Watts/lumens per square foot ?

ttystikk · May 9, 2012

El Cerebro said:
Ok sounds good, how about micromoles instead of lumens? That one's needed correction for a long time.

Agreed, although it might be hard for a lot of people on here to measure. So, if we can't take this measurement directly, how about we at least mention bulb size, type of reflector, and distance from the canopy. It would also be helpful to mention the square footage it's lighting.

El Cerebro · May 9, 2012

Yeah that makes sense. Fyi there are places on the web you can rent a quantum meter for cheap, I think they give you a week free to account for the shipping, prob some kind of deposit obviously (my setup hasn't been consistent enough to bother with it yet, but soon..)

ttystikk · May 9, 2012

El Cerebro said:
Yeah that makes sense. Fyi there are places on the web you can rent a quantum meter for cheap, I think they give you a week free to account for the shipping, prob some kind of deposit obviously (my setup hasn't been consistent enough to bother with it yet, but soon..)

Clearly, this is an instrument I'm going to have to buy in order to make decent measurements of my equipment in action.

El Cerebro · May 9, 2012

ttystikk said:
Clearly, this is an instrument I'm going to have to buy in order to make decent measurements of my equipment in action.

surprised a guy like you doesn't already have one. that's a compliment btw

hogan400 · May 9, 2012

I look at from 36" middle bulb to middle of bulb in a even row length wise overhead. 5 bulbs or 10k for roughly 14.5 ft of length. If I run 2 or 3 rows I make runs 44 inches wide but still maintain the 36" on the length side. Its def on the high end of lumens according to books from the 80's, 90's, and "sunlight supply". I like to think we farmers here are on the cutting edge, and learning new and better ways to maximize indoor crops constantly.:D

Vert is def a different animal, spacing along with strain, changes everything in measurements. but that 36" of overall penetration is the key, every time I set up a med patient or friend. You can even see on the boxes and inserts for mh and hps bulbs, after 30-36" the lumens drop massively.

El Cerebro · May 9, 2012

So what are opinions on penetration with 600s vert? Knock off another 12"? I don't want to give up the power of 1ks, but on the other hand can pack em in tighter without burning. Different animal indeed with all the reflected light (especially if you DW the walls/ceiling/floor with silver bubble). Trying to work out my best space vs light vs numbers thing, and just really like the minimalism of bare bulbs, so much less junk to buy and trip over. Staring at them kind of sucks compared to overhead though, but now there's no choice, gotta do both!

ttystikk · May 9, 2012

El Cerebro said:
surprised a guy like you doesn't already have one. that's a compliment btw

Thanks- truth is, I didn't know something like this existed at this price point. I definitely want one!

Texas Kid's watts/ft2 post really got me to thinking- I know, scary- about how low watts my setups are compared to his favorites. I did notice he never tried 130 watts per foot on anything larger than a 3x3! I did some measuring and the magnum xxxl ochos I'm running are too big to allow me to fit 10 in the room, so I'm stuck at 8 overhead. I know lots of people say the light spread is too much, but I see how effective they are. In time, I may drop some verts- likely 600s- to kick up the PAR down near the plants.

hogan400 · May 9, 2012

El cerebro, Speaking in lumens is the norm and also how manufact market their product unfortunately......also sunligt has a cheap lumen meter you can gather enough knowledge to make excellent decisions! Also milwaukee instruments, I have the waterproof one for measureing lumen applications underwater for my reef. 600's.. Thats a good question? I know that penetration is of "quality" up to 24" at most, however vert and side lighting can be tricky. Im working one garden Vert now but its all 1000"s. Are you straight vert or overhead too? Because thats a major consideration...

Again I tried 4x600 on a 4x8 for a total of 2400 watts and still my buddy with the 3x1000"s killed me. I have partners that wont budge off 600's and they get 1-1.25 per 600. In my opinion they are some of the best growers Ive seen, but one thing for sure, they use less electricity but still the lowers are only good for 2 feet and after that its "larf city". In my garden my lowers are where I noticed a huge increase in weight from the 6-1000. 30%+ in weight!

ttystikk, I live in the northwest and several close friends work for sunlight supply. You can call them and discuss reflector application with no stress as long as you dont straight up say you are medical. Over half the people working there are. Lol The Ochos cast a super wide pattern and are the shit over the botanicare tables for which they were designed. .

tconch · May 9, 2012

hogan400 said:
El cerebro, Speaking in lumens is the norm and also how manufact market their product unfortunately......also sunligt has a cheap lumen meter you can gather enough knowledge to make excellent decisions! Also milwaukee instruments, I have the waterproof one for measureing lumen applications underwater for my reef. 600's.. Thats a good question? I know that penetration is of "quality" up to 24" at most, however vert and side lighting can be tricky. Im working one garden Vert now but its all 1000"s. Are you straight vert or overhead too? Because thats a major consideration...

