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Wage Slavery

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Wage Slavery

deepthought 97 Replies 7,690 Views
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Growing was never big on the east coast or accepted as it is on the west or Co. but the mayor of a town near me just allowed a disp to open after the last one balked on it and you can bet he will get my ass to the polls when he is up for a second term and you can bet I will vote against Christie when he try's to become what ever he is aspiring to be. He is currently putting out commercials for himself granted his is not currently running for anything and his term is almost over but legalization was passed by corzine in 2010 the last day of his term and thrown in christie lap and he dragged it out until he was re-elected almost 4 years now and only the second disp is about to open .... wonder how many people suffered needlessly because of his political agenda.......
The Following is "All" that needs to be Said... A "True" 1%'er That Dems. criticize daily... If the Guy Don't Want you to Drink A "Large Coke" what do you think He has to say about A "Fat Joint"

Michael Bloomberg
Michael Rubens Bloomberg is an American business magnate, politician and philanthropist. He is the 108th and current Mayor of New York City, having served three consecutive terms since his first election in 2001. Wikipedia
 
Oh, how quickly we forget our history. I do want regulation, good regulation. Not this self-oversight bullshit. Right now, if there were zero oversight more people would be dead and no one would know for sure how or even why. We sure love to bag on the bureaucratic bullshit, until we demand some answers.
 
Republicans no more live up to the ideals their party was founded on than Democrats do.

As citizens we will continue losing until we get corporate cash out of politics- and until we can end the ridiculous situation of 2 year and four year and six year officials spending their entire lives in office due to gerrymandered districts, unlimited franking privileges and all the rest of it.

I get people telling me I'm dreaming all the time. Yes, I am. I'm dreaming of an America worth fighting for. This one doesn't fight for me, why should it have my blind loyalty? Every other citizen should be asking themselves the same things, every election cycle.
 
Oh, how quickly we forget our history. I do want regulation, good regulation. Not this self-oversight bullshit. Right now, if there were zero oversight more people would be dead and no one would know for sure how or even why. We sure love to bag on the bureaucratic bullshit, until we demand some answers.
If the "Examples" I posted are A Sample of "Good Regulation" Pardon Me Seamaiden but I want No Part of It...
 
I was in the middle of attempting to work my way through school (going half time and working to pay down the debt as I accrued it) when the recession hit. I immediately was laid off from my job (also a factory position building electrical components for sound systems). This was devastating for me. I couldn't pay the bills, feed myself, or pay for the odds and ends required for school (printer ink etc.). Really took the wind out of my sails.

Essentially when the recession hit I was on track to finishing a Bachelor's degree with under 20K debt. A wholly manageable sum. I had worked hard to make that happen (one semester of school costs me about 30K + living expenses which come to around $3,000/semester).

By the time I was able to find employment and drag myself back into school to finish tuition had skyrocketed, the interest rates on student loans had increased, grant payments had decreased significantly, my cost of living had gone up by about 30%, and my income had been halved.

What once was my dream of getting out with an M.S. with under 40K debt (I was well on my way there) has now turned into a 100K debt before I'm even done with the thing.

This isn't a situation where I had my parents helping me get through school or what have you. They are supportive of me, but don't have the ability to help financially. In fact, I often have to help my father financially as he is a retired, disabled, former state employee--and in Illinois the state pensions and insurance plans have been screwed around with a lot. A good portion of his retirement went poof in 2008 (more than half of his 30+ years of work gone over night). Now it appears that his Social Security may take a hit as well.

I find myself so torn over this whole thing. I love chemistry and always thought that I wouldn't give up my education for the world--but now I wonder if pushing to educate myself was ultimately worth it. The sequester reduced my potential job market by at least 25% in and of itself, and that's post-recession reduction. At this point just the INTEREST payments on my student debt will price me out of the bottom 20% of the remaining market (allowing for food/shelter/travel).

