Vending to dispensaries and 1099s

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TwoCreeks Redux

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Fellow Farmers,
I've spoken to several NorCal dispensaries in the last month or so that have told me that they will be starting to send 1099 forms to their vendors, some this year and some next year. If you are vending and receive a 1099 form, the government is going to expect federal income tax, (10-35%), self-employment tax (15%), and in California, State income tax (9%).
This year's income tax brackets are as follows:

Federal Income Tax Brackets For 2010 - Based On Taxable Income Ranges

Tax Rate
Married Couples Filing Jointly Most Single Filers

10% Not over $16,750 Not over $8,375
15% $16,750 – $68,000 $8,375 – $34,000
25% $68,000 – $137,300 $34,000 – $82,400
28% $137,300 – $209,250 $82,400 – $171,850
33% $209,250 – $373,650 $171,850 – $373,650
35% Over $373,650 Over $373,650

In my case, 25% Federal tax, 15% self-employment tax, and state tax (9%)
means that the government will claim 49% of any vending proceeds that come my way. Since vending is not a legally recognized business, there are no deductions allowed for business expenses, as I understand it.
If half goes to taxes, and expenses are what they are, and growing is very time consuming, what do you all think will transpire over the next year or so...?
 
S

smokestack23

438
18
Waitjustasecond there mister...lol
Don't forget...when you try to spend the 51% that you have left of your money you'll get taxed again. Here in my province in Canada it's only 5% more....UNLESS I buy gasoline, cigarettes, alcohol..then there's even MORE tax. Shit, in those provinces that have provincial sales tax, if you, for example buy a new dodge truck you pay fed tax of 5% plus provincial tax of let's say 7%. I know that there are a lot more taxes on a new vehicle than just the fed and prov sales taxes but for this example...
so then say 3 years later you sell it to me. Guess what...the gov gets paid AGAIN. Now two years later I sell it to my neighbor and yes...he pays tax on the same unit AGAIN...and he pays this tax out of what he had left from his paycheck AFTER taxes. FUCK ME!!!

And don't forget...your example showed like 35% tax payable in the bracket over $350K-ish...but...General Electric paid NO tax last year...in fact got a refund. I know I know..that has a lot to do with subsidies and shit but come ON.

From up here in Canada it seems as if Americans..republicans? don't want to tax the rich. Shit..back in "the good old days" (the 50s) when there were jobs and a person could save and buy a house and send their kids to school and retire before they're dead..DEBT FREE...as republicans refer to the good old days...the rich were taxed through the teeth and there were still jobs and R&D still progressed and big business still got rich.

Anyway...sorry..when I start to get on a tax rant I work myself into a high bloodpressure frenzy. completely unhealthy.
oooohhhhhmmmmm...oooohhhhmmmmmm
 
R

RMCG

2,050
48
Thank Obamacare for that...

They slid in a bill to help cover it by requiring EVERY transaction over $600 to have a 1099 associated with it.

Smokestack - Study American history and you will see that our times of ECONOMIC BOOMS are when taxes (for everyone, people, corps, etc) are LOW.

I think we (americans) can agree that we can spend our money much wiser then the government. Private industry beats them at every opportunity they are 'allowed' to play in.
 
ncga

ncga

249
63
TwoCreeks Redux

Well you need to think Like GE LOL

Start another support BIZ that is legit , use it for your expenses. I'm going to go out on a limb a bit bit I pay no where near the tax listed for my bracket. I tend to have lots of deductions. Travel , Capital improvements and the big one Mortgage deduction, Property tax , car registration....


Time to get a good bookkeeper and most important a GREAT CPA. you might not be able to take federal deduction But they are still good on the Cali tax form. Might be able to get by with a good schedule F for the feds.


I have a hard time believing people who run a biz paying 50% in taxes. There are some AMAZING deductions you take IF you have the money. That is the big Catch 22. For me the big one is a SEP/IRA ( inder 50 5k over 50 6K ) and a HSA ($3,050 for an individual and $6,150 for a family (HSA holders 55 and older get to save an extra $1,000 which means $4,050 for an individual and $7,150 for a family). Those R people just keep putting in Tax breaks. :lock: Did you know the gift tax amount is now around 13K per individual ?


