squarepusher
- 959
- 43
isn't 2" good enough to avoid clogs?
UCMENOW
- 1,095
- 83
The new UC13's comes with 3"......guess that's the new standard ;)
N
noone88
- 726
- 63
I saw the new 13 gallon 3" uniseal with 1 epicenter. It's definitely a well-made system and great for new and veteran growers. The only things I would change are:
- 950 gph pump for 10+ tubs. I would definitely increase that, especially with the new piping layout with the epicenter, more on that later.
- Plumbing for people that run chillers can be hard/confusing for new people. I know that they want you to run the chiller inline with the pump that they send you. I would remove the airstone from the epicenter and let people drop in their own pump for their chiller.
- Design a XOXOX layout with 40" center. Shouldn't be a hard thing for you guys to do.
The new epicenter uses one 3" uniseal which then is piped to a 4 way pvc connecter to feed the 3 rows. Only issue is that the center row will receive more water flow than the side rows because you're not using a manifold to evenly divide the water flow.
Lastly, they use a Y connector to connect the return feeds to the inline pump.
If you guys can make a 20 gallon modules (that's wider), i'll definitely pick one up for myself. Overall, a great system. I was very impressed.
- 950 gph pump for 10+ tubs. I would definitely increase that, especially with the new piping layout with the epicenter, more on that later.
- Plumbing for people that run chillers can be hard/confusing for new people. I know that they want you to run the chiller inline with the pump that they send you. I would remove the airstone from the epicenter and let people drop in their own pump for their chiller.
- Design a XOXOX layout with 40" center. Shouldn't be a hard thing for you guys to do.
The new epicenter uses one 3" uniseal which then is piped to a 4 way pvc connecter to feed the 3 rows. Only issue is that the center row will receive more water flow than the side rows because you're not using a manifold to evenly divide the water flow.
Lastly, they use a Y connector to connect the return feeds to the inline pump.
If you guys can make a 20 gallon modules (that's wider), i'll definitely pick one up for myself. Overall, a great system. I was very impressed.
R
RMCG
- 2,050
- 48
Definitely allow upsizing the inline pump to allow it to go to various sizes of chillers (more/less flow rate). Pumps in the res add a few degrees, further necessitating the need for a chiller.
Chillers themselves add ~6' of head to the pump reqs, not sure what the actual flow rate of the UC is.
I have a test veg system(non UC) that has a 300GPH pump and it raised the 10g res temps nearly 10 degrees!
I would rather have 1+ degree added to the air.
Chillers themselves add ~6' of head to the pump reqs, not sure what the actual flow rate of the UC is.
I have a test veg system(non UC) that has a 300GPH pump and it raised the 10g res temps nearly 10 degrees!
I would rather have 1+ degree added to the air.
UCMENOW
- 1,095
- 83
Greetings from UC HQ
Thought I'd thread jack / Avatar jack(UCMENOW) for a moment and address noone88's comments myself..
First off I'd (Daniel) like to thank everyone who's purchased and or DIY'd our systems....it's good to see so many growers having success with something we've worked long and hard to develop....very proud to be contributing to the MJ movement.
"950 gph pump for 10+ tubs. I would definitely increase that, especially with the new piping layout with the epicenter"
We've experimented for close to 8 years with the Sub Current technique and have found there to be certain parameters for flow rates that tend to work best.....with our new configurations we've located the return pump directly next to the epicenter which reduces head pressure to a minimum....our UC Evolution 12XXL is sized with a 950 pump due to observations made in house.....with the reduced head we found the 1200 gph to cause excessive over splash in the return module.
Most pump applications on other systems lead into tubing with many feet of head which lends to greatly diminished flow....our application looks to maximize efficiency and reduce the need for larger, more energy consumptive pumps.
