What Are You Running In Your Top Off Res?

[RoeBuck]

I'm curious to know how others are managing their top off reservoirs? I believe that UC recommends running the same strength as your system but I've never been able to go that high without my system ppm going up. Right now my system is running at about 4.75 ml A & B per gallon. I've been mixing my top off at about 1.25 ml of each. I set the pH of the top off at right about 6. Using this setup my system runs pretty stable on both pH and ppm. I've only been using base nutes in my top off. Do any of you add any supplements to your top offs?

 

[Junk]

I've seen it done two ways...

Just adding water. What I've seen though is if you have a real strong pump, adding water mixes up all the solids that settle at the bottom of the bucket. Then the plant will start to droop/look try, even though it's sitting in water. Because the salt has built up too much, & the salt is drawing water away from the plant. To be clear, I've not looked into this, it's what I was told by another hydro guy (who really knows his stuff) I had a similar problem, & the flush cleared it up per his instructions.

I just moved to a res. What I've been doing is mixing my nutes in gallon containers & topping off with that. So the solution mix is constant. It brings the PH back down, & my nute levels stay the same. With the res, though, top offs are easy, cleaning can be a b*

 

[RoeBuck]

I agree, the top off res makes things easy. It took some trial and error, but running the res at 1/4 the system strength seems to be working pretty well.

I haven't had any salt issues yet, even going 3 weeks between changes. I am using H&Gs Drip Clean, which is supposed to help keep salts from forming and seems to be working as advertised. I do have some deposits above the water line, but nothing heavy.

 

[ken dog]

I don't do PPM's, I do ec.

I run my top off res at .1, or .2 ec above my system ec.
This is an attempt to dose my system to make up for the nutrients that the plants have already consumed...to keep the target ec the same for that week.

I set my PH @ 5.8 on my top off res... Which hopefully drops the pH from the naturally occurring rise in pH that happens in the system during the week.

 

[Junk]

I don't do PPM's, I do ec.

I run my top off res at .1, or .2 ec above my system ec.
This is an attempt to dose my system to make up for the nutrients that the plants have already consumed...to keep the target ec the same for that week.

I set my PH @ 5.8 on my top off res... Which hopefully drops the pH from the naturally occurring rise in pH that happens in the system during the week.

Excellent, maybe you can explain the EC practice then.

Do I have it right, that EC is close to (number wise) double your PPM's? So 500ppm would be an EC of approximately 1?

Because if so, running EC 's of 1.3 etc seems very low to me. Right now I'm at 1650 ppm & the plants are loving it. Even the light feeder is doing well. That would be an EC of 3.3 or thereabouts, no? But I never read about people going that high.

I don't understand the point of using EC as a measurement device? Can you explain that?

Like, I could make the EC (I think?) say, 2.0 But really the plant cares more about what is making up that 2.0, doesn't it? If you are in flower & still pumping the plants full of N but little P or K, you could reach an EC of 2.0. But it's the wrong nutrient balance...

So i don't get why EC is used? If someone can explain it, I want to learn. (or my lazy behind could research it)

 

[ken dog]

The problem with using PPM's, is that some people use the 500 scale and some people use the 700 scale.

With ec, it is always the same scale, so you know what people are talking about.

 

[Junk]

The problem with using PPM's, is that some people use the 500 scale and some people use the 700 scale.

With ec, it is always the same scale, so you know what people are talking about.

You know what the EC is...but you have no idea what ppm of which nute you are running. If you post the scale you are using, wouldn't the ppm of the individual parts of the recipe be more helpful?

This is a cut & paste

Manufacturer Scale
Advanced Nutrients 700 scale

Botanicare 700 scale

CES/Cutting Edge Solutions 500 scale

Dutch Master 500 scale
Dyna-Gro 500 scale

FoxFarm 700 scale using dechlorinated tap water

General Hydroponics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

General Organics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

House & Garden 700 scale

Humboldt Nutrients 500 scale
Hydro Organics/Earth Juice 500 scale Nectar for the Gods 700 scale
Rock Nutrients 700 scale
Roots Organics 500 scale
Soul Synthetics 500 scale

Technaflora 500 scale


Also handy is this PPM conversion chart:

I use GH & RO water, so I'm on the 500 scale. & at 1650 ppm, I have an EC of about 3.3 which seems high. I don't recall reading other peoples recipes with EC that high.

But my main point, is that unless you give the EC for each nutrient, telling us what EC you are at isn't very helpful. It just tells you the cumulative total. I don't recall anyone ever posting a recipe for hydro with the EC for each part...just the total EC. That's what I don't get.

 

[ken dog]

EC and PPM's are the same thing, just expressed differently...EC is expressed on one single scale, & PPM's are expressed on the 500 and 700 scale.

Unless the person specifies which scale they are using, reporting PPMs can be confusing.

 

[Junk]

I think I'm typing too much, but I also apologize if I'm being thick headed...

Why don't people post their individual EC's in their recipes? E.G. I run 12.5 ml (per two gallons) of GH Armour SI, which equals (if i recall correctly) 90 ppm or so. GH & RO = 500 scale, so that is an EC of approximately .18 However, I never see recipes given out that way. For example:

Step 1. 2 gallons RO water
Step 2. GH Armour SI to .18 EC
Step 3. GH Micro to 1.6 EC

I don't ever see the above. I'll see it in ml, or ppm.

