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U.S. Will Enforce Marijuana Laws, State Vote Aside

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U.S. Will Enforce Marijuana Laws, State Vote Aside

Cali smoke Oct 16, 2010 316 Replies 41,732 Views
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Cali smoke

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Oct 16, 2010
#1
U.S. Will Enforce Marijuana Laws, State Vote Aside
By ADAM NAGOURNEY
Published: October 15, 2010

LOS ANGELES — The Department of Justice says it intends to prosecute marijuana laws in California aggressively even if state voters approve an initiative on the Nov. 2 ballot to legalize the drug.

The announcement by Eric H. Holder Jr., the attorney general, was the latest reminder of how much of the establishment has lined up against the popular initiative: dozens of editorial boards, candidates for office, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and other public officials.

Still, despite this opposition — or perhaps, to some extent, because of it — the measure, Proposition 19, appears to have at least a decent chance of winning, so far drawing considerable support in polls from a coalition of Democrats, independents, younger voters and men as Election Day nears. Should that happen, it could cement a cultural shift in California, where medical marijuana has been legal since 1996 and where the drug has been celebrated in popular culture at least since the 1960s.

But it could also plunge the nation’s most populous state into a murky and unsettling conflict with the federal government that opponents of the proposition said should make California voters wary of supporting it.

Washington has generally looked the other way as a growing medical marijuana industry has prospered here and in 14 other states and the District of Columbia, but Mr. Holder’s position — revealed in a letter this week to nine former chiefs of the Drug Enforcement Administration that was made public on Friday — made explicit that legalizing marijuana for recreational use would bring a whole new level of scrutiny from Washington.

Mr. Holder did not fully spell out the reasons for the decision, but he did allude to the reluctance of the federal government to enforce drug laws differently in different states. “If passed, this legislation will greatly complicate federal drug enforcement efforts to the detriment of our citizens,” he wrote.

The Los Angeles County sheriff, Lee Baca, who has been one of the leading opponents of the measure, quickly embraced the Justice Department’s stance. He said that the initiative was unconstitutional and vowed to continue enforcing marijuana laws, no matter what voters do in November.

Supporters of the initiative have portrayed support for it as another example in an anti-incumbent year of voters rejecting authority.

“Bring on the establishment,” said Chris Lehane, a senior consultant to the campaign pushing for passage of the initiative. “This campaign, and the energy driving it, is predicated on the common understanding that the establishment’s prohibition approach has been a complete and utter failure, as proven by the point that today it is easier for a kid to get access to pot than it is to buy a beer or a cigarette.”

But Roger Salazar, a political consultant who has been directing the effort to defeat the proposal, said that Mr. Holder’s statement should reinforce deep concerns about the initiative, including the way it was drafted and what he called inflated claims by its backers of what legalization might do.

“This is sort of a shot across the bow from the federal government: They’re saying that, ‘If this thing moves the way we think it is, we’re going to come after you guys,’ ” he said. “That gives California voters one more reason to take a deep breath.”

California’s becoming the first state to legalize marijuana for recreational use would provide a real-life test of theories that proponents of legalization have long pressed: That it would provide a new stream of revenues for government, cut down on drug-related violence and end a modern-day prohibition that effectively turns many citizens into lawbreakers.

As it is, no matter what voters or Mr. Holder do, marijuana use in California these days appears, for all practical purposes, all but legal.

Mr. Schwarzenegger signed legislation last month that made possession of an ounce of marijuana an infraction — it had previously been a misdemeanor — punishable by a $100 fine. Medical marijuana dispensaries are common in many parts of the state, and getting a prescription is hardly challenging. Baby boomers who had not smoked marijuana since college now speak openly at dinner parties of their “medical” experimentation with the drug. The smell of marijuana is hardly unusual at outdoor concerts at places like the Hollywood Bowl.

A Field Poll last month found that 50 percent of respondents said that marijuana should be legalized; that is up from 13 percent when the organization first asked the question in 1969. And 47 percent said they had smoked marijuana at least once, compared with 28 percent when the question was asked in 1975.

“This is the first generation of high school students where a majority of their parents have smoked marijuana,” said Ethan Nadelmann, the executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, which has been pushing for passage of the initiative.

The presence of the initiative on the ballot has encouraged Democrats, who argue it will lead to increased turnout among younger voters.

Notably, none of the major statewide candidates have endorsed the measure. But perhaps just as notably, none have made the proposition a campaign issue.

The state Republican Party has officially come out against Proposition 19 and plans to urge people to vote no, said Ron Nehring, the party chairman. He called repeal a “big mistake” and mocked the notion that placing the proposition on the ballot would help Democrats.

