using solar panels in grow rooms

[ttystikk]

One company makes a 230 watt residential panel and it measures approx. 3.5' x 5'. Integration is a problem retrofitting traditional panels on a structure in terms of ascetics. The panels need a couple inches of airflow under them to keep them cool. Heat = less production for solar PV. If you have roof space that faces S/SW in your back or side yard, it's not a big problem, people typically just don't want to see them on the front of their homes.

You can buy "integrated" solar panels that blend into your roof and look like shiny tiles. These are the most ascetically pleasing, but least efficient and most expensive.

The bottom line is; How fast can I pay off my solar system with the money I will save from producing power with solar? The answer; Chinese panels, *traditional inverters, and only supplementing the high tier energy you purchase with solar. With this suggestion you can payoff your solar system with energy utility savings in around 5 years. Most inverters are waranteed for 10-15 years, and panels for 25 years. A typical return on investment on a solar PV system is as high as 20%+. In my area we pay on average 30 cents per kilowatt hour (all tiers averaged). I produce one kilowatt hour with solar for around 11 cents.

* Inverters convert the direct current electricity coming from the panels to AC. You will have an approx. 20% loss in the conversion from DC to AC. A traditional inverter will allow several panels to be wired into it in series. IE; 10 panels wired into 1 inverter. Micro inverters are newer technology. They mount under each panel, IE; 10 panels 10 small inverters. Micro inverters have their strengths but are more expensive.
Cheers
BirdDog

My idea is to utilize up to 100 of the same solar panel, and integrate them into the design and architecture of the house from the very beginning so it looks like the panels were meant to be there- because they were! This would make for a ridiculously big house, so these panels would also integrate the look of everything on the property; one over the mailbox, covering the carport, several over a gazebo, more over the shop, the kid's playhouse, the lawn n garden equipment shed... and I wasn't kidding about one over the doghouse, lol. Build the house in layers with setbacks, like a cake, and place panels on every layer- the setback still allows for windows, decks and balconies and the panels make the house look futuristic.

Sell the excess power to the utility, and buy all electric appliances, from baseboard heaters to lawnmowers and home landscaping equipment and especially electric- or at least series hybrid- cars. The money saved on utilities is nice, but the money saved by not buying gasoline will amortize solar panels in a big hurry! They even have electric motorcyles on the market, and some of them in racing are already fast enough to give internal combustion bikes a serious run for the checkered flag. Imagine what they'll have in 20 years?

Heat the house w/ passive solar and power from the panels, cool it in summer with swamp coolers and water chillers, again powered by the panels. I would have a natural gas line into the property to run my gas grill, the stove and dryer- these need lots of heat, which is easier for gas to provide- and for the eventual possibility of residential fuel cells. Ballard Power Systems, Inc. already makes units that are designed for residential use, they just won't sell them in the states yet.

The future is here, it's time to step up your game.

 

[mastergreen]

Did I say he was lying? I just said it would be more iffiecent on the roof. And you can just hook up a panel it doesn't work like that Edison can see the change in power from your meeder and fine you thousands. Plus I wouldn't want my 500 dollar panels where they could be broken on accident . That's just me good luck farmer

 

[squiggly]

Sell the excess power to the utility, and buy all electric appliances, from baseboard heaters to lawnmowers and home landscaping equipment and especially electric- or at least series hybrid- cars. The money saved on utilities is nice, but the money saved by not buying gasoline will amortize solar panels in a big hurry! They even have electric motorcyles on the market, and some of them in racing are already fast enough to give internal combustion bikes a serious run for the checkered flag. Imagine what they'll have in 20 years?

Generally speaking, electric motors are the fastest motors (by a lot) and they are considerably more efficient. The problem (as I understand it, engineer's chime in if I'm stupid), is one of scaling this up--and it rests in a difference between power of the two engines and what type of heat stresses that places on the motor at the car size in electrical engines scaled to the car/truck. The more power you need the hotter that electric engine gets (and you'll need more current), so there are some speed limits the heavier they become.

