Upgrading a timer panel.

[st0ne]

Hello,

I have a four light timer panel that I bought years back. I am looking to upgrade it to a six light panel.

The timer is rated for fourty amps. It has a thirty amp drier cord feeding the timer. The timer then feeds two recepticals via pigtailing/splicing. There is no ground.

My idea was to upgrade the cord with some 8/3 I have laying around. My plug only has three places for wires, Hot/Hot/Ground, no neutral. I've read that this is no longer code, and yet it was in the past.

Inorder for me to follow suit, I would spice three sets of wire to the incoming 8 gauge, with a "bug nut", or a large wirenut. I can't see why it wouldn't work, and yet it doesn't seem like the safest solution. I've heard a lot of talk of high temperature shutoffs, individual breakers for each ballast, better connections etc.

I am short of money, and would like to know if this system is safe for the short term? Thoughts?

Another question,
I also have four used ballasts in storage. The enclosures on them don't vent very well. This has turned the wires brittle. I would like to use them again, except with more ventilation.
Is it true that the capacitors on ballasts go under extreme heat? I've read that they can lose effficiency. Do my ballasts need a rehaul?

I have photos,
Thanks!

.

 

[Loudblunts]

correct me if im wrong, but i blv you dont have a neutral because it is 220/240 seeing as though you said dryer plug and how many amps you put


a+b = 220/240v
a+ neutral = 110/120v
b+ neutral = 110/120v

or am i all off base here and totally off your question?

 

[Loudblunts]

http://www.diguniverse.com/APPLIANCE-ACCESSORIES/APPLIANCE--ACCESSORIES/PET90-1060QC.html

wouldnt something like this be cheaper for you? and then just buy and wire in another outlet?


to be honest, i would prolly just get/build me something new.... i may be wrong and im not electrician...however something looks wrong there.

as you say, i see NO ground what so ever on that...

 

[st0ne]

Regarding the cord, the current 30 amp cord has four wires, where my fifty amp plug only has space for three. My 8/3 wire has four wires. I'm thinking of using the 50 amp, and forgoing the neutral.

The plug is grounded, it just seems that the recepticles are not. It is fairly easy to pigtail some grounds onto them. My question moreso concerns whether it is safe to pigtail four wires together. Or is there a better alternative? I'm switching a 30 amp, four light timer, into a fourty amp, six light timer. I plan to run this off a fifty amp stove recepticle. I'm fairly confident this is safe, although I'm sure there are better/safer options. Just interested in peoples thoughts. Always fearful of fires!

 

[Loudblunts]

wait, what???!?!!!

forgoing the neutral?

have you ever wired something up before?

lol take a step back from the electricity.... view those a A & B = examples in my previous post

in order to use 220/240v you must forgo the neutral.... as 220/240 is 110 + 110 feeding you two (2) hots plus a ground giving you 220/240

and yea, sure the plug is grounded, but your recepticles are not...very dangerous and needs to be fixed.

Yes you can 'pigtail' wires together, but you need to make sure that if you are going to use wirenuts that you buy the right ones, as they are rated.


also so i dont insult you or anything.... the pics that you have shown... is that work that you have done? or is that how the unit came without you touching anything?

more questions, you do realize you are bringing in 240volts and you are connecting it to 125v 15a outlets, right?

This is why if i asked if it was you that did this or if it was shipped like this.

because i dont know if you did that and just used the white/neutral wire as a hot wire on 220 and used a regular 110v outlet

what is the voltage of your ballast?


also that first picture with the black cord... 3 wire and a ground..... what is that? did you do this?

 

[st0ne]

Hi Lordblunts,

I appreciate the help my friend, and I take no offense.

I bought this timer panel from a hydrostore, where they wired it. It is a 30 amp, 240 volt, four light panel.

The first picture is the 30 amp dryer cord entering the intermatic timer. It is connected to the input terminals, and the smaller ten gauge wires feed off of the load terminals. These load wires then go into the junction box, where they are pigtailed to two 110 volt recepticles. My ballasts are also 240, and yet are wired with a 110 plug.