“We call that their Hail Mary Jane strategy,” he said.

John Burton, the chairman of the California Democratic Party, said his party had decided to stay neutral on this issue. Asked if he supported it, Mr. Burton responded: “I already voted for it. Why not? Brings some money into the state. Helps the deficit. Better than selling off state buildings to some developer.”

Mark Baldassare, president of the Public Policy Institute of California, noted that polls showed the measure breaking 50 percent, but said that given the history of initiatives in the state, that meant its passage was far from assured.

Opposition has come from a number of fronts, ranging from Mr. Baca and other law enforcement officials to the Chamber of Commerce, which has warned that it would create workplace health issues.

Still, the breadth of supporters of the proposition — including law enforcement officials and major unions, like the Service Employees International Union — signal how mainstream this movement is becoming.

“I think we consume far more dangerous drugs that are legal: cigarette smoking, nicotine and alcohol,” said Joycelyn Elders, the former surgeon general and a supporter of the measure. “I feel they cause much more devastating effects physically. We need to lift the prohibition on marijuana.”
 
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G

GRAMTOWN

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Oct 16, 2010
#2
theres always a catch.. I say vote no on prop.19. it isnt built for citizens its just another way for politicians to get rich off of the people. atleast we got the terminator to decriminalize an ounce. we can slowly work our way to a better legalization initiative that is more beneficial to the medical users of all but still fair to rec users.
 
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E

elBarracho

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#3
Vote NO!
 
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B

BUDOGHI

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#4
Those that say vote no to protect their own livelihoods are hypocrites and willing to profit off someone else's incarceration just like private jailers. Vote yes to let the world know what you think of the criminalization of cannabis. Improvements can be made in the law in the future. Personally I believe there should be no controls on cannabis and no taxation beyond simple sales tax.
 
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H

halitzor

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#5
BUDOGHI said:
Those that say vote no to protect their own livelihoods are hypocrites and willing to profit off someone else's incarceration just like private jailers. Vote yes to let the world know what you think of the criminalization of cannabis. Improvements can be made in the law in the future. Personally I believe there should be no controls on cannabis and no taxation beyond simple sales tax.
Click to expand...

Prop 19 won't prevent anyone from getting arrested / prosecuted smarty pants.

The feds are still going to go after the big ops and you better believe they're going after those factories.
 
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M

mrdizzle

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#6
heres my take, the whole legalization is has cut in line. acceptance of marijuana nation wide is on the up and up. more and more states are adapting MMJ laws and more will follow. I honestly think the whole legalization bit is about 10 premature. Get all state rocking medical first, or at least 70%, then take a bite at legalization. trying to legalize now is honestly going to 1.) allow many other states to say "see, there is no medical value, its just to get it legalized 2.) kick back the MMJ movement as a whole as a legit resource for the sick.

crawl, walk, run. greedy cunts like dick slurp lee are going to fuck it alllllll up, mark my words, this bill will be the biggest regret in a couple years
 
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squarepusher

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#7
lol when $2 million dollar Oaksterdam grow warehouse gets raided by the DEA
 
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B

BUDOGHI

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#8
I feel a need to respond to halitzor's comments. Do you always respond to people who disagree with you by demeaning them with childish terms like "smarty pants"? The beauty of this forum is we can agree to disagree with respect. If your voting against prop 19 for reasons other than protecting the value of your product then my comments don't apply to you. In my opinion the value of the prop. 19 referendum is as a statement that can bring the issue of legalization into the national debate and force Mr Obama to show his hand. Maybe your much younger than I and are willing to wait another twenty plus years for legalization, I'm not. The last ray of hope I saw was Jimmy Carter and nothing since then. So I would like to see legalization before I die. I could bring the argument that medical MJ has derailed complete legalization but what's the point? " Prop 19 won't protect any one from getting arrested." Really? Did you mean in won't protect any one from being arrested by the Feds? I don't see prob. 19 as a great law but I hope to see it create much national debate and result in a rescheduling of cannabis from schedule 1 to schedule 3 taking the feds out of the picture. Peace and please show fellow Farmers the respect they deserve.
 