Motorcycles are in the sweet spot weight wise, I think there's no question you will see a VERY fast one soon--and in terms of acceleration, it will probably shit all over a combustion engine. Cars and trucks will eventually catch up as well, as materials and engine designs improve.

Please take most of the above with a grain of salt, I am not speaking with any kind of authority here--this is simply my understanding, which is cursory at best.

 

[purpleberry]

The only problem with electric motors in cars is the batteries, They cost to much and dont last long enough. If that problem was fixed we would all be driving electric cars.

 

[ttystikk]

Generally speaking, electric motors are the fastest motors (by a lot) and they are considerably more efficient. The problem (as I understand it, engineer's chime in if I'm stupid), is one of scaling this up--and it rests in a difference between power of the two engines and what type of heat stresses that places on the motor at the car size in electrical engines scaled to the car/truck. The more power you need the hotter that electric engine gets (and you'll need more current), so there are some speed limits the heavier they become.

Motorcycles are in the sweet spot weight wise, I think there's no question you will see a VERY fast one soon--and in terms of acceleration, it will probably shit all over a combustion engine. Cars and trucks will eventually catch up as well, as materials and engine designs improve.

Please take most of the above with a grain of salt, I am not speaking with any kind of authority here--this is simply my understanding, which is cursory at best.

As an armchair engineer, I'll speak up here; purpleberry speaks Gospel when it comes to electrical motive power; it's never been about the motors, it's always been about the lack of compact electrical storage, in other words, batteries. The motors themselves are so efficient, they create far less heat and therefore need far LESS cooling than chemically powered motors do. The cooling they do need is easy to do, and it's done on a regualr basis.

Electric motorcycles are in a 'sweet spot' regarding this, as they can carry a larger percentage of their overall weight as battery than a car can.

There are a few long range electrics making it onto the market, but they are currently impractically expensive. My point in the earlier post was that if we can get the cost of electricity to run the car to replace the cost of gasoline or diesel, we come out well ahead, on a personal level and as a country overall. Demark, for example, is doing just as I've described, only with wind power...

 

[grayhairs]

how quickly we get of the topic and start answering our own questions.... nice to see a community thread that doesnt desintegrate into the stumbling and aggressive abuse of miscommunication.... nice one. Im going back to the original question.... If im looking at a 4kw system designed for houses, costing around 10 000 u.s. Will this power 3 1 kw lights and and aircon and associate necessities. I understand economically it is better to push the juice back into the grid and reverse your power bills but im more interested in going completely off the grid... Say a fourty foot container set up out in the bush.... Is this possible or am i just pulling my one eyed trouser snake? Does a 4kw solar panel kit output a total of 4 kw constantly or does it refer to how much can be stored and access in total.

 

[PButter]

how quickly we get of the topic and start answering our own questions.... nice to see a community thread that doesnt desintegrate into the stumbling and aggressive abuse of miscommunication.... nice one. Im going back to the original question.... If im looking at a 4kw system designed for houses, costing around 10 000 u.s. Will this power 3 1 kw lights and and aircon and associate necessities. I understand economically it is better to push the juice back into the grid and reverse your power bills but im more interested in going completely off the grid... Say a fourty foot container set up out in the bush.... Is this possible or am i just pulling my one eyed trouser snake? Does a 4kw solar panel kit output a total of 4 kw constantly or does it refer to how much can be stored and access in total.

