turning kief into wax/budder

pussOGbrah · Dec 18, 2013

Hello all, Im curious how i could further process some high quality dry ice sift into a more wax/budder product.

The keif was made with OG kush popcorn and some sugar leaf...

I want the final product to be good for smoking glipped/globbed onto bowls, and maybe even dabbed? not interested in eating/topicals...

I've seen some tutorials and threads on this topic, but am not totally satisfied with the final product i'm seeing..I really dont want a black oily-oil, i would prefer a more blonde wax/budder.

I have made extremely good bubble before, but dont feel like dealing with draining bags and cleaning up, so i went dry seive. I would do bho, but dont want to deal with butane..

My PLan:
>>>I'm thinking about mixing a small amount of high proof alcohol or moonshine in with the keif so it has a wet cookie dough consistency. Then let it dry/cure a bit. Would this dissolve the trichome heads from the keif and cause them to form a homogenous oil with a budder wax consitency? Will it smoke good? or taste like alcohol? do i need to purge this with heat or just let it dry?

****Also, do you think i could even come close to butane extract quality with a method like this? Should i just go with bho if i want wax/budder? I would like to use ethanol vs butane, but i am open minded and if a ethanol extraction/infusion wont give me what im looking for, i can accept that...

Any feedback is really appreciated, i know there is some farmers out there that can point me in the right direction..peace!

WalterWhiteFire · Dec 18, 2013

There are like 3 threads on this in the last month.
Butane for the win IME.

Ethanol will work but won't taste nearly as good. The method you described would just ruin the sift IMO. You'd have oil holding together a bunch of already extracted plant material. It won't dab or melt. It would burn and taste terrible.

I can garuntee it will come out darker than you want. But if it can wax it will lighten up the color a bunch. It depends on how old these trichs are if it will be sap or shatter. The older the more likely you'll get sap.

Shatter to wax is easy. Sap to wax is impossible.

How much sift are you extracting?

BakedReality · Dec 18, 2013

Curious about this myself...

What kinda of numbers out of like an OZ of kief? Just looking for an idea...

WalterWhiteFire · Dec 18, 2013

Obviously it depends on the quality of the sift. Anywhere from 30%-60% return. I usually expect 50%. So if you expect 14gs of oil you need about 3 300ml cans. Soak method works well. Short soak times for the best quality. Long soak times for best yields.

pussOGbrah · Dec 19, 2013

WalterWhiteFire said:
Obviously it depends on the quality of the sift. Anywhere from 30%-60% return. I usually expect 50%. So if you expect 14gs of oil you need about 3 300ml cans. Soak method works well. Short soak times for the best quality. Long soak times for best yields.

First off, Walterwhitefire thank you for contributing, i really respect your input..]

^^>>Yeah i can def see how mixing everclear would ruin the keif..might seem to work better in my head than reality haha.

-So if you had a oz or two of some PRIME og keif (fresh popcorn) dry sift, you would do a butane soak over all other processing methods? Or just keep it as keif?

With the butane soak, i've seen a few tutorials but not 100% confident how to do.
but i like that i dont need to blow through a tube and risk blowouts..

--would you mind doing a quick breakdown on how you would do it for me?

--Would this increase the quality of the keif or just change consistency?

--if youve done it before and have any i would love to see some pics of keif turned budder/wax/etc..
Thanks bro

fractaLz · Dec 19, 2013

I only blast kief, far superior returns and quality IMO. I never understood the logic of blasting can-after- can with trim, that's just more time and $$ along with tons of plant lipids I don't want in there. If I'm doing nug run I'll still tumble most of it into kief, and do a 80% kief/20% bud ratio. I average the same returns as WalterWhiteFire.

WalterWhiteFire · Dec 19, 2013

Thank you for the kind words Puss.

I personally like sift but there is no market for it. So if its for personal use and its super tasty I'd just top bowls and mix it into edibles.

In my hood, If you need to turn a profit from it then it's gotta dab.

The point of the soak is to keep everything below the butane evap point for the entire extraction. Which means cold cold cold. Butane Evaps at like 34 degrees.

Get a stainless steel thermos. Fill it with your sift. Put in freezer for a few hrs along with your cans of tane. Longer the better.

I blast into a seperate thermos then pour it over the sift so the pressure from the can doesn't blast your sift everywhere. Put it outside somewhere cool in the shade. cover with hand towel. A 30 min soak will make the highest quality. A 2 hr soak will get it all, sometimes I will soak over night. So 2 washes works well but uses more tane.

