We need to unite

[putembk]

lmfao...thought the name of this thread was "we need to unite?. When it comes down to it all we are trying to do is survive in our own way. Guess you can't talk politics, religion or pot. I am disappointed that you have chosen to sell your product so cheep soco. It's a trend that you might not be able to reverse as costs and inflation rise. Maybe you could keep a couple of those BENJAMIN'S you were referring to if you held the line on your prices.

 

[true grit]

Its not a matter of perhaps could go either way, its a matter of the Fed flat out saying thats the difference between Cali and CO. Do you folks not think the Fed has their fingers in the biz here? I don't feel I'm anymore protected here, in fact i would prefer the lax patient guidelines/high numbers/shit tons of private warehouses and being able to sell back into the system in Cali.

Its the tremendous amount of regulations and guidelines (whether enforced or not) that CO has that is preventing much of the BS and harassment. Its a fake blanket that makes the rest of the country think its in check out here. And why Cali is amazed is cuz they cant get regs together.

Sky- what don't you believe? how many years into this system are we? they found the ways to go after MMC's and they have. Still in the guidelines? well you can pay and play the game. the problem of mmc's is about to be a thing of the past and the new "problem" is about to be legal retail to adults. The Fed is afraid of things like the state "opt-out" proposals. Fuck over one state that voted on it, get opt out passed and now you have more than a handful of states opting to do whatever the fuck they want and leading to a failure of federalism. I don't see any admit of defeat, just a realistic view of the "problem". They want to keep it in CO, and thats fine. Because while folks are bitching about patients, prices, MMC's being pissed, etc- every Coloradan can legally grow and smoke. Thats huge, and they know its like dominos.

 

[kolah]

WE need to unite?

I think it depends on who the "WE" is. As time goes on I think more battle lines will be drawn.

 

[fishwhistle]

Were quite happy the way things are here true,the problem arises when state law and federal law conflict and its just as conflicted in colorado as it is in california,i dont care how your regulations or constitution are written,they are not even admissable as evidence in federal court.Frankly i think its amazing that folks in colorado beleive its safer or that you are above it all and what is happening in cali could never happen there,its just not true,we are all as citizens of the united states subject to the exact same federal law,each and every one of us,no exceptions.I do beleive that with roughly 1/8th of the population of california you are less of a target for now but that can all change overnight.Until we all work together to change federal law we all have the same target on our backs.
The only way i see your argument working is for you to tell me colorado citizens are exempt from federal law?That would be cool beans wouldnt it!

 

[true grit]

Like I said, i'd def be all for the way Cali runs but in a business model, i would be worried out there. Here, not so much. I'm not saying we are exempt from anything or that it couldn't happen over nite. I'm saying whats happening in Cali and has been for years is not happening in CO, and its for the reasons I listed. The two systems are completely different and is the reason things are operating as they are here. By your logic, with 1/8 of the population of Cali we should be easier targets, except Fed says they won't waste resources if we are in state compliance. Once Cali has stricter means of state compliance, it will be that much harder for whats happening in Cali to happen.

 

[GR33NL3AF]

Don't you think that the demand for black market diminish with the legalization that is already here and common retail sales coming in 2014? That in itself will put significant pressure on product value and price on underground sales within Colorado. Every dollar sold in a retail store is a dollar not headed to the black market. There will be many millions sold retail. Caregivers went through this once already when med sales came online in 2010.

The times are changing. You have to look at what is coming down the line and adapt to the market. If I was a private grower, right now I would be lobbying hard for the ability to sell into the commercial market. That piece swept away in the med market, but maybe you can work to put it on the table for the retail sales legislation. Either that, or you can do nothing and just continue to hate on retail shops, like you hate on dispensaries now.

I dont hate on Dispensaries, I hate on the asshole broker that knows he has me over a barrel when its time to pay the electric bill...