For almost any size grow you would need quite a large battery bank($15-20K and up) if going strictly off-grid with your solar array. If you have a dream container grow, throw up a list of your loads and I bet we can come up with a good combination of off grid solar and backup generator that would get the job done. The problem I have come across is that the money just doesn't make sense for the end result unless you are really wanting it that bad.
For example I ran some numbers on doing an off grid container a year ago or so(panel prices have dropped a little since then but really hardly come into play when you have a battery bank and big off-grid inverters,,,) 12K lights split between veg and flower plus all the other fans and this and that- I came up with a solar array, backup generator and battery bank that on paper would never let the batteries go dead and for just the power system I needed just under $50000. It all would eventually pay for itself but not all that quickly... I think in the end I determined that using a big generator and big diesel fuel tank(no battery bank) would be more cost effective out to about the three year mark. A battery bank added to this would be almost pointless in the end as 12k light have a very special way of draining anything but the largest of battery banks very quickly..

I hope this helps- PB

 

[cannabeans]

Motorcycles are in the sweet spot weight wise, I think there's no question you will see a VERY fast one soon--and in terms of acceleration

I have been looking into these electric motorbikes for about 5 years. They keep getting better and better every model the make.....and made in America. I think the price is practical, especially for city dwellers.
http://www.brammo.com/home/

 

[cannabeans]

Here is the FAST one you were refering to....Built in 2007

 

[Reebs]

pretty sure i've heard a story about some growers in Oregon that have so many solar panels they not only succeed there own house and grow rooms electricity but actually puts some power back into the grid and the state or county cut him a $15 check every month

 

[ttystikk]

Utilizing the power company as your battery means you get paid- or at least offset- for 100% of the excess power generated at any given moment. Using batteries drops your recovery efficiency to just 60-70%. This fact alone makes being connected to the grid worthwhile.

Power companies are likely to push for even better incentives for customers to install excess solar power over their immediate needs and sell it back to them; when the sun is shining, power consumption spikes, especially in the summer due to people being up during the daytime and AC usage as temperature climbs. The more solar panel generation there is, the more that power spike is offset which means they don't need to build additional generation capacity (more power plants) to meet that peak demand.

 

[CrazyCatz72]

I also work with residential wind generation products but they only work between 9-35 mhp winds so they are usually not ideal when compared to solar. A 300w wind turbine is around $5-7k while 300 watts of solar PV (photo-voltaic, or electric) is around $1,500.

One company makes a 230 watt residential panel and it measures approx. 3.5' x 5'. Integration is a problem retrofitting traditional panels on a structure in terms of ascetics. The panels need a couple inches of airflow under them to keep them cool. Heat = less production for solar PV. If you have roof space that faces S/SW in your back or side yard, it's not a big problem, people typically just don't want to see them on the front of their homes.

You can buy "integrated" solar panels that blend into your roof and look like shiny tiles. These are the most ascetically pleasing, but least efficient and most expensive.

The bottom line is; How fast can I pay off my solar system with the money I will save from producing power with solar? The answer; Chinese panels, *traditional inverters, and only supplementing the high tier energy you purchase with solar. With this suggestion you can payoff your solar system with energy utility savings in around 5 years. Most inverters are waranteed for 10-15 years, and panels for 25 years. A typical return on investment on a solar PV system is as high as 20%+. In my area we pay on average 30 cents per kilowatt hour (all tiers averaged). I produce one kilowatt hour with solar for around 11 cents.

* Inverters convert the direct current electricity coming from the panels to AC. You will have an approx. 20% loss in the conversion from DC to AC. A traditional inverter will allow several panels to be wired into it in series. IE; 10 panels wired into 1 inverter. Micro inverters are newer technology. They mount under each panel, IE; 10 panels 10 small inverters. Micro inverters have their strengths but are more expensive.

I can further break down utlitly rates and tiers if anyone is interested.

Cheers
BirdDog

Great Info! been looking into this more and more..Only got a 250w Hps Setup and 200w CFL(Dual) Setup..but the cost of Electric in the UK is getting?(IS)a Joke..seeing your post is the reason I just joined site..very happy to have stumbled across this Thread.