Still time to make some shrewd moves before the 18th ( extra days this year)

nc
 
motherlode

motherlode

@Rolln_J
Supporter
5,524
313
1099 is for contracted work - not for product

if they want to 1099 you tell them to fuckoff
 
Blaze

Blaze

2,006
263
TStudy American history and you will see that our times of ECONOMIC BOOMS are when taxes (for everyone, people, corps, etc) are LOW.

I think you need to re-read your history. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well.

If you look at the last century of economic growth, lower taxes, especially for the ultra-rich has always resulted in slowed economic growth. You can see this pattern in every decade for the last century in virtually all the industrialized nations. Tax rates are certainly not the only factor in economic growth of course, but there really is no historical evidence to support the idea that low tax rates, especially for the rich, spurs economic growth.

Bush tried this exact strategy during his two terms and what happened? Did we have explosive economic growth? Or the worst recession in nearly a century?
 
R

RMCG

2,050
48
1099 is for contracted work - not for product

if they want to 1099 you tell them to fuckoff


Not anymore.


This goes into effect in 2012.

The provision calls for all businesses to file 1099 forms with the IRS for all transactions with other businesses over $600. This new requirement will force businesses to divert scarce resources to complying with additional bureaucratic red tape that they could better use creating new jobs.
The Wall Street Journal offers a telling example of just how burdensome the 1099 provision will be:
Think about a midsized trucking company. The back office would have to collect hundreds of thousands of receipts from every gas station where its drivers filled up and figure out where it spent more than $600 that year. Then it would also need to match those payments to the stations’ corporate parents.
Senator Bill Nelson (D–FL) offered the bill the Senate failed to pass today. The bill raises the $600 reporting threshold to $5,000 and exempts all businesses with fewer than 25 employees from the requirement.



This half-measure would not have undone all the damage the 1099 requirement will inflict on businesses and the economy. Congress should repeal the entire 1099 provision and should not raise other taxes to offset the cost.


The 1099 reporting requirement is based on flawed logic. Congress believes that the 1099 reporting requirement will compel businesses to report more income to the IRS because they will all of a sudden either recognize income they were not reporting before or feel it necessary to report income they were sheltering from taxation. More reporting will not bring in more revenue because Congress overestimates how much income businesses overlook or shelter from tax.


In reality, the 1099 reporting requirement will raise little, if any, revenue. It is phantom revenue that will likely never materialize, so attempting to offset it is unnecessary.
 
The Joker

The Joker

562
28
Berkeley is already doing it. I've been getting 1099's for 17 years. I've been getting jacked by CBCB for 8 months.

You are taxed on profits only. Profit = payment minus expenses. Your electrical bill, all your nutrients etc. If you are growing on your own property, what percent of the property is it? If it's 25% , you can deduct 25% of the cost of your mortgage or rent. What do you spend on gas to get to the dispensary or buy supplies? You can deduct that as well as the mileage on your vehicle.

I have an accountant and when he's done, I don't pay much tax. But you can't be a lazy stoner, you have to be able to keep records.

I organized my records and just made files. Job materials, utilities, fuel, tolls, car maintainance , rents etc. Every week , just put the reciepts in the different folders.
I use quickbooks and enter the info before I put it in the folders. it just gets tallied automatically.



They are also not asking for reciepts, so if your payment = your reciepts , you should be ok. It sucks, but I've had to do it for years.

When you are an employee, your employer pays matching taxes on SSI , UI etc. When you are self employed, you have to pay both ends, so it ends up to be around 40-45 % after your deductions.

Set up a landscaping business, pay 150 for a license and you are golden.
 
The Joker

The Joker

562
28
Thank Obamacare for that...

They slid in a bill to help cover it by requiring EVERY transaction over $600 to have a 1099 associated with it.

Smokestack - Study American history and you will see that our times of ECONOMIC BOOMS are when taxes (for everyone, people, corps, etc) are LOW.

I think we (americans) can agree that we can spend our money much wiser then the government. Private industry beats them at every opportunity they are 'allowed' to play in.



That's not just Obama, that's been in place for decades. I've been getting 1099'd for transactions over $500 since 1994. They actually raised it 100 bucks.

But you can also see that when corporations pay less tax, they put less money into the economy in the form of payroll. The pro wealthy, pro business policies have resulted in less money for schools and a greater gap between rich and poor. It only benefits the wealthiest who buy the politicians to write laws that benefit themselves.

