Troph Blumat Thread

[Seamaiden]

Yeah, I had lots of problems until I started following that rule with the coco. Nowhere nearly as important with soil, but coco's a different beast. But my poor back needs help, and anything that doesn't require electricity to operate, especially during winter (we lose power often here) that also saves me that pain really catches my attention.

 

[vancerz]

I have used blutmats for years mainly in coco or roots organic mix I always just used JUST water to maintain the root zones moister then once maybe every week I would manually fertilize the plants. this saves a ton of money vs the drain to waste method.

There is no need to drain to waste the biggest problem espicaly in hot conditions is the water leaves the medium too quickly and salt builds up. Using blutmats the right way will counter this effect.

I have had had 1 blutmat take care of a 60 gallon pot out doors in the cali sun no problems.

Also plants on blutmats grow just as quick as hand watering its all about knowing when to water and how wet to keep it.

just my 02cents

 

[Seamaiden]

If you've been using TBs for years, then you've got to add more than a measly two cents.

 

[vancerz]

the only time I messed up with blumats was when I first got them, I added the nutes to my res out doors ( H&G at 500 ppm for 12 foot tall plants) in pure coco they begin to yellow and what not a month after I had the blumats set up. I figured they needed more nutes since they been growing great and all and were massive.. that was not the case too much water was evaporating and causing the ppms to keep climbing I had lock out due to too much salt in my medium. so be careful about salt build up if you are using blumats to FERTILIZE your coco medium indoors or out I would recomend flushing the medium every now and then to stop salt build up that you WILL get.

thats my other measly 02 cents.

 

[Cheeseus]

Alright, since it's not a DTW, which is what I currently do in order to ensure least build-up, what levels would you be feeding at? <1.5EC? Well below that? Or do you deal with that another way?

Thanks!

Usually about 1.0-1.5, No real build up. You could flush/turn your Bulmut Full on for a while, same as you would a drip system.

 

[Cheeseus]

I am handwatering til run-off. Only timers being used currently are for lights and fans. Upon initial examination, though, it appears that the TB system won't "overwater", i.e. water to the point of significant run-off (that lovely 20% number we coco growers love to work with).

Well i guess you switched set ups but lets see of i can help ya here. You can get them to drip to runoff. They are fully adjustable from a stream to a drop. Dry as hell or swimming in it. It all depends on how you adjust it.

As for if i was hand watering and wanted to use these i would hook them up to the pots im hand watering (i do this with my moms) set them to the desired dampness. If you feel your plants need to have some runoff """MAJIC20""" water till you get it. KISS :cool0010:

 

[Seamaiden]

<smacks forehead> OH! I didn't realize they're ADJUSTABLE. Criminy. Thanks!

 

[Cheeseus]

Nice call Seamaiden with the 15-20% runoff. In a drain to waste, this is essential!

Why didn't I think of that ;)

T

Essential for what?

No runoff, No flush until w7!

Its a good rule of thumb for Noobs but defiantly NOT essential.

 

[Tesseract]

I have used blutmats for years mainly in coco or roots organic mix I always just used JUST water to maintain the root zones moister then once maybe every week I would manually fertilize the plants. this saves a ton of money vs the drain to waste method.

There is no need to drain to waste the biggest problem espicaly in hot conditions is the water leaves the medium too quickly and salt builds up. Using blutmats the right way will counter this effect.

I have had had 1 blutmat take care of a 60 gallon pot out doors in the cali sun no problems.

Also plants on blutmats grow just as quick as hand watering its all about knowing when to water and how wet to keep it.

just my 02cents

Thats a pretty good idea vancerz! Interesting methods all around.

I still am under the impression that a lower consistent feeding is better then a once a week at higher doses.

I missed the fact that they are adjustable too:lipssealed

We need a side by side full comparison from start to finish!