I basically need to land a dream job immediately post-graduation or risk financial ruin--and if the government keeps playing games like it is I won't even have that possibility to look forward to, especially if more cuts to NIST and NIH come down.

Sometimes I think I would've been better off getting a radiology tech certification or something like that and just getting a job however many years ago that would've been--but I wanted to help solve the world's problems with my brain.

Silly me, thinking I could make good financial decisions and avoid utter ruin at the hands of an inept government.
 
SoCal, we've already lived an era of zero regulation. What did the state of California get for it? Countryside that is still too toxic to walk around, let alone live upon. Oh yeah, I really wanna live like that. If there were no regulation at all of FF going on, then no one would know where the fuck that salmonella came from in the first place. You're saying you really want it that way? Because I sure in hell do not.

See, the Libertarian ideal should rule--that your freedom stops where mine begins--but corporations have gotten in the way of that idea, what people should be MORE pissed off about IMO is the fact that our right to legal redress, i.e. our ability to sue in court, is now being impinged upon. That impinges upon my own Libertarian ideal.

Edit* I have a really fun little story to tell about how state and federal regulation helped me get a porta-shitter off our property, one that was literally overflowing with shit and garbage. If'n anyone's interested, that is.
 
If the "Examples" I posted are A Sample of "Good Regulation" Pardon Me Seamaiden but I want No Part of It...

Good government IS possible. Only our elected officials' vested interests are telling us otherwise. We don't have to choose between bad government and no government- we need to insist that our government be competent- and that the consequences for failure are real and WILL HAPPEN.

Kinda like McDonald's, right?
 
SoCal, we've already lived an era of zero regulation. What did the state of California get for it? Countryside that is still too toxic to walk around, let alone live upon. Oh yeah, I really wanna live like that. If there were no regulation at all of FF going on, then no one would know where the fuck that salmonella came from in the first place. You're saying you really want it that way? Because I sure in hell do not.

See, the Libertarian ideal should rule--that your freedom stops where mine begins--but corporations have gotten in the way of that idea, what people should be MORE pissed off about IMO is the fact that our right to legal redress, i.e. our ability to sue in court, is now being impinged upon. That impinges upon my own Libertarian ideal.

Edit* I have a really fun little story to tell about how state and federal regulation helped me get a porta-shitter off our property, one that was literally overflowing with shit and garbage. If'n anyone's interested, that is.
Zero Regulation... You Crack Me Up. Regulations (Fed) in Moderation... Not Dictatorship. Ca is "Broke" and it is Due to Government not Corporation... The Corporation and Businesses Have Left. To Expensive ;)

P.S. Been Here All my Life and I Have Seen it All through Many Presidents / Governors / Regulations... Over many Years so Your Argument has Little Validity with me... Sorry
 
I can remember my Grandmom who was very political big Rizzo supporter and would work the polls and all that stuff had tons of friends in politic's and as a kid I remember numerous political arguments debates and they never seems to end at that point i came to realize that a few things can never be debated without tempers flaring 1) politic's 2) religion 3)education and the thread goes on..........
 
If you choose to keep a closed mind and not examine California's history, then that's your choice. :) But, our state operates the way it does for a reason, we're broke for a very specific reason (it's called "voter mandated minimum spending"), and that has not a thing to do with how we do or don't want stuff like our food supply and things we put into our bodies or around our homes to be. And I just don't know what to say if you really think corporations have not a thing to do with the current state of our governance, I took you to be pretty well rounded on the information side of this issue.
 
Yeah... OK. They are "Minimum Spending" because of A "Deficit" This Isn't an Argument for Here but I will leave you with A First Page "Google" search of Businesses Leave California


About 73,800,000 results(0.25 seconds)
Search Results

  1. Why Are California's Businesses Disappearing? - Businessweek

    www.businessweek.com/.../why-are-californias-businesses-disappearing‎
    Jul 3, 2013 - Every now and then, one state governor or another will head to California to pitch businesses on leaving the Golden State. Canada's ...
  2. Two dozen companies commit to leaving California | News - KCRA ...

