What PH for HGV Nutrient Salts?

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markcannabinhumanoid

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Hi, I'm using HGV salts and on their schedule it recommends a PH of 5.7 and EC of 3.0. And that's what I've kept it at pretty much exactly and I'm at week 5 now. My problem is that my plants now how deficiencies. I adding other nutrients like potassium and phosphorus, mainly from Big Bug and Carboload. So it might be a Magnesium/Calcium deficiency, as my PH is very low and my nutrients probably don't supply it enough. About half my buds aren't growing or gaining any sort of mass, they are still nearly perfect in quality, beautiful-white without any sort of damage. But the leaves in the upper part of the plants are now yellow and browning in spots. So it's clear my plants have some form of deficiency which has stunted their growth pretty bad. How would I heal my plants in this stage? Should I increase PH for the Magnesium, or would that harm the plants. A buddy told me that higher PH with salts can damage roots and stunt growth even more. So my only other options is doing a flush with AN Revive, to supply the plant with Magnesium/Calcium. What do you guys think? Any kind of advice would help me at this point because I'm at a loss.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Hi, I'm using HGV salts and on their schedule it recommends a PH of 5.7 and EC of 3.0. And that's what I've kept it at pretty much exactly and I'm at week 5 now. My problem is that my plants now how deficiencies. I adding other nutrients like potassium and phosphorus, mainly from Big Bug and Carboload. So it might be a Magnesium/Calcium deficiency, as my PH is very low and my nutrients probably don't supply it enough. About half my buds aren't growing or gaining any sort of mass, they are still nearly perfect in quality, beautiful-white without any sort of damage. But the leaves in the upper part of the plants are now yellow and browning in spots. So it's clear my plants have some form of deficiency which has stunted their growth pretty bad. How would I heal my plants in this stage? Should I increase PH for the Magnesium, or would that harm the plants. A buddy told me that higher PH with salts can damage roots and stunt growth even more. So my only other options is doing a flush with AN Revive, to supply the plant with Magnesium/Calcium. What do you guys think? Any kind of advice would help me at this point because I'm at a loss.
You are waaaay over feeding. Over 3x too much.

Cant say much without a picture to see the symptoms
 
M

markcannabinhumanoid

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You are waaaay over feeding. Over 3x too much.

Cant say much without a picture to see the symptoms
Overfeeding in what way? My EC/PPM is too high? Or am I overwatering? I don't know how to upload my own pics, but they look like your usual yellowing with brown spots and drying out. As for the feed, I'm using their recommended which is 4.2base/7flower grams per gallon. 3 ml/g of carboload and 5 ml/g of big bud.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Overfeeding in what way? My EC/PPM is too high? Or am I overwatering? I don't know how to upload my own pics, but they look like your usual yellowing with brown spots and drying out. As for the feed, I'm using their recommended which is 4.2base/7flower grams per gallon. 3 ml/g of carboload and 5 ml/g of big bud.
EC is way to high. I can’t say much without pics.
 
Aqua Man

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Aquaman that is what they are trying to tell everyone. It is very similar to Athena both want you to running there products at 3.0 in drain to waste
I know you have or used to run Athena… what did you find? To me the numbers are absurd unless you have almost no transpiration
 
Anthem

Anthem

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I know you have or used to run Athena… what did you find? To me the numbers are absurd unless you have almost no transpiration
Aqua Man I heard a podcast with the market director for Athena and he was bagging on AN about how they intentionally leave stuff out of the base to get people to buy the snake oil stuff. I think both Athena and HGV are d dioing the same thing by wanting such a high EC. For me anything over about 1000 PPM or an EC of 2.0 it just a waste. I like right around 960 on the .5 scale.
 