Once it's soaked it needs to be filtered through a coffee filter or 25 micron bubble bag. I use a SS strainer with a coffee filter nested inside. I like to put the entire cake into the filter and rinse down with some more tane. Rinse the inside of the thermos too. Lots of oil sticks to the sides.

IME a 300ml can can extract around 6 grams of oil. So do the math and use the correct ratios or you'll hit saturation points and won't extract fully.

You could try first on a gram to see what %returns you should expect from your 2 oz and plan accordingly.

I'm going to do a reprised tutorial to my Powder Day thread. Ill post some finished pics there. GL dude!

WalterWhiteFire · Dec 19, 2013

fractaLz said:
I only blast kief, far superior returns and quality IMO. I never understood the logic of blasting can-after- can with trim, that's just more time and $$ along with tons of plant lipids I don't want in there. If I'm doing nug run I'll still tumble most of it into kief, and do a 80% kief/20% bud ratio. I average the same returns as WalterWhiteFire.

What up fracz?? Interesting point in extracting less plant waxes and lipids with sift. That has to be one of the main reasons sift BHO is usually sappy. It's semi winterized. What texture do you normally end up with? How fresh of sift do you use?

fractaLz · Dec 19, 2013

Digg the name bro! I tumble dry, cured trim, that I will lightly crush with gloves on. I have found that to be the best for flavor within the kief... I can end up with any texture I want, an absolute, or a concrete. It really just depends on temperature. I immediately get hard sap with the first scrape, from there I go shatter or I go wax.

I don't know what I like better. There is this whole debate between wax and shatter. For me, I know I'm not whipping the butane into the product right off the bat, plus I purge before I turn it into a concrete (wax). So, if we were to compare wax that was whipped and not purged, then no, I don't fux wit it. I purge for at least 4 hours @ 120f, before I begin my wax process. So by the time I get my wax, it has been purged for at least 4 hours, and I don't do any type of whipping until it has been heated back up to 165F for 15 minutes. So I feel pretty good about the quality of my wax, and it is always from kief, there are minute levels of plant lipids as indicated when I did an ethanol bath test to determine plant lipids present.

For my shatter I keep at 29.5/118f/12hrs+

Its weird though, my wax is always tastier than my shatter. Even though I know scientifically speaking there are more terps present within the shatter. The temps in the wax get up to 170F, so you'd think there would be way less taste, right? I dunno, maybe because the wax is more porous and less viscous, the taste can pull through more??

The product I like to make that sings to my soul is winterized BHO. Even though there is definitely less taste, there is something about it that my body and mind like more. Its definitely added time and not as tasty, but oh man is that smoooooooooooth:D.

My next move is to learn and get my ice wax method down

So that's where I'm at with all this right now lol

WalterWhiteFire · Dec 19, 2013

I find my wax is faaaar more tasty than my shatter. I read something along the lines of the air you add makes the terps more noticeable. Where they are all locked up in the shatter.

Absolute shatter for me only. But the kids all want wax.

Are you using a soak method or blasting tubes?

fractaLz · Dec 19, 2013

That makes sense to me, because you can just tell watching the wax melt vs. watching the shatter. Seems like the shatter is working harder lol.

I've done the soak, but usually freeze my can and tube for 24hrs then blast. 30 grams at a time... But that is all going to be a thing of the past as I'm upgrading to a closed loop system for 2014

WalterWhiteFire · Dec 19, 2013

Badass! How many cans does it take for your 30 gs? This is 80% sift 20%buds you were talking about?

WalterWhiteFire · Dec 19, 2013

Have you ever tried to wax your absolute?

fractaLz · Dec 19, 2013

I use 3/4 of a can for 100% kief run, and I use two cans for the 80/20 ratio of kief/bud. I only ever blast 3/4 of each can to avoid mystery oil.

fractaLz · Dec 19, 2013

I haven't turned absolute shatter into wax, but the principle should be the same as when I turn sap into wax

SCFSYNDICATE760 · Dec 28, 2013

I USE CONCENTRATEINDUSTRIES.COMS SMALL TUBES AND CAN RUN STRAIGHT KIEF..NO BLOW OUTS...WAY SAFER..KIEF WAX ALWAYS YIELDS INSANE, IF GOOD..

AlterEgo860 · Jan 3, 2014

WalterWhiteFire said:
Thank you for the kind words Puss.

I personally like sift but there is no market for it. So if its for personal use and its super tasty I'd just top bowls and mix it into edibles.

In my hood, If you need to turn a profit from it then it's gotta dab.

The point of the soak is to keep everything below the butane evap point for the entire extraction. Which means cold cold cold. Butane Evaps at like 34 degrees.