"Plumbing for people that run chillers can be hard/confusing for new people. I know that they want you to run the chiller inline with the pump that they send you. I would remove the airstone from the epicenter and let people drop in their own pump for their chiller"
Depending on the application it may be necessary to implement an in-line booster pump if the proximity of the chiller is more than a few feet away....in this case an alternate pump does not need to be rested in the solution but can be run externally which has many obvious advantages....it's also possible to just upgrade our pump upon purchse if you know it to be needed for your app.....with that said I feel the best chiller apps to be using a stainless steel heat exchanging coil dropped in the Epi, this app requires no exchange of nutrient solution from the system, to the chiller and back to the system....for more info on heat exchanging coils check with Hydro Innovations, these guys are the pros when it comes to dealing with heat in your grow spaces.
"Design a XOXOX layout with 40" center. Shouldn't be a hard thing for you guys to do."
It's on the way brother....we see a need for it and will be officially releasing that series very soon.....with sooo many configurations we offer already I'm challenged to be sure we're not offering something that's not dialed in yet, looking forward to dropping that design soon for those of you that need it....thanks for bringing that up.
"The new epicenter uses one 3" uniseal which then is piped to a 4 way pvc connecter to feed the 3 rows. Only issue is that the center row will receive more water flow than the side rows because you're not using a manifold to evenly divide the water flow"
We scrutinized over this issue and I can say with confidence there is equal flow in all 3 rows. The movement of the nutrient solution is dictated by simple physics......because the return manifold is negatively pressurized all 3 rows receive equal draw, once returned to the Epi the nutes are drawn back into the system via negative displacement which continually equalizes the flow. If the flow coming from the Epi to the delivery manifold was positive there would likely be more flow in the center row, but thanks to the vacuum caused by negative pressure the flow equalizes due to the equal draw in each row....so when the solution hits the four way it actually is drawn laterally first before being drawn into the center row....this is all dictated by the fact that nutes are drawn equally from each row through the end manifold.....what a long winded explanation :)
Basically we used dyes to track the flow and made observations that allowed us to dial in what we know to be a reliable way to circulate nutrients and create a homogeneous solution.
"Lastly, they use a Y connector to connect the return feeds to the inline pump."
The 3/4" y allows for equal draw from the 2 valves in the return manifold....if this was a T fitting we would feel less confident in the application...again we get OCD on these things so you don't have to ;)
"If you guys can make a 20 gallon modules (that's wider), i'll definitely pick one up for myself."
Give the 13's a try....the added depth of the 13 gallon module allows for plenty of prolific growth....I'm not saying we won't be going larger in the future, but I contend you'd be pleased with the performance of the 13's.....just look at what Jack's doin with the 8's.
"Overall, a great system. I was very impressed."
Thank you very much brother, we take pride in what we build.....and we will continue to improve on our designs to make them more user friendly and higher yielding.
Feel free to give me a call with any criticisms, questions, suggestions or complements
(I like those too)....and thanks again for the support of our company, we plan on being a part of the Herb community for decades to come.
I'd like to send a shout out to DD....I really dig your MPB's, keep on rocking it brother.
Daniel
Thought I'd thread jack / Avatar jack(UCMENOW) for a moment and address noone88's comments myself..
First off I'd (Daniel) like to thank everyone who's purchased and or DIY'd our systems....it's good to see so many growers having success with something we've worked long and hard to develop....very proud to be contributing to the MJ movement.
"950 gph pump for 10+ tubs. I would definitely increase that, especially with the new piping layout with the epicenter"
We've experimented for close to 8 years with the Sub Current technique and have found there to be certain parameters for flow rates that tend to work best.....with our new configurations we've located the return pump directly next to the epicenter which reduces head pressure to a minimum....our UC Evolution 12XXL is sized with a 950 pump due to observations made in house.....with the reduced head we found the 1200 gph to cause excessive over splash in the return module.
Most pump applications on other systems lead into tubing with many feet of head which lends to greatly diminished flow....our application looks to maximize efficiency and reduce the need for larger, more energy consumptive pumps.
"Plumbing for people that run chillers can be hard/confusing for new people. I know that they want you to run the chiller inline with the pump that they send you. I would remove the airstone from the epicenter and let people drop in their own pump for their chiller"
Depending on the application it may be necessary to implement an in-line booster pump if the proximity of the chiller is more than a few feet away....in this case an alternate pump does not need to be rested in the solution but can be run externally which has many obvious advantages....it's also possible to just upgrade our pump upon purchse if you know it to be needed for your app.....with that said I feel the best chiller apps to be using a stainless steel heat exchanging coil dropped in the Epi, this app requires no exchange of nutrient solution from the system, to the chiller and back to the system....for more info on heat exchanging coils check with Hydro Innovations, these guys are the pros when it comes to dealing with heat in your grow spaces.