 

[soserthc1]

We or should I say I do not consider myself part of a black market because the Fed gov't does not make a dime off of my non addictive , zero death yearly plants that I sell, give and smoke. If I felt I was a black market drug dealer I would have to say that all liquor stores are much worse than a black market as I have never seen a life ruined (besides fed's incarcerating) by smoking marijuana but have seen numerous lives (some family) ruined by alcohol . If we need to unite we need to respect the opinions of others and not attack with computer name calling as it really serves no purpose anyone can be a tough guy behind a computer screen Soco... jmho.... I respect the opinions of sky, fish , tg , and mostly everyone who says it respectfully if I do not I just agree to disagree ......name calling really serves no purpose

 

[NaturalTherapy]

The steam that blows the whistle never turns the wheel

 

[Melizzard]

Bans in Cripple Creek and Woodland Park too. Both medical AND recreational. SUX!!! Glad I have a caregiver instead! ;)

xxoo
Melissa
Anyone recognize the vape in my avatar? This was taken at a lake one afternoon. We vaped and the munks got the munchies. Pretty funny, huh?

In the end market quality will be dictated by the fickle consumer. As the prices continue to fall, consumers will be demanding better products at a lower price. When consumer retail hits there will likely be another significant price drop. I suspect that $100 quality ounces will be the norm at that point. With overhead involved, I don't see prices to go below that level, but who knows.

The bans I've seen are counties, excepting Fruita. Counties will continue to collect sales taxes made in the incorporated cities within their borders, so they really have nothing to loose. Major cities that implement bans will likely be overturned by citizen driven initiatives.

Local [and state] leadership is reluctant to endorse marijuana, so they implement bans to appease the prohibitionists. When the citizens overturn that decision, they can say "oh well, it wasn't us" and still get the sales tax benefits.

 

[outwest]

true grit - you nailed it. There is a perception of regulation and oversight in CO, that combined with the fact that its written into our constitution and a state license is required to smoke or grow it is also helping a lot in terms of keeping the Feds at bay.

outwest

 

[kolah]

Half of all MJ shops closed down in the Big CO:



“If the rules and regulations didn’t get them, piss-poor business planning did,” said K.C. Stark, a former dispensary owner who said he closed up shop in favor of advising those interested in joining the industry.

 

[kolah]

"Despite the overall reduction in the number of dispensaries, marijuana sales tax collections in December climbed 45.19 percent from a year earlier, to $98,153."

Interesting. ^ ...and of course we all know this is coming:

"Advocates say the lack of new entrants in the medical marijuana market is a sign that prospective entrepreneurs are holding off until Colorado begins allowing recreational marijuana sales in 2014.
“That’s when we’re going to see Green Rush 2.0,” Stark said.

Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/mmj-149929-shut-businesses.html#ixzz2IcLephCI

 

[fishwhistle]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-mendo-pot-20130122,0,4187262.story

 

[Dorje]

true grit - you nailed it. There is a perception of regulation and oversight in CO, that combined with the fact that its written into our constitution and a state license is required to smoke or grow it is also helping a lot in terms of keeping the Feds at bay.

outwest

For now.... I recently talked to a friend who knows the head of the MMED. The DEA knows all about the "mmj" being sold out the backdoor of MMCs and the fact that many MMCs are selling Cali outdoor.

There's so much corruption and so many idiots running MMCs that the DEA is not going to turn a blind eye for much longer. I'd expect some rounds of busts by the MMED/DEA soon.

 

[outwest]

For now.... I recently talked to a friend who knows the head of the MMED. The DEA knows all about the "mmj" being sold out the backdoor of MMCs and the fact that many MMCs are selling Cali outdoor.

There's so much corruption and so many idiots running MMCs that the DEA is not going to turn a blind eye for much longer. I'd expect some rounds of busts by the MMED/DEA soon.

You are referring to shops that are clearly not following state law.

outwest

 

[fishwhistle]

DEA could give 2 shits about state law,they enforce federal law and every dispensary in colorado is breaking it,State law or constitution be damned.No F'in way they can do it to cali (and other states)and not colorado which is why many of us are kinda shocked to hear how many of you beleive you are somehow protected or exempt from the same exact thing happening there that happens here.The state or local law enforcement almost never are the ones doing anything,why would they?No state laws are being broken,its always the feds.

 

[sky high]

The case in Cali where association = plant count shows well that all of this is an open ended gig in the eyes of the law. They know product is moving illegally and they also know that with every load moved these cats are digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves.

