Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights

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LocalGrowGuy

LocalGrowGuy

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I think this is a good spot for this. It amazes me how many whackos are out there in uniforms with guns and the authorization to use deadly force.

http://omnifeed.com/article/www.huf...l-dutta-police-washington-post_n_5692266.html

Sunil Dutta, a 17-year veteran of the Los Angeles Police Department and professor of homeland security at Colorado Tech University, has a suggestion for victims of police violence searching for someone to blame: Look in the mirror.

In a column published Tuesday in The Washington Post titled, "I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me," Dutta responds to mounting criticism of the policing tactics on display in Ferguson, Missouri, amid the hyper-militarization of law enforcement and accusations that officers have violated the First Amendment rights of both demonstrators and journalists covering the events. In a particularly telling passage, Dutta argues that citizens could deter police brutality if they were simply more cooperative, even when they're unjustly targeted.

"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you," he writes. "Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"


It's worth noting that arguing with a cop and even verbally abusing one, as well as asking for a badge number, are not illegal actions, though they have been known to lead to punishment or arrest. Dutta goes on to admit that police officers aren't perfect and some have been known to be corrupt bullies, but he says your best bet is to swallow your pride, stay quiet and submit to any unlawful actions by police.

"But if you believe (or know) that the cop stopping you is violating your rights or is acting like a bully, I guarantee that the situation will not become easier if you show your anger and resentment," he writes. Dutta goes on to encourage people to seek legal recourse after the fact, rather than protest at the time of the encounter. Of course, an April 2014 poll found that half of Americans don't believe cops are held accountable for misconduct, so that likely won't be much solace to most people.

Dutta also claims that you can simply exercise a number of rights, and decline to submit to an illegal stop or search or question a cop's legal basis to search you -- as if those behaviors will automatically ward off an officer.

The column's general premise was never in doubt. Of course it's true that one way to avoid escalating a confrontation with a hot-headed or misbehaving cop is to follow orders or shut up, even if your rights are being trampled.

But it's concerning that Dutta, an officer who both admits structural problems with police behavior and has called for reforms -- including an overhaul of internal investigations and the use of officer-mounted cameras to record interactions with citizens -- appears so unsympathetic to citizens who are growing increasingly intolerant of police abuse.

As J.D. Tucille, managing editor of Reason.com, writes, the tone of Dutta's column reveals that he is ignorant of the broader concerns expressed by police critics:

If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don't comply, we already have a problem. That's especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do.

If you really think that everybody else should "just do what I tell you," you're wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can't function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit.


Dutta is no doubt correct in claiming that being a cop is a difficult and dangerous job, and that the overwhelming majority of officers are not eager to use their service weapons on anyone, unarmed or not. But in the face of countless instances of officers harassing, abusing and brutalizing suspects far beyond the limits of department policy, it is unfair -- and even un-American -- to suggest that "not the cops, but the people they stop" are primarily responsible for avoiding this harsh and often illegal treatment.
 
LocalGrowGuy

LocalGrowGuy

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Dutta is an idiot and it shows how the mindset of our police forces are.

REALLY???? EVEN IF YOUR WRONG" SHUT UP AND SUBMIT?"

My reply to that is :F*** YOU!
This is fine as long as you don't mind spending a night in jail. You wouldn't say that to a 17 year veteran cop. But you are right, it is insane at how militarized our police have become, but what do you expect when the pentagon shares it's old equipment and new equipment to different cities around the US? Do we really need an armored personnel carrier for the LAPD? Wait, was the movie Heat based on real life? No?

'Woo hoo we get free M-16's, let's go bust down some doors!'
 
S

ssteely71

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This is fine as long as you don't mind spending a night in jail. You wouldn't say that to a 17 year veteran cop. But you are right, it is insane at how militarized our police have become, but what do you expect when the pentagon shares it's old equipment and new equipment to different cities around the US? Do we really need an armored personnel carrier for the LAPD? Wait, was the movie Heat based on real life? No?

'Woo hoo we get free M-16's, let's go bust down some doors!'