T

 

[Seamaiden]

Right now I still consider myself very new to coco growing, with only four coco harvests under my belt. Doing that run-off thing really, really helped me improve my product and yield overall, that's when I started seeing how coco can really perform. However, I prefer efficiency when and wherever I can get it, not to mention ANYTHING that saves my back. Here are a couple of pix of what I currently have going on, you might be able to see why something like a TB system, especially later in flowering, could be a good solution for me (especially because it uses no electricity).

I have everything up on tables not primarily for drainage, but so I don't have to squat or bend over, as spending prolonged periods of time in such a position is not only difficult, but leaves me in a world of *hurt*. I also use a rolling seat, the kind mechanics use, to put my buckets on to mix the nutes, so I don't have to life. I also empty the catch buckets when they're not more than a couple of gallons full, otherwise I will hurt myself. Everything is geared toward saving my back, as much as I can at least.

**Edit** Yes, I know those girls in the back ain't lookin' too good. I think I've pushed them too far in those 1gal pots waiting for the other stuff to catch up. Plus, it's been too cold in that room again, need to get the inline on a thermostatic controller.

 

[Tesseract]

Essential for what?

No runoff, No flush until w7!

Its a good rule of thumb for Noobs but defiantly NOT essential.

I don't think thats entirely accurate when referring a particular method, such as runoff in a drain to waste configuration, as a rule of thumb for noobs.

It almost sounds a little condescending :passingjoint:
I almost take that as, since I am doing runoff in a drain to waste, that I am doing something unproductive and foolish which is just not the case.

I, a lot of times, can never tell the tone in text very well so if that is not your intent then no hard feeling and sorry for the confusion.


The simple fact is that runoff to those levels are used commercially and in experienced professional environments. The drain to waste runoff system is the most widely used and popular method for commercial hydroponics there is. Now why is it that all these people are choosing to have runoff in those ratios if its just a precaution for noobs? Doesn't make any sense.

Take a look at most peoples drain to waste methods with coco and the like. I would say that 99% of the experienced growers with great results, that are not noobs, running these systems use that ratio.

Plants will grow in just water. Doesn't mean they will grow well. Unless you can honestly have a side by side comparison, that without a doubt every time produces a consistent result in volume and quality, I will choose to do what the experienced professionals do and stick with what works well.

T

 

[antimatter]

My problem with blumats is you have to adjust each one individually all the time and the cone drys out which messes them up and causes them to not operate properly and you can't really tell if the cones dried out without actually opening it up. Oh and they get stuck on which causes flooding and they didn't use standard 1/4 plumbing.

Waste of money I really regret making that purchase.

 

[Rasta311]

My problem with blumats is you have to adjust each one individually all the time and the cone drys out which messes them up and causes them to not operate properly and you can't really tell if the cones dried out without actually opening it up. Oh and they get stuck on which causes flooding and they didn't use standard 1/4 plumbing.

Waste of money I really regret making that purchase.

Not to be rude but you have been using them incorrectly then. They are very problem free for me and tons of other growers on the web. If your cone dried out your medium was to dry, as the plant medium will start to feed from the cone if to dry. I find your experience to be overall opposite of everyone that Ive seen use these and I would guarantee that you had them set incorrectly. It sucks that you are chalking them up as bad due to your misuse. And for the record you can run these with standard 1/4 tubing and a lot of growers use this so they can buy more tubing at the local hydro shop. All you actually need is the cone and the 3mm dripper line. EVERYTHING else can be purhcased at your local hydro.



As far as the drain to waste: You will see better results NOT watering to run off. But in order to do this and not worry about buildup you will need to run drip clean. Also you should not allow the medium to dry for above reason but also so your PPMs don't rise. I flush one time with no buildup!

Yes these are COMPLETELY ADJUSTABLE!!. So yes I find these better than handwatering because you can dial them in perfectly when to water with perfect results.