I'm a capitalist and understand it's dog eat dog, I've never seen it work since Reagan espoused the ideas. It's great for the richest , but they don't invest it into the local economies like a worker with a paycheck does.It does not trickle down, it creates a plutocracy.
 
ncga

ncga

249
63
um yeah but its not 2012
:harvest:

Never better words said. I'm sure this will go down. The main reasons WAY to many get by without paying taxes because 1099 are not mandatory. The idea behind the 1099 was to do data matching. That way they make sure everybody reports income. Really would put a dent in the micro business guys operations. For those of us who have been around ( door open 18 years ) it would be an expense. My CPA charges me 80 per 1099 , my bookkeeper only 25.

Would have been cool to see a poll on how many of us use a combination of bookkeeper and CPA.

Why both ...... well in all honesty you can talk shop to your bookkeeper and they are not obligated to turn you in , or not help you nudge the books. Some will but they are licensed by the FED to report. A bookkeeper does not have the same regulation as they are not licensed.

nc
 
ncga

ncga

249
63
If you are growing on your own property said:
Be carful if you own your location that you take deductions because it can come back to bite you when you sell said property


I have an accountant and when he's done said:
So right on :anim_09:



[/QUOTE=Set up a landscaping business, pay 150 for a license and you are golden.


BE very careful when you hit the 100K level . The state ( Cali)is auditing businesses to make sure you pay a USE tax ( 8.25% )if you order things online or out of state. I'm getting creamed for 2008 before I knew :(


Also when setting up a biz try and do intellectual things like Landscape Design. Not as many expected deduction and no sales tax hassles. Also selling cold food works well.

A key sign for an audit is rental income with no depreciation or cost of good to rent


Way to go Joker great info.

A quickbooks consultant can be a key part to your team. Mine just polished mine up today. She goes back and compare my categories to past years. Showing growth but not to much or to little

nc
 
sanvanalona

sanvanalona

1,878
263
Thank Obamacare for that...

They slid in a bill to help cover it by requiring EVERY transaction over $600 to have a 1099 associated with it.

Smokestack - Study American history and you will see that our times of ECONOMIC BOOMS are when taxes (for everyone, people, corps, etc) are LOW.

I think we (americans) can agree that we can spend our money much wiser then the government. Private industry beats them at every opportunity they are 'allowed' to play in.

I have a been a student of American History, Politics, and Literature, I have no idea what time you are speaking of when you say that the economic booms were when taxes were universally low. Can you give some examples please? I know that America was most prosperous post world warII and the rich were heavily taxed, look at Eisenhower, Nixon or even Reagan, all had much higher taxes for the rich than Obama has today. Also, regarding 1099's not sure what that has to do with healthcare that Obama has been attempting to implement. Are you saying that 1099's were not required before Obama's healthcare plan, I know that I have had friends in the contracting business that have filed them for decades, or are you saying that the 600 dollar limit is new and lower than the old limit? I also don't agree with you when you say private industry always does better than the government, and my case in point would be the prison systems. They are privatized and cost more than ever before while simultaneously paying lobbyists in Washington to keep their prisons filled with people, like the people on this site that enjoy growing a mostly illegal plant, a real "fuck em while they are coming and going", at least that is what I see. I understand capitalism, but it needs to be regulated in order to maintain fairness and keep industry accountable for standards of quality, hence the need for government oversight.
 
motherlode

motherlode

@Rolln_J
Supporter
5,524
313
:harvest:

Never better words said. I'm sure this will go down. The main reasons WAY to many get by without paying taxes because 1099 are not mandatory. The idea behind the 1099 was to do data matching. That way they make sure everybody reports income. Really would put a dent in the micro business guys operations. For those of us who have been around ( door open 18 years ) it would be an expense. My CPA charges me 80 per 1099 , my bookkeeper only 25.

Would have been cool to see a poll on how many of us use a combination of bookkeeper and CPA.

