Trichome Production By Different Lights

[Dan789]

how many watts was the LED Pulling

600 from the wall.

 

[iloveyoutoo]

600 from the wall.

how did the lowers come out. that looks like a top cola

 

[Dan789]

Right, anyone telling you buds like these weren't top colas are full of it. Not sure what your grows are like but I’m very satisfied with my humble efforts.
That said we’re all after the same thing, biggest harvest, least amount of cost /effort to ourselves. Be that total cost of ownership in overpriced LED fixtures or paying as you go with high wattage any style fixtures, burning through the watts is a choice we all make. Plus being able to smoke, inbibe what we respectively grow, knowing what it contains and what it doesn’t, IE molds, carcinogens, toxins.
The results this new cob kit fixture have shown and leed me to believe that I’m on the right track utilizing technology over brute force via unlimited wattage.
But everyone has there own opinion, which is what makes it interesting.

 

[DGP]

some of what you are saying i agree with. But you are forgetting spectrum. plants grow differently under different spectrums. I said i don't think LEDS are quite there yet, meaning with technological advances i think they can and will be. what you said about cost is definitely true. it a high cost of entry. i worked as an assistant manager at a hydro shop and ran a warehouse and delivery service so i have experience in every facet of the industry. only thing i don't know and wont do on my own is set up the electrical work. i leave that to the professionals as i don't want to burn down the building. we sold every time of light and every type of set up... i have had hour long debates with sales reps, customers an coworkers. nothing could produce weight like a 1k hps. hortilux was the best back then, but things are changing now. Numerous DE hps(with mixed in LEC/CMH ) like a 70/30 splits in a stationary high point area is the best way to do it in a warehouse. which is the only way to go as residential electricity is too much money. this is strictly indoor though. i would love a greenhouse with supplemental lighting. that is the future for most. a couple niche indoor brands will survive and flourish though. as far as a closet grow LED would be a great choice. it doesn't run as hot and will cost less to run. but for anything serious LED is not the way quite yet. hopefully it will in the future. would be interesting to see how it turns out.

I did not forget about spectrum I said 90 CRI at 3500k ? How does an hps light at 39 CRI produce better spectrum than a 90 CRI source?

 

[iloveyoutoo]

I did not forget about spectrum I said 90 CRI at 3500k ? How does an hps light at 39 CRI produce better spectrum than a 90 CRI source?

it doesnt, my mistake. but it is high in red for flowering. how much do you pull off your LEDs ? and how many watts does it pull?

 

[DGP]

The biggest variable in my garden is me. I have been growing only 3 years so each cycle my goal is to beat my last one. So far that is what is happening and I am between .5 and .7g/watt but always trending up. Last 2 flower cycles were a limited number of plants cause I was sorting out genetics and trying to pull all the plants from one young mother. Per square footage it was up about 10% in yield. What's exciting to me is the current cycle where I am seeing growth I have never seen before. The first cycle through with LED I was not sure how close I could get the lights and was way to conservative but the yield per unit area still managed to match the previous cycle which was under a 1K HPS fixture.

The LED fixture is pulling 750 watts from the wall and is over a 4X5' area in a 5X6 room. The biggest impact on the grow room has been a reduction in AC cost as well as the 250 watts/hr saved in energy. coverage is better due to the 12 cobs spreading the light out more evenly. If the LED fixture has a better spectrum than my HPS and it covers the area better with a slightly brighter level then how wouldn't it be better for the plants? The plants don't sit there and go "those photons were made by LED we wont grow as much" Again a photon is a photon and all you have is spectrum and intensity.

The only other factors in the case of LED comparison is you have the advantage of diversity of angle (improving penetration) and the advantage of increased brightness potential because you can run the lights really close (very little heat under the LEDs) if you need more intensity (based of course on how much light the plants can handle). On an energy front you also have even more efficiency besides the 25% reduction in energy at max brightness but you can turn the lights down (dimmer control) during the first part of the cycle until the plants get bigger and can handle more light. With HPS you don't have dimming controls or if you do you cant adjust it over a range but have 2 or 3 preset values like 600, 750 and 1K.

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack this thread so I'll stop now, sorry.

Dee

my 1K light is still hanging above the LEDs:

 

[PhatNuggz]

Is a photon from an LED physically different than a photon from HPS or CMH etc?.....
___________________________________________________
The light penetration issue in cannabis culture has always perplexed me. People stating that the penetration of this light source/type or the other is better or worse. No offense to anyone but I see it as a myth. A photon is a photon and it makes no real difference how you create it but the physics are the same whether it is produced by HPS, CFL or LED the plant doesn't care. It cares about frequency and intensity but all that being the same a photon from a given point at a given angle is still a photon. It can only penetrate by passing by obstructions, ultimately being blocked at some point along it's way by leaves and stems or whatever is in it's path.

However, if a fixture such as a single bulb HPS has sort of a single point of origin so the angle of the light is essentially coming from one common location, then its penetration into any point in the canopy is limited by it's angle and how many things get in the way and block the streams of photons (again, things like other leaves and branches). So, given an LED COB system where in the same grow space you have 12 COBs (for example) and therefore 12 point sources instead of one then obviously your penetration into the canopy is going to be better because of the diversity of the angles of light entering the canopy. Lets say you have discrete LEDs and many more of them, well that would be even better cause you might have hundreds or even thousands of diverse point sources of light (like the Spyder fixtures). So, LEDs or any light source has no physical advantage in light penetration but the configuration of the sources does just due to geometry. This is why some people use light movers! The sun moves all day long so the reason I think nature designed cannabis to grow like a Christmas tree in shape is it takes advantage of the constantly moving angle of the sun. We prune and train out plants to avoid the natural shape indoors to solve the problem of a fixed light source which is unnatural :).