"Design a XOXOX layout with 40" center. Shouldn't be a hard thing for you guys to do."
It's on the way brother....we see a need for it and will be officially releasing that series very soon.....with sooo many configurations we offer already I'm challenged to be sure we're not offering something that's not dialed in yet, looking forward to dropping that design soon for those of you that need it....thanks for bringing that up.
"The new epicenter uses one 3" uniseal which then is piped to a 4 way pvc connecter to feed the 3 rows. Only issue is that the center row will receive more water flow than the side rows because you're not using a manifold to evenly divide the water flow"
We scrutinized over this issue and I can say with confidence there is equal flow in all 3 rows. The movement of the nutrient solution is dictated by simple physics......because the return manifold is negatively pressurized all 3 rows receive equal draw, once returned to the Epi the nutes are drawn back into the system via negative displacement which continually equalizes the flow. If the flow coming from the Epi to the delivery manifold was positive there would likely be more flow in the center row, but thanks to the vacuum caused by negative pressure the flow equalizes due to the equal draw in each row....so when the solution hits the four way it actually is drawn laterally first before being drawn into the center row....this is all dictated by the fact that nutes are drawn equally from each row through the end manifold.....what a long winded explanation :)
Basically we used dyes to track the flow and made observations that allowed us to dial in what we know to be a reliable way to circulate nutrients and create a homogeneous solution.
"Lastly, they use a Y connector to connect the return feeds to the inline pump."
The 3/4" y allows for equal draw from the 2 valves in the return manifold....if this was a T fitting we would feel less confident in the application...again we get OCD on these things so you don't have to ;)
"If you guys can make a 20 gallon modules (that's wider), i'll definitely pick one up for myself."
Give the 13's a try....the added depth of the 13 gallon module allows for plenty of prolific growth....I'm not saying we won't be going larger in the future, but I contend you'd be pleased with the performance of the 13's.....just look at what Jack's doin with the 8's.
"Overall, a great system. I was very impressed."
Thank you very much brother, we take pride in what we build.....and we will continue to improve on our designs to make them more user friendly and higher yielding.
Feel free to give me a call with any criticisms, questions, suggestions or complements
(I like those too)....and thanks again for the support of our company, we plan on being a part of the Herb community for decades to come.
I'd like to send a shout out to DD....I really dig your MPB's, keep on rocking it brother.
Daniel
N
noone88
- 726
- 63
Hey Daniel, I had a feeling it was you posting behind the the screenname.
Your system is great as a prepackaged system and i'm a pretty harsh critic on things. The only thing that was preventing me from getting your system was that from veg to flower, it revolved around the 5 gallon lid/netcup combo and your previous lids wouldnt have accommodated it. Your new one-piece lid is well made.
I guess it just came down to the timing of it all; when I needed to build my systems, you guys hadn't yet implemented any of the features I needed, such as remote-locating res, XOXOX configuration, 40" centers, etc. Plus the lead time needed for you guys to build the system versus something I needed immediately is basically a scheduling conflict.
Re: the splash from using a higher gph pump; I really don't think that it's an issue considering you have the lid over the epicenter. I'm dumping 1800 gph into my control bucket and there is still minimal water loss. I know it's a cost issue by using a 950 versus a 1200 or 1800, but you have to agree that more water flow through the modules can do nothing but help the system.
Re: 13 gallon buckets; the reason why i'm trying to get you to guys find/source/pay for a mold ($$$) of a larger/wider bucket is because of my observations from using the 27 gallon tubs. When my plants get to about 5-6 feet, the roots actually sit at the bottom of the tub forming a blanket. The increased surface area of a 30x20 does seem to help with overall nutrient and oxygen intake. Increasing the vertical height of the tub is a start, but i've seen 1 foot tall clones with 2 feet long roots. As for Jack, besides the fact that he has everything else dialed in and growing proven strains, he vegged them big before flowering.