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C

Cannabear

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Oct 16, 2010
#9
BUDOGHI said:
I feel a need to respond to halitzor's comments. Do you always respond to people who disagree with you by demeaning them with childish terms like "smarty pants"? The beauty of this forum is we can agree to disagree with respect. If your voting against prop 19 for reasons other than protecting the value of your product then my comments don't apply to you. In my opinion the value of the prop. 19 referendum is as a statement that can bring the issue of legalization into the national debate and force Mr Obama to show his hand. Maybe your much younger than I and are willing to wait another twenty plus years for legalization, I'm not. The last ray of hope I saw was Jimmy Carter and nothing since then. So I would like to see legalization before I die. I could bring the argument that medical MJ has derailed complete legalization but what's the point? " Prop 19 won't protect any one from getting arrested." Really? Did you mean in won't protect any one from being arrested by the Feds? I don't see prob. 19 as a great law but I hope to see it create much national debate and result in a rescheduling of cannabis from schedule 1 to schedule 3 taking the feds out of the picture. Peace and please show fellow Farmers the respect they deserve.
Click to expand...


no, he meant prop 19 wont keep anyone out of jail for cannabis. which is true.

our laws in california are already lax enough, its less than 100 dollar fine for anyone caught with up to an ounce without a medical rec. prop 19 will be putting more people in jail for cannabis then our current law for numerous reasons.

im all for "legalization"... but prop 19 is not legalization in any shape or form. its taxation and regulation. nothing more. just because the news calls it legalization doesnt mean its true.

prop 19 is one of the worst things that could happen for our cannabis movement.
 
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D

DANKSY

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#10
vote no to keep monsanto out of it.. they fuck everything up.
 
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xX Kid Twist Xx

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#11
if you got a med card keep rocking it, people that are not sick want to smoke as well. its gonna pass and im glad. all this sky is falling stuff is for the birds. from what i been hearing since last year peeps cant get money for bud unless its top notch. its like alcohol scotch is legal but johnny blue is still $35 a shot or Remy martin Louie the 13th $150 a shot. you just need to grow king Louie
 
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B

brookstown

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#12
mrdizzle said:
heres my take, the whole legalization is has cut in line. acceptance of marijuana nation wide is on the up and up. more and more states are adapting MMJ laws and more will follow. I honestly think the whole legalization bit is about 10 premature. Get all state rocking medical first, or at least 70%, then take a bite at legalization. trying to legalize now is honestly going to 1.) allow many other states to say "see, there is no medical value, its just to get it legalized 2.) kick back the MMJ movement as a whole as a legit resource for the sick.

crawl, walk, run. greedy cunts like dick slurp lee are going to fuck it alllllll up, mark my words, this bill will be the biggest regret in a couple years
Click to expand...

What he said...

the whole bill was a way to justify the grow factories in the Town.
 
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Seamaiden

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#13
BUDOGHI said:
I feel a need to respond to halitzor's comments. Do you always respond to people who disagree with you by demeaning them with childish terms like "smarty pants"? The beauty of this forum is we can agree to disagree with respect. If your voting against prop 19 for reasons other than protecting the value of your product then my comments don't apply to you.
Click to expand...
I'm voting against it because it would make me a criminal for an activity in my own home should a minor happen to be within whatever a particular jurist might wish to allow to be defined as "space" as I am when I'm consuming.

Then there's the whole issue of the feds going after us. This state is broke precisely because of how we vote, which looks great from the outside but it's costing us to have people literally determine a budget by *vote* without having good working knowledge of this budget. We are, at this time, over $20billion in debt, we can not afford to defend such a proposition as this, and we're going to have to. In other words, it's a game we can't play, cuz we can't afford to pay.

Not to mention, since I'm at it, the fact that Prop 215 patients are still not entirely accepted throughout the state and we are *still* fighting to assert our basic rights to medical use. Never mind the idea of trying to make what is still widely viewed as a street drug in the US readily available.

I live in one of the counties that still has an outright ban on dispensaries and all similar models, the powers that be feel that 215 is still nebulous territory, legally speaking, and continually cite federal law.

So, what would 19 do besides make more services unavailable to me? What would it do besides create more problems with the laws already on the books simply by becoming another law on the books? And a badly written one at that. What do they mean "in the same space as a minor child" (paraphrasing)? House? Room? Yard? Garage? Within 100 yards? You know how it's determined? In the courts, using people just like you and me as precedent-setting cases. Can you afford that? I can't.
BUDOGHI said:
In my opinion the value of the prop. 19 referendum is as a statement that can bring the issue of legalization into the national debate and force Mr Obama to show his hand.
Click to expand...
It's not a referendum, we don't have that process here, but what's more salient is the idea that President Obama hasn't already stated unequivovally, i.e. in no uncertain terms, where he lands on the issue. He's said it very plainly--he does not support anything resembling recreational use.