Aqua Man

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Aqua Man I heard a podcast with the market director for Athena and he was bagging on AN about how they intentionally leave stuff out of the base to get people to buy the snake oil stuff. I think both Athena and HGV are d dioing the same thing by wanting such a high EC. For me anything over about 1000 PPM or an EC of 2.0 it just a waste. I like right around 960 on the .5 scale.
Yeah nutrients are nutrients… a nitrate is a nitrate no matter how you try to spin it
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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Aqua Man I heard a podcast with the market director for Athena and he was bagging on AN about how they intentionally leave stuff out of the base to get people to buy the snake oil stuff. I think both Athena and HGV are d dioing the same thing by wanting such a high EC. For me anything over about 1000 PPM or an EC of 2.0 it just a waste. I like right around 960 on the .5 scale.
No I don't think so thats the case with Athena or HGV, not all formulas are build the same, Jacks etc are one way and Athena HGV would be another. There built different ratio wise N to Ca to K
you can run higher N closer to K or lower N and higher K. one will require you to have a lower EC and one will run a higher EC. its 2 different ways of a skinning a cat. but in the end in tissue sample, they both produce the same outcome HGV and Athena are meant to run at higher EC.
 
Aqua Man

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No I don't think so thats the case with Athena or HGV, not all formulas are build the same, Jacks etc are one way and Athena HGV would be another. There built different ratio wise N to Ca to K
you can run higher N closer to K or lower N and higher K. one will require you to have a lower EC and one will run a higher EC. its 2 different ways of a skinning a cat. but in the end in tissue sample, they both produce the same outcome HGV and Athena are meant to run at higher EC.
And the amount of additives or organics can also lead to running a higher ppm… but in most nutrients thats not really seen. More in a line of nutrients with many additives like silica, humics, fulvics etc
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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Yeah nutrients are nutrients… a nitrate is a nitrate no matter how you try to spin it
yes but the amount of nitrate in the formula is going to set a lot of other factors and have a effect on ratio's, which in turn will have an effect on EC, to supply the plants with the ratio's needed to have idea tissue amounts
 
Aqua Man

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@Dr.Green55 i understand what you mean i think. Its depends on the ratios ised as they will greatly effect availability.

Like N equal to Ca, Mg half of Ca, K twice N, P half of N sorta thing
 
Aqua Man

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Basically considering the anion to cation ratio and effects associated like explained by mulders chart. Can lead to a various range of effective EC.

Or an I misinterpreting
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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@Dr.Green55 i understand what you mean i think. Its depends on the ratios ised as they will greatly effect availability.

Like N equal to Ca, Mg half of Ca, K twice N, P half of N sorta thing
Yes so if your solution runs higher N that mean inherently you will have higher uptake of water in the plants that water will carry Ca which means your N to Ca will be closer to 1:1 K mg etc will be set of that , if you run lower N you wil not have the amount of water uptake so you'll need to run higher Ca , then K Mg etc gets set of that, Athena runs low N middle to low Ca High K etc so to get that to have the plant to have the idea amounts on nutrients in it, it runs at a high EC
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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Basically considering the anion to cation ratio and effects associated like explained by mulders chart. Can lead to a various range of effective EC.

Or an I misinterpreting
No your right you can have 2 widely different solution with different ratio's but supplies at the right EC , which will be vastly different , will have the same outcome when tissue sampling the plants
 
Aqua Man

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Yes so if your solution runs higher N that mean inherently you will have higher uptake of water in the plants that water will carry Ca which means your N to Ca will be closer to 1:1 K mg etc will be set of that , if you run lower N you wil not have the amount of water uptake so you'll need to run higher Ca , then K Mg etc gets set of that, Athena runs low N middle to low Ca High K etc so to get that to have the plant to have the idea amounts on nutrients in it, it runs at a high EC
This is something i have rarely considered unless diagnosing an issue. Thats not a good thing and i should probably be paying more attention to this than i have previously
 
Aqua Man

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No your right you can have 2 widely different solution with different ratio's but supplies at the right EC , which will be vastly different , will have the same outcome when tissue sampling the plants
Ibhave just started looking for a way to do this realiably at home not but a week ago… its not cheap but would allow real time adjustments at home… thoughts in these devices?

