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what is your favorite ballast

  • Thread starter Thread starter topcat76239
  • Start date Start date Jan 29, 2011
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what is your favorite ballast

topcat76239 Jan 29, 2011 55 Replies 14,784 Views
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nangonug

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#41
ttystikk said:
Hmmm... this is the first time I've heard of coil degradation on a magnetic ballast. How does one test for that? What's the fix- and the cost?

If forced to go digital, I will admit that Solis Tek sure looks appealing, although so did Lumatek and Quantum when they first came out.

On some things, I'm excited about being an early adopter. But, when it comes to high power equipment- and in my little world that means anything much over 400 watts, lol- I suddenly want the most tried, true, reliable, proven gear I can lay my hands on, and this goes triple when I'm dealing with used parts.
Click to expand...

Well one can test by measuring resistance through the transformer or measuring light loss over time. The fix is to replace the ballast or use modern tecnology that is more efficent and dose not degrade over time. At the heart of that ballast is a coper wound transformer. First off this was more then likely wound by a worker in some dark factory in China or the like. The initial problem is that one may have 2500 wrap's. the next one may have 2463, The next one 2599 and so on. These may all fall with in what's acceptable but will cause a slightly different voltage from each one. Second as the copper wire heats and cools with each start and stop the wire will over time break down and resistance will increae through the circut causing a drop in output over time. This is a well known fact about transformers. There is the inductive load problem as well. Any fan motor or coper wound transformer cause an inductive load. The more inductive load on a curcut the higher the difference between actual and apparent power. This is measured as a power factor. If your running a few then no big deal but start to add many and it will cause you to have a higher power bill. Many power meters read this load as an increase in power use and you will be paying for apparent power use not actual power used. If the diffenence is to much you can put a large capacitor in line and help with the correction. This is a simple explination but hopefully you get the idea. I spent years in college learning all about these things and even got a pretty thing to hang on the wall to prove it. Anyway , This is why magnetic ballests loose efficency over time. So the first time you plug a magnetic ballest into the wall it most likely at the brightest is will ever be, the best you can get for output. You can measure this by measuring the light output from the ballast and then mesuring this same ballast with the same lamp ( you would have to take a control lamp out of rotation and follow standard startup time and warm up period as well) several years later. You will have a measurable decrease in your light (lumans/lux) . You will not have this light loss over time with a digital ballast. And the digital ballast should not cause much of a difference between actual and apparent power. There's other factors to consider but from my experience the newer gerneration of digitals are sound. With the warrenties being offered with them you can't really go wrong with any of them. I tryed and was frustrated with many of the older one, especially the lumatek's but they have improved over time. Just be sure and do your home work. Most shops around me are still trying to get 350 plus for a thousand. Deffenetly sould be able to find them in the mid 250 275 range if your good at shopping. If you are planing to go horizantal open lamp I would seriously consider the new gavita 1000 watt pro. I will be trying a few out if I can ever catch them while there in stock. There digital, adjustible voltage,ballast that use a 400v philips lamp that has only 5% (claimed not tested by me yet) loss of lumins over a year. This is a big advantage in and of it's self. If your using the current lamps we lose that much and more after the first month of use. That's a big diffence if that's actually true! Thats like putting new lamps in once a month. I got to admit those solis-tec matrix ballast's look very interesting as well. Soft start so no power spike on a comercial meter can be a HUGE difference for the big warehouse guy's. Don't know how much it would help a small med grower like me though. I'm very happy with the lumatek's and know several big time guys that use them too. Now if those plasma lights would get down to an affordable price. I sure would like to try a few out for veg. Around a thousand bucks to replace a 10 to 12 bank t'5 light set up. Getting close, but still a bit to steep for me. It's hard to believe anything thats put out and advertised about most things related. Untill I've actually seen and or saw them in use and working as discribed, I remain optimisticly skeptical. I hate to say it but I have fallen prey to the latest and greatest a couple times . Maybe this one will be the one that measures up. Hope this began to answer your question about how a magnetic ballest will degrade over time. It's never easy to make decisions and it gets even harder when we are constently bombarded with hype. Digitals have come of age and I would hope will only continue to evolve for the better. Peace
 
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ttystikk

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#42
Nangonug, thank you for the primer on magnetic ballast degradation! Seriously, when I got back into this hobby I had no idea I would learn so much about biology, chemistry, physics, engineering and electronics.

