Transition between Veg and Flower

nightrampage · Dec 11, 2010

I know in Veg you can keep the lights on 24hrs...( i prefer 20 or 18 hrs of light... gives the plants a change to "sleep" i feel)... no place on earth except for like Alaska does it stay light 24hrs.. doesn't seem natural.. but anyway

My question is == when you're ready to begin flowering ... is it be better to step the plants straight down to 12hr? ..

i mean it seems confusing to the plant to go from 24hrs to 12 hrs in 1 day...

also going from MH lamps straight to HPS... all seems so unnatural..

would it be advisable to put the pre-flowering plants under the HPS for the same amount of time for a few days?

Also is it a good idea to step the hours down over time like from say 20 hr.. to 18 .. to 14 to 12 hr flower ...

like a few days or so under different time till 12hr to initialize flowering.. more closely resembling nature?

motherlode · Dec 11, 2010

12/12 is the way to go to induce flower

some folks swear by puttng plants in darkness 24-36 hours before the flip

I just flip em and run

I do like to shorten the days until Im at 11/13 the last 3 weeks or so of flower in 15 minute increments every 3-4 days

you have to play with your strains and see what works for them, seems to me those long flowering sativas that never want to finish benefit from this

nightrampage · Dec 11, 2010

yea i usually just flip em right over... to 12... just doesn't seem natural... but adding hydro nutrients can't be too natural either .. and i do that...

maybe an interesting experiment.. to see if one side switched right to 12 from say 20hr...

and another side of the room .. go from 20 to maybe 16 then 12 or something...

that is an interesting suggestion to go to 11 or so the last few weeks... i could see that beefing things up a bit.

BigCountry · Dec 15, 2010

The flowering cycle is initiated by the phytochrome response system. This is a chemical switch in the plant that quickly goes to A during light, then slowly reverts to B during the dark. :icon_spin:
Giving 24-36 hours of darkness will ensure complete transition of the phytochrome response back to it's dark cycle state, hopefully initiating flowering more rapidly. Could just be snake oil...

Misterdirt · Dec 15, 2010

My plants have never complained about the abrupt flip to 12/12. I don't think they give a rat's ass.

If someone does some research to show that a gradual change is better for some reason, I'd be all for it.

IVIars · Dec 15, 2010

I read that it doesn't affect them at all just switching to 12/12 right away. And that slowly changing the photoperiod does nothing but make your grow take longer.

smokey79 · Dec 20, 2010

i think u will find there is less or little stretch when light is gradual reduced and that why u get the stretch when u drop2 12/12, i dont see much her diff but wasnt scientific comparision jus observations

BayAreasFinest · Dec 22, 2010

I like to veg under 24/0 then put them into my flower room for 1 week on 18/6. when the lights go off on the last day of the week i do 30 hours of darkness. then start 12/12. works great

Bud Spleefman · Dec 23, 2010

I have two light cycles, either Veg/Clone 24/0 or Bloom 12/12 been that way for years, and I can't see any reason to change. Keep it simple, and easy. Too many other things go wrong, anyway, last thing I need is another timer to worry about! :)

Nilzar · Dec 27, 2010

If it did make a difference from 12/12 right of the bat vs 16/8 14/10 etc etc I'm sure it be damn near impossible to measure.

Just my .02

smokey79 · Dec 29, 2010

Go wif B.A.F. the more u piss about more cna go wrong, quicker u smoken u bud da better mate=)
i think though that on a great white go i stepped down it was couple big plnts n they never really stretched as it had happened during removal of light me thinks, would say a more natural way of doin but i never use it again

kinzla34 · Dec 30, 2010

nightrampage said:
I know in Veg you can keep the lights on 24hrs...( i prefer 20 or 18 hrs of light... gives the plants a change to "sleep" i feel)... no place on earth except for like Alaska does it stay light 24hrs.. doesn't seem natural.. but anyway

My question is == when you're ready to begin flowering ... is it be better to step the plants straight down to 12hr? ..

i mean it seems confusing to the plant to go from 24hrs to 12 hrs in 1 day...

also going from MH lamps straight to HPS... all seems so unnatural..

would it be advisable to put the pre-flowering plants under the HPS for the same amount of time for a few days?

Also is it a good idea to step the hours down over time like from say 20 hr.. to 18 .. to 14 to 12 hr flower ...

like a few days or so under different time till 12hr to initialize flowering.. more closely resembling nature?

IMO switching between metal halide and hps does create plant stress. female plants turning male hermaphrodite are often an indication of these stresses. PAR curves can be reached with using high lumen bi-spectrum lamps that like natural sunlight allow the plant to photomorphogenesis as it needs the specific wavelengths it requires.

nightrampage · Dec 30, 2010

I'm thinking about adding a HPS light to the Veg room so i have a 400watt MH and a 600 HPS ... that way when i switch it over to flower it doesn't get weirded out by the light change..