    ►►
    www.kcra.com/...companies...leaving-California/-/...
    Feb 14, 2013
    Two dozen California companies have said they are tired of the business-bashing in Sacramento, along ...
    More by Mike Luery
  3. California Lost 5.2% of its Businesses in 2012 | FrontPage Magazine

    frontpagemag.com/2013/.../california-lost-5-2-of-its-businesses-in-2012/‎
    Jul 27, 2013 - “It's more likely the disappearance of a number of businesses than it is businesses leaving California,” says Kevin Klowden, an economist at the ...
  4. Articles: California to Industry: Get Lost - American Thinker

    www.americanthinker.com/2013/06/california_to_industry_get_lost.html‎
    Jun 6, 2013 - If you were the leaders of the State of California and you were hemorrhaging businesses, with entire industries leaving as fast as they could ...
  5. Companies Bid Farewell to California | Interviews | Varney ...

    www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/varney.../companies-bid-farewell-california
    Companies Bid Farewell to California. Print; Email; Share; Recommend; Tweet. By Seana Smith. Hot on the heels of other tech giants leaving for Utah, Intel ...
  6. 2011 total: 254 companies leave California | moved, companie ...

    www.ocregister.com/articles/moved-342887-companies-texas.html‎
    Mar 2, 2012 - Business: 2011 total: 254 companies leave California | moved, companies, texas, ocregister, vranich, jan, jobs, california, move, manufacturer.
  7. Are manufacturers really leaving California? It's complicated ...

    www.caeconomy.org/.../are-manufacturers-really-leaving-california-its-c...‎
    Apr 3, 2013 - "I think the narrative of companies leaving California in general is overblown entirely," Taylor said. "The data is not there. I know people like to ...
  8. California residents, businesses consider bailing on Golden State ...

    www.foxnews.com/.../california-residents-businesses-consider-bailing-on...‎
    Jan 23, 2013 - California residents, businesses consider bailing on Golden State over ... to leave the state," said Ashley, who lives just over the California state ...
  9. Texas Messing With California Businesses - Voice of San Diego

    voiceofsandiego.org/.../texas-messing-with-california-businesses-fact-che...‎
    Mar 11, 2013 - But Gastelum said he just wanted to convey how many businesses wanted to leave California. “My emphasis was on the jobs and corporations ...
  10. Why Businesses are Leaving California? Sacramento Policies Raise ...

    capoliticalnews.com/.../why-businesses-are-leaving-california-sacramento...‎
    Feb 10, 2013 - Report: Costly state energy policies to raise California power costs by 33 percent By Michael Bastasch, Daily Caller, 01/24/2013 California has ...


P.S. Among the Highest Unemployment Rate in the Nation, Some of the Highest State Tax Rates
Businesses Leaving in Droves (Loss of Highest Possible Gain of Tax Revenue)
Lack of Job Availability = The Definition of "Death Spiral"
 
See, the Libertarian ideal should rule--that your freedom stops where mine begins--but corporations have gotten in the way of that idea, what people should be MORE pissed off about IMO is the fact that our right to legal redress, i.e. our ability to sue in court, is now being impinged upon. That impinges upon my own Libertarian ideal.

There's a bit of a flaw in this logic though. I don't mean that in a bad way I'm just saying that the issue goes a bit deeper than you're putting it. Right?

So let's take your ideal: your freedom stops where mine begins.
So people are free to form groups, and indeed corporations. That's part of their freedom. When they have these large groups their relationship with the government fundamentally changes. Because there is no law preventing it they engage in their own version of "legal redress" shall we call it--by lobbying congress.

So there is this spectrum from employee, to entrepreneur, to small business, to medium business, to large, to nation-sized, to multinational, to international. Where do we draw that line?

