Undercurrent Blackberry Fire Day 1

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

My light fixtures are each 2x4 and there are four of them. They are Samsung f564b double strip lights, on par with cobs or quantums, with 5 per fixture. When all 4 are on full power it pulls about 1640 watts.

When I have the lights on full power the lux reads 10000 at 16" away. When I have the lights about 3" to 4" away at 250w it reads just under 8000.

I assume I can get away with this because of the lack of distance to the canopy? Now if the plants were bigger and taller then the issue I see runni g into with not running full power would be canopy penetration?

heisen · Aug 29, 2018

Dude!8000 is garbage,I get more than that with a T5.Talking about the phone lux meter i was the one that put you on to that so your preaching to the choir.i use 8000 on moms that i dont want to grow no joke.My flower scrog is getting 40,000 average across the entire scrog and in veg i shoot for no less that 24,000.Thats how you build strong roots.HPS puts out 190,000 8 inches below the bulb and about 35,000 all the way around the footprint.
Heres a reading 20 inches below a 1000W CMH

and all the way around the outside of a 4x5 on the edge.

So when i built and designed my cobs this is the number I was shooting for.I dont want no less than 30k anywhere where my plants are getting light and i aim for 20k in veg

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

I'm not concerned with the all out number because I know my lights are right on par with yours. I can give you the build sheet and you'll see what I mean.

All I'm discussing is the difference between what my reading is with 1000w and 250w.

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

What meter are you using so we can get this equalized?

heisen · Aug 29, 2018

Shawnery said:
I'm not concerned with the all out number because I know my lights are right on par with yours. I can give you the build sheet and you'll see what I mean.

All I'm discussing is the difference between what my reading is with 1000w and 250w.

On par with mine?your crazy.No where in my footprint will i get anything less than 20,000 at 16 inches.Just stop man please.LISTEN to what im telling you.

heisen · Aug 29, 2018

Shawnery said:
What meter are you using so we can get this equalized?

dont matter,ive tried a few and there all the same,

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

I mean on par with quality and parts. I would assume that our numbers are pretty similar! There's no way with my build and parts that my 1640w are that far off of yours!

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

Not sure what was wrong with the other app but this time I measured at canopy height at full strength and at canopy height at 250w.

At 100% I'm getting 40,000 @ 5 inches and at 250w I'm getting 10,000 @ 5 inches. Not sure what was f,d up about the last reading, maybe something covering the lens. If you dont believe it I can get my wifes phone to get a photo.

That's under one singular strip of lights so that means I'm getting that coverage equally through out the entire footprint. There's even a chance, I really don't understand lighting, when raised up higher the reading could increase or decrease exponentially because more strips are added to the meter reading as you raise the fixture, right?

heisen · Aug 29, 2018

Shawnery said:
Not sure what was wrong with the other app but this time I measured at canopy height at full strength and at canopy height at 250w.

At 100% I'm getting 40,000 @ 5 inches and at 250w I'm getting 10,000 @ 5 inches. Not sure what was f,d up about the last reading, maybe something covering the lens. If you dont believe it I can get my wifes phone to get a photo.

That's under one singular strip of lights so that means I'm getting that coverage equally through out the entire footprint. There's even a chance, I really don't understand lighting, when raised up higher the reading could increase or decrease exponentially because more strips are added to the meter reading as you raise the fixture, right?

sounds about right,10,000 is half than a T5 at 8 inches.Its not enough to build good roots.

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

HERE'S AN EXCERPT FROM THE BUILD I BASED MY FIXTURES OFF OF. The only difference is he's using 6 strips and I'm using 5 off the same driver he is. His build is cover a 3x3 footprint while mine is for a 2x4 footprint. Our numbers will be slightly different but pretty close.