"Optimistically skeptical" is exactly my attitude about much of the new gear currently becoming available or on the near term horizon. That and "poverty stricken" sum up my approach to buying and utilizing gear up until now!

My local grow store has the Gavita Pro 1000 DE in stock, and it definitely loooks like a winner- except for the fact that I'm stuck with their idea of a reflector. If they come up with a sealed and vented version, I will definitely take a closer look. One wonders if these bulbs work with any digital ballast, or is the Gavita the only one what will properly fire and run it? I'm suddenly having wet dreams about a Solis-Tek ballast running a Philips 1000 DE in a custom vented hood...

I want a Lamborghini Gallardo, too, while we're dreaming... black, superleggera... lol
 
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Aerojoe

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#43
ttystikk said:
Nangonug, thank you for the primer on magnetic ballast degradation! Seriously, when I got back into this hobby I had no idea I would learn so much about biology, chemistry, physics, engineering and electronics.

"Optimistically skeptical" is exactly my attitude about much of the new gear currently becoming available or on the near term horizon. That and "poverty stricken" sum up my approach to buying and utilizing gear up until now!

My local grow store has the Gavita Pro 1000 DE in stock, and it definitely loooks like a winner- except for the fact that I'm stuck with their idea of a reflector. If they come up with a sealed and vented version, I will definitely take a closer look. One wonders if these bulbs work with any digital ballast, or is the Gavita the only one what will properly fire and run it? I'm suddenly having wet dreams about a Solis-Tek ballast running a Philips 1000 DE in a custom vented hood...

I want a Lamborghini Gallardo, too, while we're dreaming... black, superleggera... lol
Click to expand...
unfortunately the solis-tek+gavita pro 1000 DE is physically impossible because DE=double ended bulb, but we can dream right? I also wish they would make a vented hood, there is a remote ballast version of the gavita ballast that will run w/ our current hoods, but if it's single ended running standard bulbs will they still have the claimed 5 percent max loss of par? as well as the overall increase in lumens/par?
 
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ttystikk

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#44
Aerojoe said:
unfortunately the solis-tek+gavita pro 1000 DE is physically impossible because DE=double ended bulb, but we can dream right? I also wish they would make a vented hood, there is a remote ballast version of the gavita ballast that will run w/ our current hoods, but if it's single ended running standard bulbs will they still have the claimed 5 percent max loss of par? as well as the overall increase in lumens/par?
Click to expand...

It's only a long shot if Gavita's ballast and Solis Tek's ballast differ in their output in some fundamental way, like different line voltage. The double ended bulb thing is just a socket issue. If the ballasts' output is similar, then I see no reason why some skillful kitbashing couldn't lead to some interesting results...

McGuyver was Scottish too, ya know, laddie!
 
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Aerojoe

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#45
ttystikk said:
It's only a long shot if Gavita's ballast and Solis Tek's ballast differ in their output in some fundamental way, like different line voltage. The double ended bulb thing is just a socket issue. If the ballasts' output is similar, then I see no reason why some skillful kitbashing couldn't lead to some interesting results...

McGuyver was Scottish too, ya know, laddie!
Click to expand...
I'd be down to test out the new Magnum xxl DE vented hoods!! angus mcguyver!
 
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nangonug

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#46
ttystikk said:
It's only a long shot if Gavita's ballast and Solis Tek's ballast differ in their output in some fundamental way, like different line voltage. The double ended bulb thing is just a socket issue. If the ballasts' output is similar, then I see no reason why some skillful kitbashing couldn't lead to some interesting results...

McGuyver was Scottish too, ya know, laddie!
Click to expand...
Not capitable. The Gavita's are a 400volt lamp while all other current ballast's are operating at 250volts at the lamp. Also aircooling the lamp decreasses its efficiency as will as the glass. So far the real world feed back on the hoods have been very encourging. I'm with you on the poverty stricken part also tystick... Peace
 
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ttystikk

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#47
nangonug said:
Not capitable. The Gavita's are a 400volt lamp while all other current ballast's are operating at 250volts at the lamp. Also aircooling the lamp decreasses its efficiency as will as the glass. So far the real world feed back on the hoods have been very encourging. I'm with you on the poverty stricken part also tystick... Peace
Click to expand...