Fish....the FEDS have >extensive< info on every aspect of the lives of those who licensed >commercially< under 1284 here in CO....and whether these folks are actively growing/selling or not at present doesn't matter because they have proof of intent on many counts simply by holding signed State paperwork and cancelled checks for the license itself. Beyond that, just as they did in CA...the FED can do their "Math" and figure out how many plants you copped for on your license purchase(s) and multiple that by..say...4-5 X runs per year....over multiple years....and you can easily see how folks here could be facing the same Mandatory Minimum time in State Daycare that the G3 dude in Cali is facing. I am not up on the way CA licenses dispensaries or if a special license is needed...but I am guessing that it is less regulatory/harder to track in CA than it is here and THAT is why CALI is being hit first.

And with all due respect....rarely do the FEDS act alone. State law is blurred/ignored by State cops once the FEDS walk on the property and the armed forces become one and the same in focus and intent during most..if not all...investigations. It's an ugly thing....and that is what many folks have forgotten in all of this.

 

[bigwillis]

Hey Farmers, thank you for taking the time. I'm going to try this as its easy to fall off topic. Please email me directly at [email protected] if you are interested in expanding some of these ideas. I am in no way trying to bash MMCs. I accept what happened and wasn't really happy as it was a daily struggle between quality and quantity. I actually think Hemp is going to be a bigger and earth changing product. I'm really just trying to find like minded people to organize some kind of association. That has the ability to support cannabis/hemp farmers and that also carries a unified stance.

 

[bigwillis]

I threw out my email in the hopes of finding some of you that want to get out from behind the comp. and stop bitching. It seems like anytime a good and needed topic is put out there it almost always turns into a pissing match. There is always someone who has been in the game longer and played harder. We get it you been a player since you were conceived in yo mama's womb. Can we please focus on what we have in common. We are all growers and caregivers. We all care about what we do. Which is why I think dicks get whipped out by the 3rd or 4th post. We all need to continue to be compensated for what we do.
The ability to wholesale again would certainly be an equalizer and worth fighting for. Also the 5 patient limit seems arbitrary and makes no sense. Not that any of it really does I think we need to draw a line between the two markets. An MMC dumping there shit out the back for 1500- 2000 a lb. should have no effect on our market but it does. While an MMC is big and immobile, we are small and can always be on the move. Caregiver meetings in different locations every month? Roaming product menus? Legit and voluntary product testing? Holding onto elite cuts and only giving to other worthy growers? I don't know, but maybe if I or we keep tossing out ideas the golden nugget will appear.

 

[sky high]

IMO....now that the State has had a taste of drug profit, there is no way they are going to change the laws (either 1284 or 64) to open this up to >all< and try to keep track of tens of thousands of gardens. If you read the RS article fish posted you will see that the authors of this law had a very good idea/suspicion that the FEDS will never allow the retail side to fly. From my reading of the piece, it looks to me like the retail provision was purposely added...knowing full well it will be sacrificed....>>for the right to grow individually<<. The ONLY reason, it seems, that they put the retail side in the law was because ...as Vicente' said (paraphrased) "People don't like pot...but they do like better schools and services/etc...". I think it's plain to see that sticking all of that retail crap in there was merely a way to not have this whole thing hinge on "prohibition" and what stoners want ....and instead...to base it in something folks could all relate to....like serious funding for our schools.

The "Golden Nugget", IMO....will more than likely never hinge on grouping up and will more than likely hinge on (the same as it ever was) building your own network. MMC's may be big and immobile but if they are allowed to stand long term and morph into this "recreational" model folks will know where to go for weed. We...as small timers/CG's with excess product may be mobile...but we will always be limited by how many people we can attract/know and meet "somewhere" to take care of biz. MOST people in our society go for convenience and some slight modicum of quality and will head for the place they know is open where they can make a legal purchase under the law rather than driving around looking for "their guy" standing on a corner somewhere selling bags as once happened when that guy was the only game in town.

i like your thinking bigwillis....don't get me wrong.....but IMO...the days of standing tall and pushing back against the retail/tax model are long gone. The cat was out of the bag when 1284 was cooked up/passed by something other than a vote of the People....and this game...if the FEDS allow it to be played at all...is just more of the same.