HPS (I'm using the most efficient set up here)

1x 600w Hortilux SuperHPS bulb - $58
Hydroplant Hydroponic 600w HPS/MH ballast - $77
Extra wide air cooled hood - $75
Spectral Graph
38.4% efficiency, (150 lumens/w out of 390 lumens/w)
232.7 PPFD (density of PAR) @ ~18-24"
90,000 lumens
$0.90 per PAR WATT
$210 total cost (cheapest hps setups are ~170$)

LED

6x 3000k Samsung F564B 22" strips - $159.06
HLG-320-48B driver - $93.20
Spectral Graph
48v, 6.7a drive current, 300w power
52.3% efficiency (168 lumens/w out of 321 lumens/w)
769 PPFD (density of PAR) @ ~18-24"
50,400 lumens
$0.32 PER PAR WATT
$252.26 total cost, PLUS aluminum U frame for mounting

heisen · Aug 29, 2018

thats actually a 320 watt setup on the LED but thats not really that important.My question is why are putting plants in DWC and only giving them 10k LUX.Thats insane to me.

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

Everything I've read before talking to you and since has said low light is best for rooting clones, which these basically are.

I looked up lumens of a t5 and they dont seem to be that high? Everything I was reading was saying they are about 5000 lumens?

Everytime I tried upping my lights and not even a lot they wilted badly. Everything I've also been told is listen to your plants and the minute I did what you said and upped the lighting they reacted VERY unhappily.

Can you please reconcile this? You asked and I answered.

heisen · Aug 29, 2018

yes rooting clones is low lights but once they have roots let em do there thing.They prob wilted from low humidity and higher temps.my clones always wilt for a few hrs after i put them under than they come on strong.What is your room temp and humidity?Im sure if you cranked up the light to 20k Lux they will be greatful.

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

By the way the GFF at a ratio of mixing it 20:1 and then dosing that mix at 1 to 2 ml per gallon seems to be effecting the roots just as hydroguard does. The old ones are getting lighter and thicker while new cellophane noodles are just starting to grow out of the old ones.

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

Temp was around 77 day and 74 night and humidity at the time was 60%. Now I'm running 80 in the day and still around 74 at night with a humidity of 70%. My new environmental numbers should put my girls in the ballpark for the supposed perfect VPD number.

So when I upped it not even 15% 5 hours later when i checked them they were sad! Then i turned them back and a couple hours later they were happy. The thing is they never really had roots. No roots when i removed them from dirt. Roots that came in started looking bad less than a week later. Then I treated my system for bacteria with h202. Then treated with inoculant after h202 dissipated. 3 days later there are new tiny roots showing. 3 days later there are more roots but just really starting to grow.

I would assume that now I could get away with raising the output but I really question if I could of earlier?

heisen · Aug 29, 2018

Yeah I think that's normal unless they absolutely had no roots.the increased light would help them build faster roots.i would up the lighting to at least 15k on the lux meter.
@Dustjesus had issues and I walked him through alot of shit to get him straighten out.

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

Not only did they have no roots but what roots they had looked dead and nasty. I should have removed them all and started over but I was scared to remove roots, even dead ones.

Not sure if its bull or not but I've also read a lot of horror stories taking clones from dirt to hydro. I'm sure it's just an excuse but I could see there being issues if not cleaned thoroughly and even still.

heisen · Aug 29, 2018

Shawnery said:
Not only did they have no roots but what roots they had looked dead and nasty. I should have removed them all and started over but I was scared to remove roots, even dead ones.

Not sure if its bull or not but I've also read a lot of horror stories taking clones from dirt to hydro. I'm sure it's just an excuse but I could see there being issues if not cleaned thoroughly and even still.

I've done it a few times without issue.

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

So I've turned up the light to 50% which should be right around 20k.

Let's say they react by wilting again, how long should I allow them to wilt for before backing off the intensity, if it happens?

Shawnery · Aug 29, 2018

My epi smells like clean dirt which I understand is a sign of beneficial bacteria and the sour smell is from bad bacteria.

When my roots looked the worse it smelled like a fish tank but the smell has been changing daily in the right direction.

Undercurrent Blackberry Fire Day 1

Undercurrent Blackberry Fire Day 1

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