 

[antimatter]

Not to be rude but you have been using them incorrectly then. They are very problem free for me and tons of other growers on the web. If your cone dried out your medium was to dry, as the plant medium will start to feed from the cone if to dry. I find your experience to be overall opposite of everyone that Ive seen use these and I would guarantee that you had them set incorrectly. It sucks that you are chalking them up as bad due to your misuse. And for the record you can run these with standard 1/4 tubing and a lot of growers use this so they can buy more tubing at the local hydro shop. All you actually need is the cone and the 3mm dripper line. EVERYTHING else can be purhcased at your local hydro.



As far as the drain to waste: You will see better results NOT watering to run off. But in order to do this and not worry about buildup you will need to run drip clean. Also you should not allow the medium to dry for above reason but also so your PPMs don't rise. I flush one time with no buildup!

Yes these are COMPLETELY ADJUSTABLE!!. So yes I find these better than handwatering because you can dial them in perfectly when to water with perfect results.

You wanna know why some of my cones dried out ? because I had to keep adjusting them to stop flooding my floor when they would get stuck on
and that little dial is very very sensitive to adjustments just a small amount can make it to dry or to wet.

Went something like this

- Cones filled and soaked like instructions say > Dripper Adjusted working fine for a couple days
- Dripper gets stuck on.. ok gotta adjust it a bit
- Dripper is working fine now
- Check drippers 12-18 hours hours later oh shit medium got to dry whats going on here? gotta adjust it again
- Repeat week after week and at the end some cones are empty some are full some are half full......

I don't wanna tinker with smart cones rather just turn on my pump for my drip lines or set the timer to do the work, its a lot cheaper and reliable because I know exactly whats going on, its not like I can leave my grow room for a couple days when there flowering and drinking like crazy.

 

[Tesseract]

As far as the drain to waste: You will see better results NOT watering to run off. But in order to do this and not worry about buildup you will need to run drip clean. Also you should not allow the medium to dry for above reason but also so your PPMs don't rise. I flush one time with no buildup!

I have offered a reason as to why MOST hydroponic commercial farmers and 99% of drain to waste users have at least a 15-20% runoff ratio as well as basically every product involved with this set-up and coco. All you can say is that your method is better without proof.

You are having to flush with another product and often so I don't understand how this is more practical and cheaper. There is a reason why people tend to space feeding out in certain cultivation methods. Like our own bodies, the plant does better and like a more consistent feeding regimen. I would rather give the plant what it needs, consistency, then have to slush her all the time. Last time I checked, The plant does not like being flushed unless as last resort.

T

 

[Rasta311]

I have offered a reason as to why MOST hydroponic commercial farmers and 99% of drain to waste users have at least a 15-20% runoff ratio as well as basically every product involved with this set-up and coco. All you can say is that your method is better without proof.

You are having to flush with another product and often so I don't understand how this is more practical and cheaper. There is a reason why people tend to space feeding out in certain cultivation methods. Like our own bodies, the plant does better and like a more consistent feeding regimen. I would rather give the plant what it needs, consistency, then have to slush her all the time. Last time I checked, The plant does not like being flushed unless as last resort.

T

I will come back to this but the one thing I dont understand is who said anything about flushing the plants all the time. Maybe you need to check out what drip clean does. It does not flush plants. And this thread is about blumats. No other hydro setups. I am showing the way with BM and coco. You will find majority dont water to run off with BM. You are taking some of my facts and trying to apply it to other types of growing. Drip clean cost $20 a bottle and will last years in most cases. Could be the damn interweb but it seem like you are a little defensive. Not to be a dick again; But it looks like you are quick to shoot me down without knowing much of what I doing with BM in general. My style has come from years of growing in different forms. This is a style that was shown to me and works great hands down. There are plenty of people that have seen the light of BMs. Stick around and try em out.

Also IM not trying to prove my way of growing. I am proving that BM rock out though! I lost the need to try to prove anything in my garden years ago. I do appreciate the comments though!

