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Vets for Vets co-op in SoCal. Interested?

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Vets for Vets co-op in SoCal. Interested?

420Meds4Vets 64 Replies 4,896 Views
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#25
Favorite cadence?

C130 rolling down the strip
Airborne daddy gunna take a little trip
Jump up, hook up, shuffle to the door
Jump right out and count to four
1 . . .
2 . . .
3 . . .
4 . . .
If that chute don't open wide
I got another one by my side
If that one don't open too
Look out ground I'm comin' through!

Ahhh good times....good times.
 
#26
First off I'd like to thank you all for your service. Coming from a military family I hope that message will be received from the heart, as it is sent.

I'd like to perhaps offer a bit of outside insight at least as it goes to the medical policies.

Certainly anti MMJ policies are bad, I think most of us here agree on that--but the VA as a health related organization is playing by different rules than essentially the entire US government. There is an issue of liability which is brought on during the practicing of medicine which is probably the biggest issue here.

If you have THC/metabolites/other canna related compounds in your system--those compounds may react with other substances which you are prescribed. Because there has not been FDA testing of these substances together to determine whether or not there is a presences of contraindications (rationales for withholding medical treatment)--it is very difficult to make a safe choice as it regards patient health, certainly this is the case by any legal standard.

Without that knowledge or an industry accepted norm regarding these possible reactions there is just an absolutely gaping hole for the government there in terms of liability. Quite frankly, there should be one, until studies have been performed is impossible to know whether that blood pressure medication will kill you if mixed with weed.

While I'm sure there are substances for which these data, or accepted norms, do exist--there are so many for which it does not that the government essentially says "fuck it" (and they don't have much choice otherwise unless congress acts). The federal law has tied their hands on this one from many different angles, there is all but nothing they can do about it except ask for you to vote a different congressman in.

You'll have to make your own decisions on that end as to who would best represent your needs as a constituent. Choose wisely, congress is the only thing which matters anymore in terms of our societal trajectory as a whole--and they ain't doin' so good right now :)

Good luck to all of you with getting a mutually beneficial situation sorted amongst you, and again--thanks!
 
#27
As a patient that has used both morphine and MMJ together, I can tell you that , for me, there have never been any adverse reactions. The morphine is harder on me than the MMJ. One of the side effects of morphine is nausea and MMJ helps with that.
 
#28
420Meds4Vets said:
As a patient that has used both morphine and MMJ together, I can tell you that , for me, there have never been any adverse reactions. The morphine is harder on me than the MMJ. One of the side effects of morphine is nausea and MMJ helps with that.
Click to expand...

That's perfectly reasonable--but unfortunately medical malpractice laws are more stringent as to the standard of care than people saying "it's never happened to me."

Imagine if someone died, and then in court a medical professional or body used as an argument your statement above to justify it. The risk is too great both in humane and financial terms without further study.

I'm only trying to illustrate that in this area the government is far more crippled to help than in most. Congress really has to change quite a few things (about research, cultivation, schedule of the drug) before this will be possible. Even beyond that you need a way to make it profitable for someone to spend 3-400million on doing the necessary studies, or to find a way to compel the government to fund them. You also need to figure out what we're going to do with the 250,000+ people who will be out of a job the instant that marijuana is legalized federally.

Just from a chemists point of view:

The danger isn't things like morphine--most doctors and pharmacologists would agree there is not a significant interaction going on here. Where the worry lies is in more directed medications, or newer ones. As the complexity of the drugs we take goes up (as it is WILDLY, all the time) the less we really know about what can happen when you mix this with that. It is already at the point today where this is a totally legit concern. I suppose that is what it boils down to, while this seems like not such a big deal--there is in fact a large amount of scientific evidence which states very clearly we should tread lightly when it comes to playing chemistry set in our bloodstream and brain. The only reason I said anything here is to point out for once that the government is being slow moving and bureaucratic and that is a GOOD thing. If you get a drug test at a physician and fail it, then at the same physician try to be prescribed medication--you will find it difficult until you can pass a blood/urine test for that physician. He is protecting himself from the same malpractice lawsuit the government doesn't want.

ANY upstanding physician who follows the law and his oath will refuse to prescribe something whilst knowing the patient is introducing other substances into the body for which there is no interaction data or model. The only exception being if the patient is essentially dead already if the physician does not act immediately.

It certainly IS a crappy situation, but for once there is sound--scientific--reasoning behind it. That and the law (hence, congress).
 
#29
I'm not asking the VA to provide my MMJ or a rec, however they shouldn't being doing drug screens based on a contract signed under duress nor should they be threatening to withhold obviously needed VA meds for refusing to sign said contract.