 
Aqua Man

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Testing older, middle and new growth to see the differences in usage and storage area. This can tell you what the plants are in terms of demands for new growth and show a deficiency before it can manifest itself physically. This way you can optimize ratios per genetic and per stage if growth
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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The first thing people (New Growers) need to understand is that all these bottle nutes etc Jacks , HGV Athena are really one size fits all, and you the grower do not dictate how your plants like there food and the ratio's they eat it at, that is set by many other factors lighting intensity, LED vs HPS temps RH, rate of water uptake etc etc, so when using these products they will works differently for everyone, so your really trying to find the point that it works best for you, and that will mean different EC etc for everyone, but its so, that different ratio's will require a high EC to get proper uptake IE. HGV Athena

@Aqua Man I have never used those so I'm not sure there accuracy or how good they are.

If I was going to build a solution that had to be spot on for my setup there is really only one way I know how to do it, and thats water analysis and tissue samples, I'd start by setting my N to the amount of light temps ,C02 etc then set the ratio of Ca off that, a little under or over N ,if over you will most like not see N tox, to much Ca you'll get purple to low you will get whiteish on new leaves, k Mg etc to balance for time of grow, I would do micro's separate because I'd want to set Fe, Mn B etc individually. I'd then lab test my solution to see if the individual PPM and ratio's are mixing to what I wanted.

The only way from there to see if the plants are getting it in there optimal ratio's is tissue sampling, either every week or every other week, that will tell me exactly what my plant has in it, and what I need to adjust in my formula, I'd do one for veg and one for flower. as long as your grow environment, lighting media etc stays the same it will be good. fulvic, silica etc will all be foliar spray.

depending on the scale i'm not sure i'd spend thousands on a pens to tell me whats in my solution, I can get lab tests done for 40 buck i'd go that way but you may not have that option
edit I took a better look at those pens and they do, do tissue as well , if they are accurate and will last a long time maybe but there a lot of money, again depends the need and scale, the balance for me is lab testing can be done cheap. I don't know what the cost would be where your at
 
Last edited:
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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The first thing people (New Growers) need to understand is that all these bottle nutes etc Jacks , HGV Athena are really one size fits all, and you the grower do not dictate how your plants like there food and the ratio's they eat it at, that is set by many other factors lighting intensity, LED vs HPS temps RH, rate of water uptake etc etc, so when using these products they will works differently for everyone, so your really trying to find the point that it works best for you, and that will mean different EC etc for everyone, but its so, that different ratio's will require a high EC to get proper uptake IE. HGV Athena

@Aqua Man I have never used those so I'm not sure there accuracy or how good they are.

If I was going to build a solution that had to be spot on for my setup there is really only one way I know how to do it, and thats water analysis and tissue samples, I'd start by setting my N to the amount of light temps ,C02 etc then set the ratio of Ca off that, a little under or over N ,if over you will most like not see N tox, to much Ca you'll get purple to low you will get whiteish on new leaves, k Mg etc to balance for time of grow, I would do micro's separate because I'd want to set Fe, Mn B etc individually. I'd then lab test my solution to see if the individual PPM and ratio's are mixing to what I wanted.

The only way from there to see if the plants are getting it in there optimal ratio's is tissue sampling, either every week or every other week, that will tell me exactly what my plant has in it, and what I need to adjust in my formula, I'd do one for veg and one for flower. as long as your grow environment, lighting media etc stays the same it will be good. fulvic, silica etc will all be foliar spray.

depending on the scale i'm not sure i'd spend thousands on a pens to tell me whats in my solution, I can get lab tests done for 40 buck i'd go that way but you may not have that option
edit I took a better look at those pens and they do, do tissue as well , if they are accurate and will last a long time maybe but there a lot of money, again depends the need and scale, the balance for me is lab testing can be done cheap. I don't know what the cost would be where your at
Yeah that’s exactly how i see it… also see cal mag being over used alot. Light and VPD will dictate uptake for the most part but balacing ratios will definitely affect that. And the more intense the light the more it will effect the ratios of uptake of nutrients and the ratios desired not only from intensity but also spectrum.

I do believe that more information needs to be looked at especially in the area of high intensity and spectrum of light and its relationship to nutrients. Being such a money hungry market im suprised that someone nutrient company has not yet capitalized on doing studies and tailoring ratios for plants under intense light. Maybe thats asking to much? Idk just surprised at the marketing side of then not atleast exploit that
 

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