Again I tried 4x600 on a 4x8 for a total of 2400 watts and still my buddy with the 3x1000"s killed me. I have partners that wont budge off 600's and they get 1-1.25 per 600. In my opinion they are some of the best growers Ive seen, but one thing for sure, they use less electricity but still the lowers are only good for 2 feet and after that its "larf city". In my garden my lowers are where I noticed a huge increase in weight from the 6-1000. 30%+ in weight!

ttystikk, I live in the northwest and several close friends work for sunlight supply. You can call them and discuss reflector application with no stress as long as you dont straight up say you are medical. Over half the people working there are. Lol The Ochos cast a super wide pattern and are the shit over the botanicare tables for which they were designed. .

have you or your friends compared different bulbs same wattage or used dual-arcs?

hogan400 · May 9, 2012

Only in reef aquarium applications, we found most the accompanied literature to be pretty accurate about K and lumens. I figured on horticulture, since its all the same makers, i'd find the same results. I dindnt collect data either, since it was for personal. I did find that a few inexpensive bulbs performed well for my strains. I also found that some bulbs worked for some of my particular strains better than others. I found that funny, since its like that with soils, foods and temps....

I never used dual arcs but several of my partners did. Most were very happy and reported increases while one did not. This group owns several hydro shops and are always trying new shit they get to order from vendors.

El Cerebro · May 10, 2012

Hogan, right now I'm just vert 1ks, but thinking 600s will be nice when I mix. The overheads will prob be the 1ks I'm using now but in a wing, mh on top and hps vert to take advantage of various phototropic and reflective principles. If space was no issue, pretty sure it'd be 1ks all around and the slightly wider aisles. Oh, and the 600s would actually be run at 660 (lumatek twinhead 240s on super).

dankworth · May 10, 2012

Dude is it the dimmable dual 6 lumateks you found for that price? I thought it would be a knockoff brand.

El Cerebro · May 10, 2012

dankworth said:
Dude is it the dimmable dual 6 lumateks you found for that price? I thought it would be a knockoff brand.

Yup. The older ones are suspect, think those are what people had problems with. I'll give up my source once the cart is cleared and cc charged, so you bozos don't buy them all up before me!

neverhere · May 10, 2012

Texas Kid said:
I am sittin watchin this last round of plants just crawl along, not fattin up or finishin like I usually like so start thinkin about other current setups and past setups for answers. So I start figurin my watts per sq.ft on a bunch of my different setups and this what i got..

#1 setup is (2)600w over a 3x3 table or 1200w/ 9 sq.ft. = 133 watts per sq.ft. or 19,556 lumens/sq.ft. with this setup I can easily pull 3-3.25lbs from 9-16 plants on the 3x3.This is my all time favorite setup for yield, density, finish time, potency all that good stuff. Dual bulb hood used in a 3x3 Hydrohut tent.

#2 (1) 1000w over a 3x3 table or 1000w/ 9 sq.ft. = 111 watts per sq.ft. or 16,111 lumens per sq.ft. perfect for single bulb single hood setup and or in a tent.

#3 (3) 1000w over (2) 3x6 tables or 3000w / 32 sq.ft. = 83 watts per sq.ft. or 13,594 lumens per sq.ft.. This setup is on movers and does alright but could use another 1k to really kickit into gear, but overall decent.

#4 (1) 1000w over a 4x4 table or 1000w / 16 sq.ft. = 63 watts per sq.ft. or 9063 lumens per sq.ft. To me this setup is right at the edge of what you need to really kick it out like on a 3x3. I really like the 3x3 tables instead of the 4x4 all the way around.

#5 (2) 1000w over (2)3x6 and (2)3x3 or 2000w per 54 sq.ft. = 37 watts per sq.ft. or 5370 lumens per sq.ft.. This sucks bigtime, movers almost make it more painful because of the shadow dancin..lack of cash has dictated this setup but still it sucks.