Been looking on FleaBay the price for 1000w kit? is very tempting, even on a budget seems worth looking into.
Regards
CaTz

 

[Seamaiden]

Utilizing the power company as your battery means you get paid- or at least offset- for 100% of the excess power generated at any given moment. Using batteries drops your recovery efficiency to just 60-70%. This fact alone makes being connected to the grid worthwhile.

Power companies are likely to push for even better incentives for customers to install excess solar power over their immediate needs and sell it back to them; when the sun is shining, power consumption spikes, especially in the summer due to people being up during the daytime and AC usage as temperature climbs. The more solar panel generation there is, the more that power spike is offset which means they don't need to build additional generation capacity (more power plants) to meet that peak demand.

I need to link an article. Out here the utilities are SCREAMING because all these folks going solar have cut into their profits. After being hit with a large bill this summer despite generating 12kw/day, we're discussing pulling off the grid and going with battery banks.

Fuck PG&E. They harsh my mellow!

 

[ttystikk]

I need to link an article. Out here the utilities are SCREAMING because all these folks going solar have cut into their profits. After being hit with a large bill this summer despite generating 12kw/day, we're discussing pulling off the grid and going with battery banks.

Fuck PG&E. They harsh my mellow!

Now, that's funny! PG & E getting all grumpy with the tree huggers because their silly little solar panels WORKED! Where did they say you owe them so much money? Are they properly accounting for your solar power offset? ...our, are they stealing your power- taking it without paying you? It's just as big a deal when they do it as when individuals do, right?

 

[CrazyCatz72]

hiya peeps, well I've been looking into Solar..even joined a Solar Panel Talk - here's one response to Question I asked about building my own Solar Power Setup.

What is required is dependent on
1- location
2- how long each day the lights are on
3- are the lights AC or low voltage like for a camper

Oh and I almost forgot that the electricity you will generate will cost about 5-10 times as much as buying it from the power company

I can't see how my Electric will cost 5-10x as much as buying it from a Power Company??

For me this is a Learning Project -
I intend to move from UK to Ireland in next couple years..and when it happens want to Harvest my own Electric, Crops and so on....wanna be Green :D and live a different kinda life for me and my Children...and 1 day my Grand Children..Pipe dream at the moment, but I'm making a Start, this last year grew for Ladies and got 40z(First time) and my Partner has grown..Sweet potstoes, Carrots, Tomatoes, Mint, Lettuce, Cabbage and Onions..now I'm looking into Solar/Wind/Water Power...Making your own compost? Starting a Worm Farm...all sorts of things...I Like learning anyway..


Oh and I grew up/worked on a Farm(64 acres) so kinda Not a City Boy anyway........

Peace

 

[Seamaiden]

Now, that's funny! PG & E getting all grumpy with the tree huggers because their silly little solar panels WORKED! Where did they say you owe them so much money? Are they properly accounting for your solar power offset? ...our, are they stealing your power- taking it without paying you? It's just as big a deal when they do it as when individuals do, right?

They don't pay us--EVER. For two years we had a positive net flow, think they sent us a dime? Oh HELL NO!

I forgot to link said article.

 

[ttystikk]

They don't pay us--EVER. For two years we had a positive net flow, think they sent us a dime? Oh HELL NO!

I forgot to link said article.

Then, politely threaten to sue them for taking your power without compensating you for it.

I read the article. It said they are supposed to pay you. What did I miss?

 

[Seamaiden]

Any real power the CPUC gives is to PG&E, not us. It's literally a few dollars a month. Unless I'm running my room, then that power is suddenly worth a whole lot more. I don't understand it, to be perfectly honest. When I see all the rows of numbers they run together, start undulating and fuck if I can make sense out of it.

 

[TimmyGilligan]

Im wondering if you can recycle electricity by having solar panels in your grow room. Like if the panels were under 1000w lights they could power a 400w veg room???

I was just thinking about this, searched, found this thread!

 

[GoblinSmasher]

I know its not what you asked for. But in the good tradition of this forum i will introduce a wild concept


Tidal wave power