I come from a special perspective, having spent 5,475 nights in jail, give or take a few. I have no boundaries as to what I will say to law enforcement as my overall respect for them is low based on my observations.
But the everyday law abiding citizen will generally do as their told, unfortunately. As for the militarization of our police forces....I think its inevitable that police will need heavy equipment to deal with an increasingly poor and disrespectful population.
 
Medusa

Medusa

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I believe most people that want to be cops like to control. And my experience a little weak in the dick department so need to make up for it elsewhere. Lol
 
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ZONER

ZONER

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Remember
DO AS I SAY ....NOT AS I DO"
That's the police motto ....

A lot of big cities such as New York City, have officers who never interacted with people of color or anyone out of their racial makeup. They believe everyone's guilty of something .... It's burnt into their skulls at their police academy, that "you control the situation" and as soon as someone mouths back ... WHAMO 6 squad cars show up and it can grow out of control to the point it starts with Hats and Bats (riot gear) and ends up being a big ... Big...FUBAR situation.

A friend I use to hang with and was real laid back, when to be a police office and became a total dick. Now he's retired and reached out to me wanting to know if we can get the old gang back together for a few drinks ... Fucking hell no..... He left and never looked back let alone reach out to us while he was 5-o

He dick if your trolling this site "I messed around with your sister". ....lol
 
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fishwhistle

fishwhistle

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I think the this guys doing us all a favor and showing us how cops really think,therein lies the problem.I think they have forgotten who signs their paychecks,lol.I think making police wear body cameras should be mandatory,check out what happened when the rialto ca. PD were forced to wear cameras,citizen complaints down by 82% and use of force down by 60%!
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=44427
 
Stalks

Stalks

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I'm sorry I have to disagree with many of the post, even when you are doing something wrong or being profiled just be respectful to the motherfucker and you will more than likely get off easier than if you have the slightest attitude.
 
Bull Trout

Bull Trout

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This is from my point of view... Around here. The majority of the LEO are young PSTD prone military veterans or reserve veterans damged by the current affairs (2001 to present) our nation had been involved in. There is a culture of young folks who were engaged in actual enemy combat that now are currently engaging citizens in the same manner. Why are we as a citizenry allowing traumatized individuals to be hired be armed in the name of law enforcement?

If our citizens need to be screened to obtain a firearm, by all means any person being selected to be a local law enforcement officer need to pass minimally the same screening.

Michael Brown should be alive right now. He took 6 shot the the 6th killed him as he was surrendering. ( as what the most recent media portraits) If you would like to tell me that officer Darren Wilson doesn't reflect a damaged solider who became a cop? Let me hear your answer. I am here for a healthy discussion.

Peace

BT
 
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fishwhistle

fishwhistle

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I'm sorry I have to disagree with many of the post, even when you are doing something wrong or being profiled just be respectful to the motherfucker and you will more than likely get off easier than if you have the slightest attitude.
You get what you give,you respect me i respect you.Im not someones bitch or intimidated by some prick enough to cower down and let him have his way with me if i dont deserve it,sorry.
 
K

kolah

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I worked in a medical/chiro office last year in AZ. Almost all of the local cops and the SWAT fuckers came in for their bi-weekly steroid shots. They got them easily because the doc would falsely diagnose them as being testosterone deficient. Everyone should be very afraid of these murderers and abusers. Avoid them at all costs and remember almost all pig encounters happen while driving your car. Drive less and when you do drive no booze, no drugs, nuttin. Make sure all your lights work and stay insured and tagged because they can now park their fat asses in their cars and accurately scan everyone's license plate.

as far as "respect" to those fuckers go? I politely and firmly take the fifth. I say nothing, hand them my license and papers and zip it. I recently wrote up a few sentences on a piece of paper (which I keep in my glovebox)and hand it to them which explains my right to remain silent. I prefer this method as I don't have to kiss their asses nor do I come acrooss as being cocky. I also have a hidden video/audio cam in my wheels.
 