Where does whose freedom stop and why? This is the question government is meant to answer, the base of the majority of disagreements between humans across the whole of time. Self-government is supposed to be the closest approximation to the ideal, that's our model.

The problem is not the corporations who are exercising their freedom, it is the congress who are supposed to moderate and oversee the process by which "freedom" is doled out (in the diminutive sense).

Congress is able to both reduce or stop any and all of what might ail you specifically or us as a whole in the legal sense. As a necessary result of our constitution and the legal structure of our government it is then by proxy the people who are at fault.

This congress and the 6 previous have failed to do much of anything of note. The American people have not taken note. The self portion of self government has fallen into disrepair. That isn't the fault of congress or anyone above adjacent or in between. It is OUR responsibility to give two halves of a shit (one entire shit) about our country and do something about what is happening. Self government has become government, the scapegoat for all of our woes and the progenitor of all of our suffering--the seventh seal of the apocalypse, the second coming of Stalin feat. cronies and every other metaphor to have fallen out of the hat thus far.

All the while it's actually us who are running the show. Is it any wonder that we're doing a shit job while we sit here and feel sorry for ourselves about it? If you think of the American people as one man and one woman, both who have the job of voting (Read: voting is totally our job in this whole thing)--for at least the last 20 years every day when the alarm rings for them to go in to work they both tie off, chase the dragon a bit, and nod back off. Every once in awhile one of them comes in, unwashed and without pants, to cast a vote.


What I'm saying is if voting was our job (it is) we would be fired as fuck. Unfortunately we're actually the top of the pyramid here, so there's no one to fire us. It's like we're the CEO of a company and we're just in our top-floor office snorting meth and collecting our pee in jars. That's how our country is being run, and it's us doing it--or rather not doing it.

Well, that got pretty deep and specific. Obviously Seamaiden if there's any nastiness it's not directed at you--this is us as a whole and that includes me.
 
There's a bit of a flaw in this logic though. I don't mean that in a bad way I'm just saying that the issue goes a bit deeper than you're putting it. Right?

So let's take your ideal: your freedom stops where mine begins.
So people are free to form groups, and indeed corporations. That's part of their freedom. When they have these large groups their relationship with the government fundamentally changes. Because there is no law preventing it they engage in their own version of "legal redress" shall we call it--by lobbying congress.

So there is this spectrum from employee, to entrepreneur, to small business, to medium business, to large, to nation-sized, to multinational, to international. Where do we draw that line?

Where does whose freedom stop and why? This is the question government is meant to answer, the base of the majority of disagreements between humans across the whole of time. Self-government is supposed to be the closest approximation to the ideal, that's our model.

The problem is not the corporations who are exercising their freedom, it is the congress who are supposed to moderate and oversee the process by which "freedom" is doled out (in the diminutive sense).

Congress is able to both reduce or stop any and all of what might ail you specifically or us as a whole in the legal sense. As a necessary result of our constitution and the legal structure of our government it is then by proxy the people who are at fault.

This congress and the 6 previous have failed to do much of anything of note. The American people have not taken note. The self portion of self government has fallen into disrepair. That isn't the fault of congress or anyone above adjacent or in between. It is OUR responsibility to give two halves of a shit (one entire shit) about our country and do something about what is happening. Self government has become government, the scapegoat for all of our woes and the progenitor of all of our suffering--the seventh seal of the apocalypse, the second coming of Stalin feat. cronies and every other metaphor to have fallen out of the hat thus far.

All the while it's actually us who are running the show. Is it any wonder that we're doing a shit job while we sit here and feel sorry for ourselves about it? If you think of the American people as one man and one woman, both who have the job of voting (Read: voting is totally our job in this whole thing)--for at least the last 20 years every day when the alarm rings for them to go in to work they both tie off, chase the dragon a bit, and nod back off. Every once in awhile one of them comes in, unwashed and without pants, to cast a vote.