I will agree with you that a sealed glass fixture would reduce the efficiency of the lamp somewhat, but I disagree that aircooling reduces efficiency. The manufacturers have made it clear that the bulb has to get very cold- on the order of using freezing temperatures, blown at high speeds- for efficiency to suffer.

Okay, so no Solis Tek ballast- but I bet a custom hood is still possible. Would it be quite as efficient as the open hood? Maybe not, but it would still be a performance improvement over current sealed hoods, and the advantage of longer life would also remain. The reason I use sealed hoods is to save on the costs of cooling a bare bulb in a sealed room- on balance, I still think I'd come out ahead.
 
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ttystikk

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#48
Option B; use the open hood remote ballast version and run it on my light rotator, lol

Built my own light rotator- wanna see?
 
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whazzup

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#49
ttystikk said:
I will agree with you that a sealed glass fixture would reduce the efficiency of the lamp somewhat, but I disagree that aircooling reduces efficiency. The manufacturers have made it clear that the bulb has to get very cold- on the order of using freezing temperatures, blown at high speeds- for efficiency to suffer.
Click to expand...
I respectfully disagree with that. That depends on the lamp and its purpose. If you air cool a 400V double ended philips lamp you will lose 10-20% light just by cooling it, not even taken into account the losses from the glass. Street lamps are in closed fixtures and get very hot indeed when running. In the 1000W fixtures of some of our competitors in the horticultural market they even clip small reflectors on the lamp to keep the burners at the right temperature.

I totally agree with nangonug that you should be skeptical about what any ballast or fixture manufacturer is telling you. Most of them do not even have the equipment to test their lamps or ballasts for efficacy and ppf.

The only thing I can tell you is that Gavita does have its own certified light lab and facilities to do those tests, as we have been doing that over the last 30 years for the horticultural industry. For any greenhouse project we first do a light calculation for guaranteed light levels and uniformity. Later, when this is all installed, it is measured to make sure that what we calculated is really what you get. If we were not able to do so we would be completely out of business already years ago ;).

Do not believe everything that is published on the internet (that includes what I say about these matters). Your own experience and results and those of your peers are always the best reference.
 
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ttystikk

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#50
Yeah, wrote that two weeks ago, before we started this Proline DE conversation. What you say makes sense now, but I can't take the old words back. ..and I have to laugh and wonder at the guy who spins his rotators at 30rpm?? He says the bulbs stay cool enough to touch! https://lifelightsystems.com/
 
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outwest

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#51
Wow. Dueling Yoda avatars. Where's crom when you need him?

outwest
 
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Venom818

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#52
solis-tek here and loving them even more than the quantums
 
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KitsapGrapeApe

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#53
Venom818 said:
solis-tek here and loving them even more than the quantums
Click to expand...
it was lumateks and nothing else for me till i saw the solis-teks and got knowledge about what they do, now i'll pick a solis-tek first lumatek second, any body using the matrix ballast yet?
 
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smartcalyx

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#54
im currently running mags and digis. mags are the shit, just a little louder and slightly hotter. both my lumateks 600s(new ones w/o fans) actually run hotter than my mag 1000w mh. ive got a 600w galaxy that im probably most impressed with. coolest/quietest/smallest of all of them. only been running the digis a few months though, so we shall see. ive been stuck on mags til recently. just picked up 2 phantom 1000w plugged one into my reflector with the 1000w bulb that was plugged into the mag ballast and the bulb wouldnt fire? plugged the mag back in and it worked fine. are phantoms not compatible with all bulbs and/or reflectors?
 
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5ecret 5quirrel

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#55
IMHO coil/digi ballast is totally old tech and i see the same crap with different labels to attract consumers. I got some dude in guano zhou to whip up 15 digi ballast for 50 bucks each and they hang right next to my lumatek ballast and i can’t tell the difference from performance.

Don’t be fooled by stickers with new this and high tech that or some dog and pony show. Any ballast that makes it through american quality control is plenty fine. I would just go for the cheapest with a warranty. Just a bunch of old ladies sitting around a concrete room under florescent lights constructing these things and they call them phantoms! Lumatek! Matrix! it’s an aluminum case with resistors inside . . .
 
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pepperpanic

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#56
So, it looks like Solis Tech won!
 
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Started Jan 29, 2011
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Forum Growroom Design & Setup

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