Get a stainless steel thermos. Fill it with your sift. Put in freezer for a few hrs along with your cans of tane. Longer the better.

I blast into a seperate thermos then pour it over the sift so the pressure from the can doesn't blast your sift everywhere. Put it outside somewhere cool in the shade. cover with hand towel. A 30 min soak will make the highest quality. A 2 hr soak will get it all, sometimes I will soak over night. So 2 washes works well but uses more tane.

Once it's soaked it needs to be filtered through a coffee filter or 25 micron bubble bag. I use a SS strainer with a coffee filter nested inside. I like to put the entire cake into the filter and rinse down with some more tane. Rinse the inside of the thermos too. Lots of oil sticks to the sides.

IME a 300ml can can extract around 6 grams of oil. So do the math and use the correct ratios or you'll hit saturation points and won't extract fully.

You could try first on a gram to see what %returns you should expect from your 2 oz and plan accordingly.

I'm going to do a reprised tutorial to my Powder Day thread. Ill post some finished pics there. GL dude!

a 300 ml can yielded me 25 grams.. 3 runs in a tiny stainless steal turkey baster.. repacking in between runs.. only holds 20 grams of plant material at the most.. and another 30 grams of keif were added to the material. and packed.. only able to pack it 2 times full.. then I did a repack of the ran material 1 time on each of the tubes.. making it a total of 6 runs threw the baster.. used 1 can.. and maybe a quarter of a can .. at the very most.. I stop spraying wen its clear.. and repack.. over and over.. . now that I have 2 14 inch glass tubes.. im going to run both of those.. and 1 stainless steel baster.. and I wont use more then 2 full cans per glass tube.. and a quarter a can for the baster..

I have no clue why people run SOO MUCH MORE THREW.. but ive found. I only got a .1-.3 of a gram EXTRA .. if I did my turkey baster a half a can.. ran 2 times 1 fresh pack.. and 1 repack adding keif to the repack and fresh pack... and didn't get shit for EXTRA.. wen using all that EXTRA BUTANE..

for the 14inchers. I plan to run half a can.. then pull that fucker off.. and shoot an ENTIRE CAN THREW.. so 1.5 cans per 14incher.. I think will be MORE THEN GOOD. but ill repost if its not.. im doing my big run. today or tomaro . all DEPENDS.

so just a heads up.

Sirdabsalot · Jan 3, 2014

Wait?

25 grams of finished product from one can?

Wow.

BestAround · Jan 29, 2014

ive also found that smaller tubes.. running good buds.. and mostly kief.. gets me the best yield per can. SS turkey basters.. and a 2 cans of butane.. yielded me 40 grams. hard to believe but I think packing these tiny tubes super tight.. and running to clear.. and using 2 pyrex dishes.. for a first and second spray.. kuz if u put the baster down. and do another.. then pick up the already ran basters and spray a tiny bit in there till it goes clear.. it will be a lil sappier.. but u get like 90-99 percent of everything that u want extracted. atleast so far. I tried using a few other kinds of extractions.. on my already ran product to see if there was anything in it.. and its deff getting out everything id be willing to smoke.

with my bigger tubes I feel like u waste butane .

BestAround · Feb 26, 2014

i feel like bho burns better in joints.. then kief does.. honestly. i smoke lots of joints.. put a piece of bho down the center and it smokes great.. put kief in the center.. and it canoes a lot easier.. im all about what works easier and doesn't make me waste any buds.. i like rolling between 0.8 and 1 gram joints. with maybe .05 gram of oil .. and i get destroyed every joint. but with bowls i don't mind kief..

i got a variety.. i got 2 kinds of shatter.. 2 types of jelly hash.. and 10 strains worth of kief.. and 6 strains of nugs .. ATM.. i got 3 tubes full ready to go.. for my run of bho in the morning. i was thinking maybe ill do a mason jar bho soak with some of this nice ass kief.. and the kief came off nugs.. not trim.. so its STINKY as fuck.. i love cannabis period.. but there are places were every kind of concentrate is amazing.

turning kief into wax/budder

turning kief into wax/budder

pussOGbrah

WalterWhiteFire

BakedReality

Bean Poppin..

WalterWhiteFire

pussOGbrah

fractaLz

WalterWhiteFire

WalterWhiteFire

fractaLz

WalterWhiteFire

fractaLz

WalterWhiteFire

WalterWhiteFire

fractaLz

fractaLz

SCFSYNDICATE760

AlterEgo860

Sirdabsalot

BestAround

BestAround

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