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Puffntuff

Puffntuff

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Cops were picked on as youth and young adults. They now take it out on everyone they incounter. I'm 100% honest with them and usually I get out of tickets. The one time I voiced my rights I got 3 trumped up charges. They laughed at me like call your attorney now. I did went to court and got all charges dropped. I gave the cops that came to testify and smirk and a wink when I left court. They were fuckng pissed. Know your rights and politely express them. You don't know what kind of call those amped up assholes just came from and you don't want to be the next victim. All cops should have to wear cameras that live feed to a computer that can't be edited.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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This is fine as long as you don't mind spending a night in jail. You wouldn't say that to a 17 year veteran cop. But you are right, it is insane at how militarized our police have become, but what do you expect when the pentagon shares it's old equipment and new equipment to different cities around the US? Do we really need an armored personnel carrier for the LAPD? Wait, was the movie Heat based on real life? No?

'Woo hoo we get free M-16's, let's go bust down some doors!'
I don't know how many people remember this, but what brought about this granting of military materiel to local police departments came about as a direct result of this incident. A movie was made (in my old hometown) about it, too. Let me see if I can find the old news stories. Couple of guys did a bank robbery in full daylight, and they were armed to the TEETH. Had vests, assault weapons, were not just shooting at cops, but through their cars, at the helis, all kinda shit went down, it was fuckin' CRAZY. And the people screamed! "What's happening that CRIMINALS are better outfitted than our POLICE??" And so the legislature responded, because the Pentagon doesn't really care who gets the old materiel that Congress foists upon them (like the tanks the Army says it no longer needs, but is getting anyway, at great cost to the larger taxpayer base but equals big pork to the rep whose district makes them thar tanks) and so a program was begun, and now we have militarized police departments.

Hold on, lemme see if I can find the article. Ok, a Wiki will suffice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
 
LocalGrowGuy

LocalGrowGuy

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263
I come from a special perspective, having spent 5,475 nights in jail, give or take a few. I have no boundaries as to what I will say to law enforcement as my overall respect for them is low based on my observations.
But the everyday law abiding citizen will generally do as their told, unfortunately. As for the militarization of our police forces....I think its inevitable that police will need heavy equipment to deal with an increasingly poor and disrespectful population.
Understandably so. I think corrections officers are the worst offenders and enablers of further conflict, violence, etc. inside the facilities they work at. You are correct that most people will automatically show deference to police when they can just as easily question law enforcement's actions.

I don't know how many people remember this, but what brought about this granting of military materiel to local police departments came about as a direct result of this incident. A movie was made (in my old hometown) about it, too. Let me see if I can find the old news stories. Couple of guys did a bank robbery in full daylight, and they were armed to the TEETH. Had vests, assault weapons, were not just shooting at cops, but through their cars, at the helis, all kinda shit went down, it was fuckin' CRAZY. And the people screamed! "What's happening that CRIMINALS are better outfitted than our POLICE??" And so the legislature responded, because the Pentagon doesn't really care who gets the old materiel that Congress foists upon them (like the tanks the Army says it no longer needs, but is getting anyway, at great cost to the larger taxpayer base but equals big pork to the rep whose district makes them thar tanks) and so a program was begun, and now we have militarized police departments.

Hold on, lemme see if I can find the article. Ok, a Wiki will suffice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Yes, the cops had pistols and not much else.

As a counter-point, how many similar gunfights/crimes have occurred since that event? Most of the heavy weaponry is used for drug busts, not armed shootouts with bank robbers. They don't need a Bearcat to serve a drug warrant. I won't get into police killing civilians and their dogs, that's a whole 'nother thread.

Arming swat teams with weapons strong enough to defend themselves against such weapons makes sense for larger cities, but it's scary to me that public servants, not trained military, are getting and using items they don't need. Who would say 'no thanks' to a Bearcat though?

Seamaiden, what are your thoughts about a town of 23,000 having one of these vehicles?

http://freekeene.com/2012/03/14/msnbc-reports-on-keenes-bearcat-controversy/
MSNBC Reports on Keene’s BEARCAT Controversy

By Kari Huus, msnbc.com

The city of Keene, N.H., population 23,000, nestled in a valley in the state’s southwest corner, may not be the first place that comes to mind as a terrorism target, but this summer it will take delivery on a $286,000 armored vehicle, compliments of the Department of Homeland Security.