Mr. Dizzle's nailed it, what is going to be palatable and acceptable is medical use. We get everyone on board with that, then it will appear less like a street drug (although many aspects of this culture do little to assuage those preconceptions of the general public). We're at least 10 years ahead of the times. Also, this proposition is nothing *but* a taxation structure that... I guess it's a stretch to call it a pyramid scheme, but it sure does seem to be constructed in such a manner as to completely discourage homegrowing. In my opinion.
BUDOGHI said:
Maybe your much younger than I and are willing to wait another twenty plus years for legalization, I'm not. The last ray of hope I saw was Jimmy Carter and nothing since then. So I would like to see legalization before I die.
Click to expand...
I have no idea how old you are. You could be 20 years old and die just like the son of a friend of my husband's. Or, you could live into your mid-90s like my grandparents. That's not a good reason to push through bad legislation, certainly not good enough for me.
BUDOGHI said:
I could bring the argument that medical MJ has derailed complete legalization but what's the point? " Prop 19 won't protect any one from getting arrested." Really? Did you mean in won't protect any one from being arrested by the Feds?
Click to expand...
No, it won't protect anyone from being arrested by the feds or local authorities. See above regarding consumption in the same space as a minor.

MMJ is salient because it's what the nation as a whole is more ready and willing to accept. We are not, as a whole, ready to accept complete and full legalization. We are still yet to accomplish MMJ in a majority of states, we need to at least get that, first.
BUDOGHI said:
I don't see prob. 19 as a great law but I hope to see it create much national debate and result in a rescheduling of cannabis from schedule 1 to schedule 3 taking the feds out of the picture. Peace and please show fellow Farmers the respect they deserve.
Click to expand...
The debate may cause the issue of rescheduling to be addressed, but that is purely a federal issue, they will never be removed from the equation.
 
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G

gadgetsmoke

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#14
You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Sea Maiden again.
 
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B

Buddy Hemphill

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#15
so the feds are saying it plain...

pass this law and we ARE gonna fuck with you...


Ummm....I don't even see options.


I like it the way it is.


why wake a sleeping giant?
 
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fractal

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#16
ButtaFlave said:
vote no to keep monsanto out of it.. they fuck everything up.
Click to expand...


But, wait. . . DJ Short says that we can "deal with monsanto later" !


Can you believe that senile old bastard?
 
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C

chranotik

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Oct 16, 2010
#17
monsanto GMO MJ seeds, coming to a store near you!
 
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skwirlgirl

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#18
What you thought the feds would sit still for the legal crap law??haha..they already are pissed that we grow here. If we push it too far they'll HAVE TO START BUSTING the big boys...and the Oakprofitsterdam will be the first

these are scary times when a bunch of greedy dispensory owners with big $$$ (..uhh Billionaire Soros, Michael Lee and other immoral capitalists)can waltz right into California and almost take over the show....They say it's even right now 50/50. Personally I dont' buy those polls. They dont account for the crazy amount of voters who will literally come out of the hills to vote NO. Another thing if they keep saying the YES votes are slightly ahead that might backfire on them 'cause folks might take it for granite that weed will be legal and not vote

Let's say it somehow squeeks by and passes. Alot of idiots who didn't read the law and voted YES (cause it's supposed to be fully legal!) will quite surprised when LEO comes knocking or takes their weed away 'cause it doens't have a tax sticker...haha

Prop 19 is such an obvious scam. I just dont see how anyone can vote YES...It blows my mind how just the word 'legal' can fool sooo many people.

. For one thing it's already 'legal' for most anyone with half a brain and 150$ (for a script).

Prop 19 TAKES AWAY rights to caregiving and gives all the POWER to the DISPENSORIES!!! Get it??????

This PROP 19 scam law is written by and for the DISPENSORIES...

We need a law for the PEOPLE!!

A yes vote is retarded IMHO...and if another stoner like Budoggi' says i'm uncool and a hypocrite for saying that they know where they can stick it:party0042:. My greed pales in comparison to the onslaught of corporate hell that awaits us if this thing goes through. This is not a legalization law....it's a regulation law...and a taxation law.
 
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BigJer

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Oct 17, 2010
#19
Prop 19 = 80% lower price! not bad for people who just wanna smoke day and night.
 
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xX Kid Twist Xx

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#20
80% lower price for crap herb. if you got mites or pm or just grow shitty weed then you may want to vote against this bill. but if you grow the good herbs like i see some of the people on here you dont sweat a thing. right now if you got a badass beer you could be a millionaire. so peeps like greenthumb danny or grow master just off the top of my head no favoritism here. you will still get your dough.

one last thing if your clones come from a dispensary chances are you weed is not wanted, unless you grow some good herb. tell you one thing the shit cali is sending out east this year is horrible, the Canadian shit blows it out the water.
 
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Replies 316
Views 41,732
Started Oct 16, 2010
Latest post Mar 29, 2012
Starter Cali smoke
Forum Marijuana News & Legalization

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