If the doctor gives me morphine and then I take something over the counter (so to speak) that kills me, the doctor wouldn't be liable anyway.

As the VMMA rightly points out these contracts are coerced and therefore useless as protection anyway. If anything it opens them up to more litigation for refusing treatment based on a non-VA contract signed under duress.
 
#30
As VA policy states:

"While patients participating in State marijuana programs must not be denied VHA services, the decisions to modify treatment plans in those situations need to be made by individual providers in partnership with their patients."

A doctor, unilaterally modifying my "treatment plan," by refusing to provide pain management (meds) is in violation of this section of the policy AND the VA Patient Bill of Rights (posted in every VA health center) which include the RIGHT to pain management.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it... ;)
 
#31
In fact, I think I may have just found a lawyer that would be willing to take a case against the doctor and the VA should they deny me pain management in the future after I break the contract that I signed under duress. :D

YMMV...
 
#32
1A251 Loadmaster - World Beer Team

To my fellow vets that are getting hassled over drug tests I would recommend you have the VA prescribe you Marinol. If you have a hard time getting to sleep this might help, and will help out with those pesky tests if you can legally have metabolites in your system.

For PTSD I recommend high strength CBD edibles when you wake. For immediate relief a high CBD oil is a great tool. For edibles keep the sugar low. I know cookies, brownies, and cupcakes are awesome but all that sugar doesn't help get the CBD into your system. And it'll just lead to other health problems, so keep it healthy.
 
#34
My situation is pain not PTSD and I also get meds for sleep but I'm not tolerating them well. I'll look into the Marinol because amitriptyline is worse than not sleeping.

I have a call into the lawyer that I think might be able to help so if any other socal vets would like help violating their pain management contracts, PM me soon. ;)

BTW: The lawyer is also a U.S. Marine and his bio states that he's "on a lifelong mission of fighting for all of our rights as citizens against corporate greed and oppression, violations of rights by city, state, and federal governments and mistreatment at the hands of public organizations like city hall and law enforcement."

I don't subscribe to the anti-business crap but the oppression by the feds part (and doctors in this case) makes me think he'd be perfect.
 
#35
I definitely did not mean to make the policy out to be a good one--I want to be clear on that. Everyone should have the right to put whatever they want in their bodies--soldiers most of all, you've earned that imo.

I'm just saying that from a chemical standpoint this is shaky ground, there's just too many meds out there to know the effects of all of them with weed without lots of investment in studies--and even then weed is not standardized, it contains MANY different chemicals in high enough quantities to produce a negative reaction if the wrong thing were to be introduced into the body.

The problem is that science says its flat out unethical to prescribe meds of a palliative nature when other substances are known to be present for which the possible interactions have not been studied whatsoever. The VA may say what it wants, but I think you'll find the Hippocratic oath will circumvent whatever a doctor is supposed to do (a good doctor at least).

It's just a really tough spot, that was my only purpose for posting was to discuss that sensibly, and to call attention to the complexity of the problem. There is absolutely no doubt its a problem when vets can get the meds that work for them in a safe and legal manner--its just for this case it will take much much more than a small amount of lobbying to effect change--sans that nifty lawyer you said you've got.

That is the correct and only route to take, because it really is science and the law which are holding you back, this time it just happens not to be ideology--even though legalization concerns tend to fall along ideological boundaries.

Good luck in any case, and smoke good :)
 
#37
420Meds4Vets said:
As VA policy states:

"While patients participating in State marijuana programs must not be denied VHA services, the decisions to modify treatment plans in those situations need to be made by individual providers in partnership with their patients."

A doctor, unilaterally modifying my "treatment plan," by refusing to provide pain management (meds) is in violation of this section of the policy AND the VA Patient Bill of Rights (posted in every VA health center) which include the RIGHT to pain management.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it... ;)
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There you go. It's maddening, though, that you, and therefore probably by default ANY veteran, are forced to push and push and push just to get treatment, instead of being able to focus on treatment, recovery and just living life.
420Meds4Vets said:
In fact, I think I may have just found a lawyer that would be willing to take a case against the doctor and the VA should they deny me pain management in the future after I break the contract that I signed under duress. :D

YMMV...
Click to expand...
I sure hope so, yet, see above. This is just wrong on so many levels.


This is an older story, but I thought I'd read an easing of the rules.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/health/policy/24veterans.html?pagewanted=all
 
#39
My wife is worried about that here in colorado. Do guys know if there s an organized group of mmj veterans here in colorado ?
 
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