I know feedback is critical to you guys and everyone wants certain tweaks, which is why some of us tend to build our own. If you can do the XOXOX layout with 40" centers, i'm definitely in. You guys have been great to the MMJ community!
Your system is great as a prepackaged system and i'm a pretty harsh critic on things. The only thing that was preventing me from getting your system was that from veg to flower, it revolved around the 5 gallon lid/netcup combo and your previous lids wouldnt have accommodated it. Your new one-piece lid is well made.
I guess it just came down to the timing of it all; when I needed to build my systems, you guys hadn't yet implemented any of the features I needed, such as remote-locating res, XOXOX configuration, 40" centers, etc. Plus the lead time needed for you guys to build the system versus something I needed immediately is basically a scheduling conflict.
Re: the splash from using a higher gph pump; I really don't think that it's an issue considering you have the lid over the epicenter. I'm dumping 1800 gph into my control bucket and there is still minimal water loss. I know it's a cost issue by using a 950 versus a 1200 or 1800, but you have to agree that more water flow through the modules can do nothing but help the system.
Re: 13 gallon buckets; the reason why i'm trying to get you to guys find/source/pay for a mold ($$$) of a larger/wider bucket is because of my observations from using the 27 gallon tubs. When my plants get to about 5-6 feet, the roots actually sit at the bottom of the tub forming a blanket. The increased surface area of a 30x20 does seem to help with overall nutrient and oxygen intake. Increasing the vertical height of the tub is a start, but i've seen 1 foot tall clones with 2 feet long roots. As for Jack, besides the fact that he has everything else dialed in and growing proven strains, he vegged them big before flowering.
I know feedback is critical to you guys and everyone wants certain tweaks, which is why some of us tend to build our own. If you can do the XOXOX layout with 40" centers, i'm definitely in. You guys have been great to the MMJ community!
UCMENOW
- 1,095
- 83
Uc hq
House setting for UCMENOW right now so I couldn't resist getting on his computer and chiming in.
As far as the return pump goes I'd just say if we observed increased performance in our system we wouldn't hesitate to spend more on the larger pump....all I can say is that based on years of experiments that we view the circulatory pump as a means to keep the system well mixed and the air infusion as the primary means of driving plant growth....this might be different in other systems but in the UC, this is it. If improving our systems performance was as easy as an over sized pump we wouldn't hesitate to spend extra.
You can count on us offering larger modules in the future as I'd agree that more root space is always better.....looking forward to seeing the 13's results unfold and continuing to develop for larger apps. Eventually I'd like to offer 50+ gallon modules for green house applications.
We are striving to meet everyone's needs and eventually I'm knowing we will. Thanks again for the input and I look forward to seeing how your grow goes....I'm sure your gonna rock it.
BTW....I'm Daniel not UCMENOW, though a good friend of mine he can be a bit of a ass sometimes so I'd rather not be confused with him :)
Feel free to give me a call if you've got anymore input or have any questions....last day house setting so I won't be able to chime in again for a while.
House setting for UCMENOW right now so I couldn't resist getting on his computer and chiming in.
As far as the return pump goes I'd just say if we observed increased performance in our system we wouldn't hesitate to spend more on the larger pump....all I can say is that based on years of experiments that we view the circulatory pump as a means to keep the system well mixed and the air infusion as the primary means of driving plant growth....this might be different in other systems but in the UC, this is it. If improving our systems performance was as easy as an over sized pump we wouldn't hesitate to spend extra.
You can count on us offering larger modules in the future as I'd agree that more root space is always better.....looking forward to seeing the 13's results unfold and continuing to develop for larger apps. Eventually I'd like to offer 50+ gallon modules for green house applications.
We are striving to meet everyone's needs and eventually I'm knowing we will. Thanks again for the input and I look forward to seeing how your grow goes....I'm sure your gonna rock it.