What I'm saying is if voting was our job (it is) we would be fired as fuck. Unfortunately we're actually the top of the pyramid here, so there's no one to fire us. It's like we're the CEO of a company and we're just in our top-floor office snorting meth and collecting our pee in jars. That's how our country is being run, and it's us doing it--or rather not doing it.

Well, that got pretty deep and specific. Obviously Seamaiden if there's any nastiness it's not directed at you--this is us as a whole and that includes me.

I agree with you all the way up until the part where you think our problems can be solved through voting. There was a time when that was probably true. But like you have already pointed out, a large portion of the population is out of the game. (they don't vote, or participate politically...at all) and the majority of the remainder are Republicans or Democrats. Meaning (most) will only vote for their parties candidate. So then you only have two men (or women) that can possibly become President. (or a Senator or Representative or what have you). And in my opinion........both candidates are usually garbage.

This state is pretty much set. It is now the responsibility of the minority of Americans who are actually awake, aware, active...to do something about what is happening.

What is the something that must be done? Agitate the populace.

The minority isn't going to accomplish anything without the help of the majority. Shake them up. Wake them up. Make them angry. I mean, really angry. (which is really the only emotion you can activate that will achieve agitation)

Once agitated, once awake, their perception can be changed. What perception the majority currently has and what changes need to be made is a complicated discussion, and debatable. Regardless most can agree that the majority's perception is off.

Once agitated, and with their perception changed, they will become active. Once active....they will be allies for change.

That is the only way we can achieve an advantage over the powers that currently oppress us. And make no mistake, we are being oppressed, not only here...but the degradations pilled upon a great many people in other countries is beyond the limit of our experience or understanding.

I think I have shared enough of my views on these forums that some of you may have come to the conclusion that I am an extremist. But is not the natural reaction to an extreme situation an equal reaction? I am only as "extreme" as the times I find myself in. And who can say these are not extremely trying times? (only the delusional)


(Reader Please Note: I am not advocating any specific method of agitation. I have some ideas as to method but I am not putting those forth as my point at this time is not about method, or details, but of the value of the general idea.)
 
If you won't advocate for any specific forms of agitation, allow me;

Write- friends, family, colleagues, us here on the Farm, the newspaper, your congressman, senator and the president. Write blogs, graffiti, for the hell of and as if your country depends on it. Just doing that puts you firmly in the one percent of this country!

Make it hot for anyone fucking up or fucking off in government to get away with it. Make it impossible for elected officials to ignore their constituents.

Then, maybe your vote will have a chance to count for something worthwhile.
 
If you won't advocate for any specific forms of agitation, allow me;

Write- friends, family, colleagues, us here on the Farm, the newspaper, your congressman, senator and the president. Write blogs, graffiti, for the hell of and as if your country depends on it. Just doing that puts you firmly in the one percent of this country!

Make it hot for anyone fucking up or fucking off in government to get away with it. Make it impossible for elected officials to ignore their constituents.

Then, maybe your vote will have a chance to count for something worthwhile.

I agree that those are all valid and useful methods for agitation/awareness.
 
I agree with you all the way up until the part where you think our problems can be solved through voting. There was a time when that was probably true. But like you have already pointed out, a large portion of the population is out of the game. (they don't vote, or participate politically...at all) and the majority of the remainder are Republicans or Democrats. Meaning (most) will only vote for their parties candidate. So then you only have two men (or women) that can possibly become President. (or a Senator or Representative or what have you). And in my opinion........both candidates are usually garbage.