The Lenco “BearCat,” fitted with thermal imaging, radiation and explosive gas detection systems, gun mounts and rotating hatch is but one example of the kind of quasi-military equipment that has been acquired by local and state law enforcement agencies through billions of dollars worth of federal grant money in the last decade.

“The specialized-mission CBRNE/WMD rescue vehicle will help to guard against a terrorist or (chemical, biological, nuclear, and enhanced conventional weapons/weapons of mass destruction) incident,” said the successful federal grant application filed by the city.
The application noted that Keene hosts several events that draw large crowds each year — such as the annual Pumpkin Festival and Clarence DeMar Marathon — lies on major corridor used by trucks carrying hazardous materials and is a designated evacuation area if there is a nuclear accident at Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Plant in Vernon, Vt. It also pointed out that the city is situated on two flood prone rivers, and Bearcats have proven useful for rescues and patrols during natural disasters.

The Keene City Council voted on Dec. 15 to accept the Homeland Security grant for the equipment as requested by the police. Approval was unsurprising, said City Manager John MacLean.

“The council saw it like I did,” said MacLean, “as a legitimate request … to make safe our department and our community by the use of a too. … It didn’t occur to everybody how big an issue it would be for other reasons.”

MacLean was referring to swift and furious opposition that surfaced soon after the vote, from the liberal wing of the college town, from Libertarian and Tea Party members and from activists from as far away as New Mexico, according to local politicians.

“Almost the next day, the calls started to come into the radio station, the newspaper was inundated with letters to the editor for the next several weeks, extraordinary because the deal was supposed to be done,” said Terry Clark, a councilman who had voted against using the grant. “There was so much about this issue not to like.”

Clark opposed the use of the grant because he thought it wrong to for the U.S. government to lavish money on military grade equipment at the same time it is making deep cuts in funding for education and other mandated programs — costs that he says are now falling on local property taxpayers.

“I thought it was just unconscionable,” he said. “The city of Keene doesn’t have to enable these people. We can tell them ‘no, we don’t think this is a good way to spend money.”

Clark lobbied for the City Council to hold public discussion and then take a new vote. It did so this month, then again voted to approve the Bearcat purchase, though by fewer votes this time.

Across the country — in major cities, but also in relatively rural settings — police have added armored vehicles, hazmat protection, body armor, riot gear, drones and other military grade gear to their toolboxes in the decade since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

According to a recent report by the Center for Investigative Reporting, the federal government has doled out some $34 billion in grants like the one approved for the Keene police force.

When some of that gear was visibly employed for crowd control during the recent Occupy protests, it fueled controversy about how the equipment was to be used.

But some law enforcers say the equipment provides a sense of security.

In Bossier Parish, La., the sheriff’s department acquired a Ballistic Armored Tactical Transport — a heavily armored vehicle that has gun ports and a turret — in 2009 with federal grant money. The vehicle was a tool for the SWAT team to use in the event of a high-threat situation, according to public information officer Bill Davis.

“If you’ve got an active shooter and he has some heavy weaponry we need to be one step ahead,” said Davis.

The BATT has been used only for training so far, he said, comparing it tp the handguns officers carry.

“People want to know if the cavalry needs to be called out, we’re coming. … We are no longer Mayberry,” he added, referring to the northwest Louisiana parish. “This is the fastest growing parish in Louisiana and with that growth is the potential of more crime in the area, and we want to be prepared.”

In Keene, MacLean, the city manager, said the debate over the BearCat purchase opened some eyes on both sides of the debate.

“I think we have two sets of conversations going, both of which are legitimate,” he said. “The (police) chief said it could save lives… If this has potential to save lives, and the lives of the people they work with, why wouldn’t they (acquire it)? But it’s been brought into a separate conversation about militarization of the police.”
 
Puffntuff

Puffntuff

259
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I was in northridge or van nuys when that shoot out happened at the Bank of America but like the other poster said when's the last time that happened? The military should keep there stuff. They give it to local cops so they can replace it. Fuck that
 

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