BTW....I'm Daniel not UCMENOW, though a good friend of mine he can be a bit of a ass sometimes so I'd rather not be confused with him :)
Feel free to give me a call if you've got anymore input or have any questions....last day house setting so I won't be able to chime in again for a while.
C
Casper
- 94
- 18
Great thread, very imformative!
K
KING_KONG_KOLAS
Guest
o my.. them some big ass tubs!! Bad fuckin ass!!
Green Mopho
- 1,056
- 83
Bumping!
D
DrGoodMeds
- 41
- 6
What a great thread! Daniel, that is so cool that you can hop on a DIY rip off (although well put together) of your creation and give tips and advice. This is exactly why this website is so great and so valuable.
BTW, uniseals are easily worked if you use a hair dryer and some windex.
Good
BTW, uniseals are easily worked if you use a hair dryer and some windex.
Good
M
mtnlyin
- 15
- 1
Noone - great setup, the big totes are a great idea. Waiting to see how everything turns out. The UC has definitely got my interest and all of the different mods that are made by the DIY people are fantastic.
A special shout out to Daniel, you have got my respect for helping out folks like noone and Sky High on their projects with your product. WOW!
A special shout out to Daniel, you have got my respect for helping out folks like noone and Sky High on their projects with your product. WOW!
M
mrdizzle
- 1,895
- 48
what up what up what up what up, just seeing whats up
sedate
- 948
- 63
Maybe he finished the growroom.
He said he wasn't gonna post pics of plants.
A loss for us all . . .
He said he wasn't gonna post pics of plants.
A loss for us all . . .
M
mrdizzle
- 1,895
- 48
Im dying to see or hear how this turns out
N
noone88
- 726
- 63
Yea, I don't want to put up pictures of a full grow room. It's always been above my risk-tolerance.
Starting the cut down in a few days, going to make a few changes to the room. The room (not the UC) needs fine-tuning, especially in regards to the humidity. The room is sealed tight (40 lbs of LP lasted me 1 week of veg + 70 days of flower heh). I thought I could take care of my fungus gnat problem, but apparently they can smell vegetation a mile away. So i've begun cycling in pyrethrum in a fogger and neem oil right on the root mass, a long with sticky-traps, once a week during res changes. I don't think i'll ever get rid of the gnats, but I should be able to keep them under control. I've never grown trees before and I never had fungus gnat problems during flowering so this is definitely a learning experience every cycle.
The water chiller requirements for a UC system is considerably less than using MPB tubs. It's a huge difference when the tubs are sitting on concrete vs elevated in the air.
I was hoping to get away with only a 7 day veg time in the UC/MPB system, but it seems like yield is considerably higher when you veg in the DWC systems. I have a separate mother/veg area so I was hoping to keep my flowers room constantly going with little veg time, but it seems like a good 14 day veg in the DWC system is ideal before going 12/12.
Of course, this is all separate of the UC/MPB system. DWC and growing trees is a learning experience.
My first run in my MPB was .9gpw and has been increasing ever since. Certain strains will let me easily go 1.1gpw. However, my yield gets bumped up a lot due to my side buckets that get one side of light. Those fuckers yield 1/3 to 1/2P per bucket heh.
Starting the cut down in a few days, going to make a few changes to the room. The room (not the UC) needs fine-tuning, especially in regards to the humidity. The room is sealed tight (40 lbs of LP lasted me 1 week of veg + 70 days of flower heh). I thought I could take care of my fungus gnat problem, but apparently they can smell vegetation a mile away. So i've begun cycling in pyrethrum in a fogger and neem oil right on the root mass, a long with sticky-traps, once a week during res changes. I don't think i'll ever get rid of the gnats, but I should be able to keep them under control. I've never grown trees before and I never had fungus gnat problems during flowering so this is definitely a learning experience every cycle.
The water chiller requirements for a UC system is considerably less than using MPB tubs. It's a huge difference when the tubs are sitting on concrete vs elevated in the air.
I was hoping to get away with only a 7 day veg time in the UC/MPB system, but it seems like yield is considerably higher when you veg in the DWC systems. I have a separate mother/veg area so I was hoping to keep my flowers room constantly going with little veg time, but it seems like a good 14 day veg in the DWC system is ideal before going 12/12.
