issues as well like many first-timers, idk, but I do know you're never going to get it right until you get rid of the bugs first.

In case I wasn't clear enough with my post above I'll help you once again; do you see all these little white spots on your leaves? That's mite damage.

Doesn't matter if you cut the leaves off or not, there everywhere

One more thing & I'm sorry to tell you this and you're not going to believe it right now, but you will soon; those curling leaves are not your biggest problem

Let me be clear; you have a major mite infestation underway and regardless of what you think you're going to change, flush, feed or not feed or how high or low somebody tells you your humidity should be..

..that plant will not survive unless you address the mite issue first and foremost, good luck.