Anyway, most of my LED opinions are based on what I learned over the years working in the LED field. Some of my assumptions and observations could be wrong but I am pretty sure the penetration thing is a myth used by people selling lights to convince you that you need to keep buying the next great thing. I say you build a great LED system and ignore the sales guys that just want to keep selling you newer stuff. I heard yesterday at my local hydro shop the guy raving about the next big change in CMH technology that is a "must have" so it continues on (same song 50th verse). However, If I had to choose lighting right now I would be buying a good CMH, COB LED or Quantum board arrangement. I think CMH is still a great light and it is more color correct than most HPS lights but I still think LED is the best given a properly thought out fixture. However, now that I have run LED COBs for a flower cycle and a couple veg cycles I really like what I am seeing as well as the reduced AC and power bill in general. Most of my enthusiasm for LEDs are based on experience in the lab and published specs but in the grow I am seeing things I never saw with HPS lighting. Also the color correctness of the current LEDs is awesome. No more Blurple color or red shifted HPS, but a CRI of 95 and light that looks like a Summer day. Look up the CRI ratings for various light sources such as HID, CFL or whatever and you will see pretty low numbers on most lights except quality LEDs and CMH sources.

Many people think LEDs are not ready for prime time and I think this opinion exists because of all the shitty, falsely specified, blurple lights out there that so many people have tried and not based on the performance of a quality system that is either DIY or built by real professionals (like RapidLED's Vero fixtures or Timber, Fluence and so on). The reason is the commercial ones that have been properly engineered and have more honest specs cost a lot more so often people buy the ones on Amazon or Ebay that are for the most part crap. In the case of cost that is where DIY or kit builds shine because they are often 1/2 the cost or lower.
___________________________________________

Dee

TRUTH

LED penetration is just one of many ignorant blanket statements, proffered by the non LED industry

 

[iloveyoutoo]

as much as people think there are myths for hps being the best, there are people on the other side who jump on the LED hype train. i dont want to sound rude but getting .5 gram a watt on 750 isn't even a pound. you can get 1 plus #s with 600 SE HPS. hell,just get two daystars and slap 600s in there. or fire up that 1k again.

 

[DGP]

as much as people think there are myths for hps being the best, there are people on the other side who jump on the LED hype train. i dont want to sound rude but getting .5 gram a watt on 750 isn't even a pound. you can get 1 plus #s with 600 SE HPS. hell,just get two daystars and slap 600s in there. or fire up that 1k again.

Hey, I was just being honest about my growing skill. The skill of the grower has nothing to do with light physics. I am doing whatever I can to increase yield including building a lighting system and a UC system. Each harvest is bigger than my last and that is my goal. However, when it comes to light I have the engineering credentials to back it up but I am not interested in dick wagging about yields but I am interested in the science of horticulture and making each grow an improvement over the last.

Dee

 

[iloveyoutoo]

o

Hey, I was just being honest about my growing skill. The skill of the grower has nothing to do with light physics. I am doing whatever I can to increase yield including building a lighting system and a UC system. Each harvest is bigger than my last and that is my goal. However, when it comes to light I have the engineering credentials to back it up but I am not interested in dick wagging about yields but I am interested in the science of horticulture and making each grow an improvement over the last.

Dee

right on! it looks good, keep it going

 

[Leew421]

LED is more than there already. These cheap ass LED that people buy are not there yet. I run Spydrx plus and get crazy performance and can out do any traditional bulb. We can start by touching the open diode and you touch the 1000 watt bulb.

 

[Leew421]

And for numbers, when I was keeping track my best run was Skywalker kush. I ran 16 plants in a 4x4 under one Spydrx and pulled 3 bags and had over a whole one in trim to run into oils.

 

[iloveyoutoo]

And for numbers, when I was keeping track my best run was Skywalker kush. I ran 16 plants in a 4x4 under one Spydrx and pulled 3 bags and had over a whole one in trim to run into oils.

how many watts does it pull from the wall? the spyder that is

 

[iloveyoutoo]

it probably came out leafy and small. sorry guys you just cant beat DE hps no matter how bad you want to

 

[MirrorZen]

Double ended is the superior choice from what ive personally seen, ppl pulling 3 per light, with quality as well. Different strokes for different folks, sixstring kills it with cobs in just about every department including yield.

 

[Leew421]

660 from the wall. You are more than welcome to look over my diary and my post. There is a reason I have been here for a year and have almost 3500 likes. I use a commercial light. 1500 each my g. You honestly believe that I would waste my time and money?

 

[Leew421]

I don't need your approval for shit. You sound ignorant to the light game

 

[GT21]

Uvb increases oil.. Gland and changes the chemical make up of the trich cuticle

 

[Leew421]

First and foremost its genetics, then lighting\environment. I assure you I have uv in my spectrum already. I have seen uv burn.

 

[GT21]

First and foremost its genetics, then lighting\environment. I assure you I have uv in my spectrum already. I have seen uv burn.

You can make pot better with light alone but starting with good genetics makes it really easy