#6 (3) 1000w over a 11x14 room on movers or 3000w / 154 sq.ft. or 19 watts per sq.ft. or 2825 lumens per sq.ft. this is at a buddy of mines and he is complaining about yield, density, and finish times. this setup is doin just well enough to piss you off, not really crawlin but not cruizin either. I am tryin to get 6-8k in there for he real kickin flower action.

So I was curious what everybody else was doin and experiencin..

The sun is roughly 100w per sq.ft. full tilt so that is my basic minimum benchmark for my indoor satisfaction..

Mo lumens, mo wattage, mo betta..

Tex

i find the results from number 1 to be very interesting. I was under the impression that with horizontal gardens the best one could achieve would be roughly maximum of 2-2.5 ounces per square ft. However in this claim apparently he got over 5 ounces per square ft.

Im having a hard time getting my head around that claim. Not calling him a liar or saying he is mistaken, just trying to understand. How to you fit over 5 ounces in a square foot. Has anyone come near those kind of results. Whats the best you guys can pull per square foot.

ttystikk · May 10, 2012

neverhere said:
i find the results from number 1 to be very interesting. I was under the impression that with horizontal gardens the best one could achieve would be roughly maximum of 2-2.5 ounces per square ft. However in this claim apparently he got over 5 ounces per square ft.

Im having a hard time getting my head around that claim. Not calling him a liar or saying he is mistaken, just trying to understand. How to you fit over 5 ounces in a square foot. Has anyone come near those kind of results. Whats the best you guys can pull per square foot.

You can get over 5 oz/sq.ft. when you're very, very good at what you do and you have all the parameters well dialed in; strain, training, nutes, environment... and of course lighting.

Resinable · May 10, 2012

Im having a hard time getting my head around that claim. Not calling him a liar or saying he is mistaken, just trying to understand. How to you fit over 5 ounces in a square foot. Has anyone come near those kind of results. Whats the best you guys can pull per square foot.

Yea those numbers (5 oz per sq ft.) are incredible. I was very very happy to get 18 lbs from 100 sq ft. which is about 2.88 oz per sq. ft; 5 oz. per would be 31.25 lbs from one hundred sq. ft! Texas Kid has credibility though so I don't dismiss it. When I got 2.88 per I could see there was still room for improvement . . .

Maybe 2.5 lbs per 1000 watts is the new standard (replacing two per) what with Capulator getting 5 from three sixes and Jackmayoffer hitting 2.4 per?

dankworth · May 10, 2012

neverhere said:
i find the results from number 1 to be very interesting. I was under the impression that with horizontal gardens the best one could achieve would be roughly maximum of 2-2.5 ounces per square ft. However in this claim apparently he got over 5 ounces per square ft.

Im having a hard time getting my head around that claim. Not calling him a liar or saying he is mistaken, just trying to understand. How to you fit over 5 ounces in a square foot. Has anyone come near those kind of results. Whats the best you guys can pull per square foot.

I saw a pic of his gig somewheres with the 5 oz/ft2. Like a skyscraper in principle it was as far as the distribution of weight.

Got to have those light values to get the bearing surface of the bottom of the colas to be chunky enough to have real weight, to the extent that 5 oz/ft2 is possible.

I will say that appropriate placement of reflective surfaces, and picking the right type of reflective surface is a quick way to increase gpw.

neverhere · May 14, 2012

thank you all for your responses. Looks like i was mistaken with my assumptions. Very excited to hear that there are growers that can use space with such efficiency.

Capulator · May 14, 2012

ttystikk said:
You can get over 5 oz/sq.ft. when you're very, very good at what you do and you have all the parameters well dialed in; strain, training, nutes, environment... and of course lighting.

STRAIN.

SSSSHHHHHHH!!!!

ttystikk · May 15, 2012

neverhere said:
thank you all for your responses. Looks like i was mistaken with my assumptions. Very excited to hear that there are growers that can use space with such efficiency.

Keep this firmly in mind; the 3x3 size is central to his ability to get such a number. I have never seen such a large result in terms of yield per square foot, and I harbor serious doubts about how well it can be scaled up. Multiplied? Perhaps...

Watts/lumens per square foot ?

Watts/lumens per square foot ?

ttystikk

El Cerebro

ttystikk

El Cerebro

hogan400

El Cerebro

ttystikk

hogan400

tconch

hogan400

El Cerebro

dankworth

El Cerebro

neverhere

ttystikk

Resinable

dankworth

neverhere

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

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