Why both ...... well in all honesty you can talk shop to your bookkeeper and they are not obligated to turn you in , or not help you nudge the books. Some will but they are licensed by the FED to report. A bookkeeper does not have the same regulation as they are not licensed.

nc

seems very unrealistic

so if somebody who owns a catering company goes to costco to buy meat and supplies and spends 600 bux - then they have to 1099 costco?

what the fuck - I should go to accounting school because thats the job that will be the next boom in the US

gotta go enroll in school and grab me some of that socialist pell grant money while Im at it
 
ncga

ncga

249
63
motherlode

No you would not have to 1099 Costco. But if you take that raw cold food and then heat it, and make a meal for the Costco staff then charge them . Costco would then 1099 you for the amount of your bill. I tend to get 1099 from larger companies.

The 1099 is just a better paper trail for the gov.

I had a fence built on part of my property this past year. The cost was 4200.00 I am taking that deduction as an expense. I am not going to 1099 the fence builder but I could. If the new law were to take affect I WOULD HAVE TO 1099 him.

Also glad you could use some of the tax money I pay to go back to school. I for one do no feel bad for the big tax checks I write every quarter to the IRS.

Main reason is when I paid no taxes I had no money. The more I pay in taxes means I'm earning more money. Sounds backwards but it works for me .

The real rip off and often overlooked is how much one needs to pay to Keep you stuff. Other wise know as INSURANCE. I pay WAY more in insurance than I do on taxes. But again 30 years ago when I was broke I paid ZERO in insurance cost. If you own nothing its hard to be sued ( well have a judgment collected ) LOL

nc
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
Gonna grow some veggies, do the farmer's market. CPA, good CPA, is money well spent, IMO.

Insurance.... we've had that discussion.

NC, your tip about the beans got me on a mission to grow my own specialty dry bush beans. All I need is to get a full collection going, already have a good start with some heirlooms and rare varieties. Trying to fill a niche, and much of what you've told us has been and will be applied (I just can't seem to convince Dave of the true utility of a good CPA, even if we ultimately file our taxes ourselves, maybe you can help there...).

In any event, that's the approach I'm taking. Just need to make best use of the land.
 
P

paperplane

380
28
1099 at the clubs? are you guys serious? I hope if any of you guys sale your left over meds to cover your monthly cost's are NOT doing this. You are basically saying to our great Goverment that you are in fact a drug dealer. DO NOT fall into the state's trap. they are working with the feds to data mine the cannabis industry.
 
R

RMCG

2,050
48
I have a been a student of American History, Politics, and Literature, I have no idea what time you are speaking of when you say that the economic booms were when taxes were universally low. Can you give some examples please? I know that America was most prosperous post world warII and the rich were heavily taxed, look at Eisenhower, Nixon or even Reagan, all had much higher taxes for the rich than Obama has today. Also, regarding 1099's not sure what that has to do with healthcare that Obama has been attempting to implement. Are you saying that 1099's were not required before Obama's healthcare plan, I know that I have had friends in the contracting business that have filed them for decades, or are you saying that the 600 dollar limit is new and lower than the old limit? I also don't agree with you when you say private industry always does better than the government, and my case in point would be the prison systems. They are privatized and cost more than ever before while simultaneously paying lobbyists in Washington to keep their prisons filled with people, like the people on this site that enjoy growing a mostly illegal plant, a real "fuck em while they are coming and going", at least that is what I see. I understand capitalism, but it needs to be regulated in order to maintain fairness and keep industry accountable for standards of quality, hence the need for government oversight.


Post ww2 'boom' is a myth propagated by Keynesian economists.

Figure-1.bmp


Roaring 20's and Mellon Tax Cuts.

The Mellon Tax Cuts



When the federal income tax was enacted in 1913, the top rate was just 7 percent. By the end of World War I, rates had been greatly increased at all income levels, with the top rate jacked up to 77 percent (for income over $1 million). After five years of very high tax rates, rates were cut sharply under the Revenue Acts of 1921, 1924, and 1926. The combined top marginal normal and surtax rate fell from 73 percent to 58 percent in 1922, and then to 50 percent in 1923 (income over $200,000). In 1924, the top tax rate fell to 46 percent (income over $500,000). The top rate was just 25 percent (income over $100,000) from 1925 to 1928, and then fell to 24 percent in 1929.


Secretary Mellon knew that high tax rates caused the tax base to contract and that lower rates would boost economic growth. In 1924, Mellon noted: "The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business." He received strong support from President Coolidge, who argued that "the wise and correct course to follow in taxation and all other economic legislation is not to destroy those who have already secured success but to create conditions under which every one will have a better chance to be successful."