Also been researching. A long night period before the 12/12 switch sounds interesting.. sounds like some of you give them total darkness for 24+ hours before the switch to flowering. for the total Darkness...

is that just a day or 2 or total dark or just 24hrs then right into 12/12?

devious d · Dec 30, 2010

Well going from 24/0 to 12/12 isnt natural at all thats why we are all doing it,playing god with our lights ,weather you give em a couple of days in the dark first or flick the switch or break emn in gently, were still manipulating em, and well proberbly look for new ways to do improve our end results

beancounter · Dec 30, 2010

motherlode said:
12/12 is the way to go to induce flower

some folks swear by puttng plants in darkness 24-36 hours before the flip

I just flip em and run

I do like to shorten the days until Im at 11/13 the last 3 weeks or so of flower in 15 minute increments every 3-4 days

you have to play with your strains and see what works for them, seems to me those long flowering sativas that never want to finish benefit from this

i concur with the above, but instead of just putting the plants under 11 light 13 dark at the end, i just leave my timer on 11.5 hrs light and 12.5 dark.

i've tried the gradual thing, also different veg cycles but have always came back to 24/0 under white/blue floros or MH, it keeps the plants bushier, i never have to worry about making specific time to prune/water.

Personally, in my experience, going from 24 hrs of light to 12/12 right away makes the plants flower faster than the gradual aproach, i get buds forming in a week indoors, while under gradual flowering like outdoors it takes over 2 weeks to get to the same bud size, altho the plants will still finish in the same time.

MJ's a hearty plant and i've been flowering from 24/0 to 12/12 for almost a decade (while experimenting wirh other light cycles/techniques) with nothing but the most favorable results.

MJ plants do not need time to sleep in veg, to me i'd only go to 20/4-18/6 if i was running 5-10+ lights just to save on power, that's the only reason i would deviate from 24/0. no timer fer yer veg is nice.

But the nice thing about MJ is that u can gro it pretty much however you want (within the few strict limits (medium/nutes/12ish hrs dark) of course). :)

try one run gradual and try one run the other way, that's the only way to really know and see 4 yourself. :smiley_joint:

kinzla34 · Dec 30, 2010

the problem with hps is that it takes alot of wattage to produce red and far red photon flux that the plant will want to minimize elongation. So I let my induction run for 12.5 hrs a day at bud and you will see increased resin production and more trichome production. here's a link to look at the different spectrum's these lamps produce. remember anything over the PAR scale is wasted energy to a plant. inda-gro.com/gallery/album/9#5

beancounter · Dec 30, 2010

kinzla34 said:
IMO switching between metal halide and hps does create plant stress. female plants turning male hermaphrodite are often an indication of these stresses. PAR curves can be reached with using high lumen bi-spectrum lamps that like natural sunlight allow the plant to photomorphogenesis as it needs the specific wavelengths it requires.

I've NEVER experienced ANY type of plant shock switching from a 5000kelvin MH or T5/t8/t12/CFL, to HPS or 2000-3000kelvin bulb, in my years of experimenting with well over 500-1000 different types of strains/cuts, so i honestly wouldn't worry about anything like that.

That being said, the best case scenario, if you have the cash, is to run all 1000w or 430w Agrosun bulbs, they have the best mix of spectrum by far (easily better than the Hortiluxes watt:watt) and the best PAR rating around, lumens mean nothing to a plant, lumens are only a measure for what humans see with their eyes.

You can veg and flower with them and get the better results over vegging w/ MH and flowering with HPS, you can save some space. The only difference i noticed is that when flowering with HPS Horties is the buds look bigger (by maybe 10-15%) but the Agro buds are tighter and produce slightly more resin so the weight dif is actuallly usually better than the Horties.

Now if you vegged and flowered with an MH (a white phosphorus coated bulb that is about 3800-4000kelvin) in 1000w or 400w you will notice your buds and node distance will be even tighter and yer trichome production will be even a lil better than the all mighty Agrosun, BUT* there is a drop in yield and it can be significant (from 10-20% on average by a skilled grower). but some of the best personal cannasuer growers I know will take the drop in yeild as they prefer the results and many have commented that it tastes and smells better aswell, along with being more potent, and these are peeps that have been in the grow game for decades.

Just some input from personal experience and the experience of some of the best personal/med growers i know.

motherlode · Dec 30, 2010

you talking about the agrosun warm mh?

beancounter · Dec 30, 2010

motherlode said:
you talking about the agrosun warm mh?

No, i should have been more specific, they are hps. I bet they're very similar though, just an MH answer 2 the same bulb, it's about 3000kelvin i think, PAR rating WAY higher than the Horties, thes 1k bulbs aren't as easy to find as the hortiluxes, but they're out there, and are about 10-15 bucks more, but they are the ultimate 1000w hps grow bulb (veg and flower IMHO). i have 2 430w agrosun bulbs (in a 430w ballast (500w actually)) and i love them, and the 1000w Agro lasted me about 4 years and grew some of the best pot i've grown, i plan on getting another soon.

motherlode · Dec 30, 2010

its all I use in my flower room

Transition between Veg and Flower

Transition between Veg and Flower

nightrampage

motherlode

@Rolln_J

nightrampage

BigCountry

Misterdirt

IVIars

smokey79

BayAreasFinest

Bud Spleefman

Premium Member

Nilzar

smokey79

kinzla34

nightrampage

devious d

beancounter

kinzla34

beancounter

motherlode

@Rolln_J

beancounter

motherlode

@Rolln_J

Transition between Veg and Flower

Transition between Veg and Flower

nightrampage

motherlode

@Rolln_J

nightrampage

BigCountry

Misterdirt

IVIars

smokey79

BayAreasFinest

Bud Spleefman

Premium Member

Nilzar

smokey79

kinzla34

nightrampage

devious d

beancounter

kinzla34

beancounter

motherlode

@Rolln_J

beancounter

motherlode

@Rolln_J

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