See this? "If you are reading from a book that says you should grow your crop at 1100ppm - how do you know which scale the writer is referring to?"

That is the question you are answering. I understand that.

What I'm saying is, I don't ever see anyone post the recipes in anything except ppm or ml. They might give you a total...say an EC of 1.8, but they don't break the ingredients down in EC...

So, if EC is a better standard (I agree that it is) why aren't people posting that as the unit measure for the individual parts of the nute recipe?

The question might not have an answer...or the answer might be, "That's just how it's always been done."

I'm just curious what you think about that question...if it seems like I'm hassling you, that's not my intention. I'm genuinely curious...

Here is what I mean...

At about 1:25 (& throughout the video) they tell you what they are running the EC at. That doesn't give me any info except the total ppm. (If I knew what scale they were on, I see that point) They tell you the NPK ratio they run at various stages, & total EC. However, that isn't the full story of what they are giving that plant for nutes.

Maybe that is the answer, people just don't want to give out their recipes...

 

[ken dog]

If they give you the ratio, and the total EC, then it is a simple matter for you to mix together the ratio, and measure the EC.

If the ratio is one to one, then mix together 10 milliliters of one, and 10 milliliters of the other In any given quantity of water... say, 1 gallon... Then measure the EC.
If the EC is lower than your target EC, simply add more of each, until you reach your target... When you get closer, add less of each until you reach your target EC.

 

[ken dog]

If you are saying that they are running other additives besides the NPK ratios that they are giving out, then yes, those are kept secret unless they give them out.

 

[RoeBuck]

I don't do PPM's, I do ec.

I run my top off res at .1, or .2 ec above my system ec.
This is an attempt to dose my system to make up for the nutrients that the plants have already consumed...to keep the target ec the same for that week.

I set my PH @ 5.8 on my top off res... Which hopefully drops the pH from the naturally occurring rise in pH that happens in the system during the week.

Thanks, much appreciated. That's what I've been trying to do, use the top off to balance the nutes and ph in the system. I keep a nice ph range but am not feeding at the heavy rates I see some here are. I'm just curious to compare what I'm doing to what others are.

 

[ken dog]

Yeah... I'm on the lower end myself... I'm at .6 ec in week 4 of flower... Probably won't go any higher than .9 ec.

 

[RoeBuck]

Yeah... I'm on the lower end myself... I'm at .6 ec in week 4 of flower... Probably won't go any higher than .9 ec.

Interesting. I'm on week 3 of flower and am at 1.0 in one system and 1.1 in the other. Pretty much following H&Gs schedule and what I see the plants doing. Different strains.

 

[ken dog]

I'm running the current culture supercharged schedule... And I'm running OG Kush, which really doesn't like to be pushed very hard.
That said, I'm running 12 different bottles of nutrients each week.
Quite a few of them don't raise the ec a bit.

 

[RoeBuck]

I'm running the current culture supercharged schedule... And I'm running OG Kush, which really doesn't like to be pushed very hard.
That said, I'm running 12 different bottles of nutrients each week.
Quite a few of them don't raise the ec a bit.

I'll try their nutes at some point but for now I'm content to stay with H&G while I continue to learn. Once I feel more confident that I understand growing this way I'll branch out. Their tech support has been great and were very helpful in my understanding of growing in these systems. After years of dirt, hydro has been quite the experience. But I love learning. Made me a better grower.

 

[ken dog]

I'll try their nutes at some point but for now I'm content to stay with H&G while I continue to learn. Once I feel more confident that I understand growing this way I'll branch out. Their tech support has been great and were very helpful in my understanding of growing in these systems. After years of dirt, hydro has been quite the experience. But I love learning. Made me a better grower.

I love learning too.:)

I am actually using the full Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur line, but I'm using the current culture supercharged schedule, regarding co2 levels, temperature/humidity, pH levels, that sort of thing.
I add everything to my top off reservoir, except for the Rhino skin and Bud Factor X, as they both contain silica, and don't mix well in a top off res.( it reacts with other nutrients to form a brown sludge.), It is best to mix them up in RO water and add them slowly to the system reservoir itself.

 

[RoeBuck]

I love learning too.:)

I am actually using the full Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur line, but I'm using the current culture supercharged schedule, regarding co2 levels, temperature/humidity, pH levels, that sort of thing.
I add everything to my top off reservoir, except for the Rhino skin and Bud Factor X, as they both contain silica, and don't mix well in a top off res.( it reacts with other nutrients to form a brown sludge.), It is best to mix them up in RO water and add them slowly to the system reservoir itself.

I'm running as close to their supercharged schedule as I can given some heat issues. Thankfully outdoor temps are coming down. I underestimated on how much A/C I'd need but until after this grow, I've got to make do. Once I add a second unit I'll be back to my closed environment with co2 and can follow the schedule again.

I can see I need to adjust how I've been thinking about the top off res. I've been thinking of it as a supplement instead of part of the whole system.

I just got some slime and the only difference is that I ran out of GH pH Down and used some Earth Juice I had. GH should be here Monday.