Nail on the head ..... both candidates are 90/100 times garbage - imo that is what has stopped people from voting because neither of the two are on your side , there on their side and even if they were say a good rep or good dem all they wind up doing is fighting against each other , " well i can't vote for this bill as i'm a democrat and its a republican bill ....needs to be numerous parties and not just 2 that only care about their own agenda's or their political contributors, letter's , blogs and all that sound great but do you wanna put yourself on the radar as a rebel or someone looking for a change when your not listening to there stupid rules anyway .... marijuana issues these days are insane are we run by a state or federal gov't as its been state legal in cali since 1995 why 1 set of rules for 1 state but not all states are we not 1 country or a bunch of individual states making there own laws .... i'm sure a few are saying there he goes again but the fact that I have to grow marijuana in fear while others can do it freely just don't sit well with me ...... I know this thread was not intended to discuss marijuana but jobs and what not but it is a mj forum after all.....

ask seamaiden how standing up for marijuana worked out for her.......
 
"It's true now." -Squiggly

We are both seeing the same thing, just in a different way, I think.

You are saying that 1. people need to vote 2. and vote correctly and this would solve (or work towards solving) "the problem". That, on the surface, is correct.

1. Many people do not vote. This is the current state. So to say, "It is true now." is correct in the way that you meant it...but is not how I look at it. If I were to make a similar statement it would be "It needs to become true, now." Though I will admit that the act of voting now (even by the minority) is not without value. It just isn't going to cause immediate change on a large scale. However, it is one of the acts that will lead to large scale change.

I will add that voting (and other political actions) by the minority will not lead to the large scale change that is needed. Essentially the political actions of the minority are only slowing down oppressive policy. So voting will not lead to the change sought even in an accumulative effect over time. Only with the majority activated will we succeed.

2. A great many people vote in ways that assure oppressive policy instead of counter-acting it. Again, this is the current state. The state of things must be altered in order to achieve your stated goal of change through political activity.
 
Nail on the head ..... both candidates are 90/100 times garbage - imo that is what has stopped people from voting because neither of the two are on your side , there on their side and even if they were say a good rep or good dem all they wind up doing is fighting against each other , " well i can't vote for this bill as i'm a democrat and its a republican bill ....needs to be numerous parties and not just 2 that only care about their own agenda's or their political contributors, letter's , blogs and all that sound great but do you wanna put yourself on the radar as a rebel or someone looking for a change when your not listening to there stupid rules anyway .... marijuana issues these days are insane are we run by a state or federal gov't as its been state legal in cali since 1995 why 1 set of rules for 1 state but not all states are we not 1 country or a bunch of individual states making there own laws .... i'm sure a few are saying there he goes again but the fact that I have to grow marijuana in fear while others can do it freely just don't sit well with me ...... I know this thread was not intended to discuss marijuana but jobs and what not but it is a mj forum after all.....

ask seamaiden how standing up for marijuana worked out for her.......[/quote]


"even if they were, say, a good rep or a good dem all they wind up doing is fighting each other": This is the problem of division which I have discussed before on the forums. Whether politicians, or the populace in general, even if you can activate them....they will be divided as to what action to take. (this is a result of disinformation campaigns which I have also discussed previously). This is what I mean when I say that once agitated their perception must then be altered. IE everyone needs to be informed and convinced of what is really happening so that we can reach an agreement on what to do about it.


"do you wanna put yourself on the radar as a rebel or someone looking for a change when your not listening to there stupid rules anyway": If change is to be achieved then, at least, a courageous few will have to risk much in the beginning. As others begin to act, the burden of risk can be shared with greater numbers.


"why 1 set of rules for 1 state but not all states are we not 1 country or a bunch of individual states making there own laws": That question has been at the center of who we are as a nation since the beginning. We have been arguing, and fighting, over it ever since. Don't think we are going to solve that one anytime soon. :)

" I know this thread was not intended to discuss marijuana but jobs and what not but it is a mj forum after all": I for one am happy to see your contribution. And I agree with you completely, this is an MJ forum after all.
 
Nail on the head ..... both candidates are 90/100 times garbage - imo that is what has stopped people from voting because neither of the two are on your side


The people have the ability to nominate and elect anyone they choose--they need only choose to do it and follow through.
 
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