 

[Tesseract]

I will come back to this but the one thing I dont understand is who said anything about flushing the plants all the time. Maybe you need to check out what drip clean does. It does not flush plants. And this thread is about blumats. No other hydro setups. I am showing the way with BM and coco. You will find majority dont water to run off with BM. You are taking some of my facts and trying to apply it to other types of growing. Drip clean cost $20 a bottle and will last years in most cases. Could be the damn interweb but it seem like you are a little defensive. Not to be a dick again; But it looks like you are quick to shoot me down without knowing much of what I doing with BM in general.

Also IM not trying to prove my way of growing. I am proving that BM rock out though! I lost the need to try to prove anything in my garden years ago.

I understand what Drip clean, clearex, ect is. Yes I am being a tad defensive because there is mis-information being popularized in defense of systems I have run and basic facts within the industry. I have said nothing to prove what you are doing is wrong nor am I mixing up the systems. These things are not complex and function in VERY similar ways to other devices.

Consistency is what metabolic systems like. Runoff is what Most people in the industry run professionally and with drain to waste in coco. Also, everything I stated about hand watering IS fact and can be backed up.

your not at all being a dick and I respect the fact that you are cordial. Thanks for that!:friday:

As said, I really want to see your results and hope to further our conversations knowing that we both respect each other and can debate with logic for the better. No one is trying to put you down, just want to watch and help!

Peace

T

 

[Rasta311]

I understand what Drip clean, clearex, ect is. Yes I am being a tad defensive because there is mis-information being popularized in defense of systems I have run and basic facts within the industry. I have said nothing to prove what you are doing is wrong nor am I mixing up the systems. These things are not complex and function in VERY similar ways to other devices.

Consistency is what metabolic systems like. Runoff is what Most people in the industry run professionally and with drain to waste in coco. Also, everything I stated about hand watering IS fact and can be backed up.

your not at all being a dick and I respect the fact that you are cordial. Thanks for that!:friday:

As said, I really want to see your results and hope to further our conversations knowing that we both respect each other and can debate with logic for the better. No one is trying to put you down, just want to watch and help!

Peace

T

I totally understand about misinformation as it floats all around the web. I have to disagree about the comparison to clearex and drip clean. Clearex is a flushing agent that Im not to fond of. As it was explained to me drip clean prevents salt build up from even starting. It is meant to be ran for the full crop at amount of .4ml per gallon. I also feel BM are a one of kind system and not similar to any other system. There are some that are close but no cigar. Yes I do agree runoff is what most coco grower do... including myself when not using BM. But you wont find BM growers following suit!

Since Im not a picture poster anymore, here is a great thread on a 16k BM grow. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168101

 

[Tesseract]

I totally understand about misinformation as it floats all around the web. I have to disagree about the comparison to clearex and drip clean. Clearex is a flushing agent that Im not to fond of. As it was explained to me drip clean prevents salt build up from even starting. It is meant to be ran for the full crop at amount of .4ml per gallon. I also feel BM are a one of kind system and not similar to any other system. There are some that are close but no cigar. Yes I do agree runoff is what most coco grower do... including myself when not using BM. But you wont find BM growers following suit!

Since Im not a picture poster anymore, here is a great thread on a 16k BM grow. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168101

Clearex can be used in conjunction with your standard fertilizer program to pretty much do the same thing all the way through the grow by not allowing salts to deposit and leeching them from the medium. Sound pretty familiar?
Have I ever ran it straight through, absolutely not. Why? not sure, just like you said though, mainly used for a flush ect... but then again I am doing a 20% runoff so my salts don't accumulate as fast.

I am pretty sure that drip clean is cheaper then clearex so I will most def. pick up a bottle over the clearex if you feel it's a better product. I have heard great things about it already and people seem to generally trust in its ability so Im game to try.

Do you follow the bottle when using it in your standard solution/mixture? Or do you reduce the amount for standard feeding and follow the bottle to clean the system or flush?

Thanks for the info:anim_44:

T

 

[Rasta311]

You can follow the instructions on the bottle and run your preferred PPMs. Never use more than the .4ml per gallon as it does not have a good effect on the plants.