I'm thinking of changing the 30 amp cord to an 8 gauge wire, with a 50 amp plug on the end. I will feed this into the 40 amp intermatic timer, where I will upgrade the 10 gauge load wires to.. 8 gauge, and pigtail, or a "bug nut", the 8 gauge load wire to three sets of 14+/- gauge wires, which will feed three recepticles.

Hehe,
Confusing eh?

I'm by no means an electrician, but I do know my way around most things related to construction! I can't see why this wouldn't work, as I am basically upgrading what is already here. The pictures show how the panel was wired from the store. Even still, I know there are better/safer options.

 

[sirsmokealot]

I use the same intermatic timers in my room. What I do instead of wiring a bunch of outlets to the timer is cut of the end of the ballast cords that would plug into the outlet, and hardwire those to the timer, then just plug the other end of the cord to the ballasts. I hope that makes sense. right now i'm running 6 1K's off 1 timer that's being feed with 10/3 and have had no issues for over a year. I can try and take a picture if you need it.

 

[Midnight_son]

Hey stOne, What you have there will work fine. Iv'e Been using the same setup for years with no issues. I would change that 14ga, to 12 ga. though, and go with 20amp outlets.
No need to cut the ballast cords, as they are probably convertable. If you take the cover off one of your ballasts, you will probably find you can use 110 or 220 just by swapping one wire which is clearly marked. This is what allows you to use that 110v plug on your ballast with 220v.:icon_spin:

 

[Loudblunts]

ooooooooo yay more info!!!

well now that i know you didnt do the work friend.... i can insult mwhahahahaha sike nah

but on a more serious tip... I, like you am no electrician, but im around it alot (got a couple of bros (friends) who ARE electricians...im the computer geek with side talents...lol)

anywho...I have no problem with wire hacks because quite frankly i call myself a hack cuz i dont wanna insult the real deal electricians and neither will my bro's allow me...haha no matter how good i think i am.

However thas neither here nor there.... my problem is that you should never go back to that hydroponics store again.....lol...no seriously if you do, just dont buy anything electrical from them...lol

When we hack up our own shit, at least we know what the fuck is what and not expected to guess. But with prebought shit like that from a store, i tend to err on the 'be more professional and standard' side....


anywho, here's the dealie

found out some information for you about that dryer plug and why a 220/240v plug has a neutral in it:

from what i was told... the neutral isnt needed in this situation.... the reason why they still wire in a neutral in those plugs because apparently 'for god knows what reason' lol they seperate the two parts inside...so some on 110 (the reason/need for neutral) and the other on 220. And then you have the difference of the 3 prong and 4 prong newer plugs i think? iono dont quote me, this is just coming from what i was told


so yea i would ignore the neutral.... In fact, i wouldnt go with any 3 wire, i'd go 2 wire so you dont confuse yourself.

so Sirsmokealot is right, you should be good with 10/2 since your ballast are already 220/240v and 1k watters are 5amps or less 5x6 is 30...so clearly that 8 guage will work for you

and since your ballast are 240 but wired with 110 plug style ends.... just go ahead and get you another outlet.

i would wire those outlets a bit better though... meaning one lead on each side.... i would also put a ground in there too.... of course, safer

also for future reference if a wire is white that is being used as hot...it might be a good idea to wrap a piece of black tape around it indicating that it is hot


sorry about the run around... good thing we now know. Sirsmokealot & Midnight_son are pretty spot on!!!

 

[st0ne]

10/2 might be ok for six lights, but what about the 80% rule?

What you're saying is, instead of running recepticles, just clamp the wires directly into the load side of the timer. Some three wires for each clamp.

I can see this working, other than one losing the versatility of being able to pick and choose lights.

I have a digital intermatic kicking around. Anyone have any experience working with these? The wiring seems a little different from the mechanical ones.

I appreciate the helpful advice my friends,
Cheers!

 

[sirsmokealot]

I Install a lot of washer and dryers with my pops and the reason a dryer cord would have a neutral is because the timer, and probably the buzzer run off of 110 and the heating element part of the dryer runs off of 220. So instead of the dryer having two plugs they just add a neutral to the 220 plug.

 

[Loudblunts]

we just said the same thing :P i just left out heating element part :P

right on plus rep to you