The Effects of the Mellon Tax Cuts
It is often assumed that broad cuts in income tax rates only benefit the rich and thrust a larger share of the tax burden on the poor. But detailed Internal Revenue Service data show that the across-the-board rate cuts of the early 1920s-including large cuts at the top end-resulted in greater tax payments and a larger tax share paid by those with high incomes. Figure 1 focuses on those earning more than $100,000. As the marginal tax rate on those high-income earners was cut sharply from 60 percent or more (to a maximum of 73 percent) to just 25 percent, taxes paid by that group soared from roughly $300 million to $700 million per year. The share of overall income taxes paid by the group rose from about one-third in the early 1920s to almost two-thirds by the late 1920s. (Note that inflation was virtually zero between 1922 and 1930, thus the tax amounts shown for that period are essentially real changes).
030304-2.gif
The tax cuts allowed the U.S. economy to grow rapidly during the mid- and late-1920s. Between 1922 and 1929, real gross national product grew at an annual average rate of 4.7 percent and the unemployment rate fell from 6.7 percent to 3.2 percent. The Mellon tax cuts restored incentives to work, save, and invest, and discouraged the use of tax shelters.


The rising tide of strong economic growth lifted all boats. At the top end, total income grew as a result of many more people becoming prosperous, rather than a fixed number of high earners getting greatly richer. For example, between 1922 and 1928, the average income reported on tax returns of those earning more than $100,000 increased 15 percent, but the number of taxpayers in that group almost quadrupled.



<Hmmm. Trickle down?>




During the same period, the number of taxpayers earning between $10,000 and $100,000 increased 84 percent, while the number reporting income of less than $10,000 fell.


The decade of the 1920s had started with very high tax rates and an economic recession. Tax rates were massively increased in 1917 at all income levels. Rates were increased again in 1918. Real GNP fell in 1919, 1920, and 1921 with a total three-year fall of 16 percent.



(Deflation between 1920 and 1922 may also help explain the drop in tax revenues in those years, evident in Table 1).


As tax rates were cut in the mid-1920s, total tax revenues initially fell. But as the economy responded and began growing quickly, revenues soared as incomes rose. By 1928, revenues had surpassed the 1920 level even though tax rates had been dramatically cut.





1099s and Obamacare -

The 1099 'limit' will be raised in 2012, but it now reporting requirements 'covers' more areas. Everyone used to think, 'oh thats just for contractors', but its not. And it ABSOLUTELY has to do with Obamacare.

"Section 9006 of the health care bill -- just a few lines buried in the 2,409-page document -- mandates that beginning in 2012 all companies will have to issue 1099 tax forms not just to contract workers but to any individual or corporation from which they buy more than $600 in goods or services in a tax year."

Right now, the IRS Form 1099 is used to document income for individual workers other than wages and salaries. Freelancers receive them each year from their clients, and businesses issue them to the independent contractors they hire.



But under the new rules, if a freelance designer buys a new iMac from the Apple Store, they'll have to send Apple a 1099. A laundromat that buys soap each week from a local distributor will have to send the supplier a 1099 at the end of the year tallying up their purchases.



The bill makes two key changes to how 1099s are used. First, it expands their scope by using them to track payments not only for services but also for tangible goods. Plus, it requires that 1099s be issued not just to individuals, but also to corporations.



Regulation == fairness? Haha Ok.

You realize Fedex now delivers/moves USPS mail right?

'Privatized' prisons are burdened by regulations that even the government couldn't work within. Not really a 'fair' example.

Allow a private company to compete in an unencumbered market and it will always beat the government. They are arguing about 'shutting down the government' right now. What would a private company do? They would have preemptively cut spending, perhaps laid off workers, etc. Whats the governemnt do? Increase 'earnings' by increasing taxes, hire more people to ENFORCE the new 'earning potential', feign like they care that they will 'be shut down' and continues ever expansion...
 
A

AliasAO

660
18
1099 is for contracted work - not for product

if they want to 1099 you tell them to fuckoff

true story here, unless you sign a contractor to me an independent grower for the Disp's then they cant hold you to a 1099. 1099 doesnt exist for anything that is Federally legal.
 
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