Of course, this is all separate of the UC/MPB system. DWC and growing trees is a learning experience.
My first run in my MPB was .9gpw and has been increasing ever since. Certain strains will let me easily go 1.1gpw. However, my yield gets bumped up a lot due to my side buckets that get one side of light. Those fuckers yield 1/3 to 1/2P per bucket heh.
M
mrdizzle
- 1,895
- 48
how is the comparison? are you saying you didnt veg the UC one as long as the MPB's? and it might cost you in the yeild.
How was the growth rate in the UC?
I'd be interested in switching designs on my one room because its a fucking pain to crawl over the pipes and shit and I wouldnt mind plants being on the floor either
How was the growth rate in the UC?
I'd be interested in switching designs on my one room because its a fucking pain to crawl over the pipes and shit and I wouldnt mind plants being on the floor either
N
noone88
- 726
- 63
Growth rate is the same, but my feeling is that you'll have root clogging issues which will lead to flow issues even with the 13 gallon UC system. You may not have a problem if you don't run a huge system like Jack; a 12-15 plant system with 13 gallon and 3" piping will be okay, but the bigger your trees are, the more root mass it will consume in the bucket. My tallest plant was a 6 foot tall Madman OG and when I pulled it out of the tub, I couldn't imagine the root mass fitting into an 8 gallon tub, much less a 13 gallon tub, without restricting water flow.
I've been making more of an effort in the transition from veg to flower and now i'm doing a 10-14 day week veg in the DWC system before flipping. This includes using MH bulbs and slowly changing the bulbs to all HPS, and as well as slowly going from 18/6 to 12/12. This has definitely removed any transplant and lumen shock. Previously, I transplanted, turned on 1/3 of the HPS lights for 18/6, and I experienced transplant and lumen shock.
I have a few grows DWC grows under my belt and i'm still fine-tuning a few things. Definitely a huge difference from flat gardens. I'm learning something new every cycle.
More to come later; i'll probably stop posting in this thread until I design my next grow room (Most likely a UC system in a Mammoth Tent). I just put some Cali Connection Alien OG's into flower so you guys will see flower and nug shots in a few months heh.
I've been making more of an effort in the transition from veg to flower and now i'm doing a 10-14 day week veg in the DWC system before flipping. This includes using MH bulbs and slowly changing the bulbs to all HPS, and as well as slowly going from 18/6 to 12/12. This has definitely removed any transplant and lumen shock. Previously, I transplanted, turned on 1/3 of the HPS lights for 18/6, and I experienced transplant and lumen shock.
I have a few grows DWC grows under my belt and i'm still fine-tuning a few things. Definitely a huge difference from flat gardens. I'm learning something new every cycle.
More to come later; i'll probably stop posting in this thread until I design my next grow room (Most likely a UC system in a Mammoth Tent). I just put some Cali Connection Alien OG's into flower so you guys will see flower and nug shots in a few months heh.
mikeross
- 444
- 43
setup looks cool... nice work.
I am in the process of building my room but think I am going to focus on my veg room, get the girls in and then proceed to finish my bloom room.
anyways, What is the best way to veg my plants out for a mpb setup. I am growing pk and it vegs slow... will doing a dwc really speed up the veg growth.
care to share you dwc veg setup... I assume you need a chiller 24/7 for this veg style.
I am in the process of building my room but think I am going to focus on my veg room, get the girls in and then proceed to finish my bloom room.
anyways, What is the best way to veg my plants out for a mpb setup. I am growing pk and it vegs slow... will doing a dwc really speed up the veg growth.
care to share you dwc veg setup... I assume you need a chiller 24/7 for this veg style.
R
RMCG
- 2,050
- 48
Honestly, I would veg in netpots on an E&F table.
I can only get ~1+ week of veg in before the roots start shooting out the sides of the netpot enough to where you cannot pull it back through the lid without shredding roots.
I think Lost had a cool bucket within a half bucket with a 5gal netpot lid set up.
You could use those and RDWC in 5 gal buckets to keep the root mass the same size. So you pull it out and slide them right into the MPB.
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