Whats wrong with these leaves?

true grit · Jun 5, 2012

Hey folks, been messing around with a few new things lately in teh garden but this isn't the first time i've had this issue in veg.

a few bits of info-
coco medium
sensi ab nutes, calplex, drip clean, kelp up until about 4-5 days ago.

went out of town for a week, believe things got over watered. 2 of my beast amnesias that were showing a bit too much N were started doing this while i was gone and are now completely fried.

the plants show this on a few fan leaves, mostly the ones in direct light and sometimes continues until plant is crispy.

i have tried a new foliar, but the plants that fried did not even get the foliar so i kinda ruled that out.

Since returning the plants are on a new organic regimen with Bio Bizz, all tops look great and healthy so wondering if it was trickle down from being gone, either way I'd like to find the cause. it was happening to white urk mom as well, but i pulled all shit leaves hit her hard with the organics and shes doing fine with no continuing signs. hmm.

My opinions-
a. kinda looks like mag/cal def- but really doubt thats it
b. overwatering over saturated the media and left a build up of salts/ph flux thats causing sensitivity.

any thoughts are welcome, would love to figure this out and can't lose any for the next round. thanks! can def snag a few more pix if need be.

Chobble · Jun 6, 2012

Looks like some nute burn with a little heat/RH stress. Whats the RH and temps :?

Chobble

Seamaiden · Jun 6, 2012

I would like to see pix of the whole plant, that just helps give me a better general idea of what may or may not be playing well. I can tell you what I see, though.

First, definitely N+, as indicated by the dark green coloration to the leaf.

Reddened petiole may indicate P- or N-, dark green color disallows N-. This is where it begins to get a little tricky for me so I keep referring to a couple of charts, including the Mulder mineral interaction chart, because I need those visuals as well.

Burned leaf margins, IF they start out as interveinal chlorosis that progresses, usually indicates Mg-. I see nothing from what you've depicted that would indicate a Ca- at all. But! Again here's where it may get tricky--those burned leaf margins, if not starting out yellow and progressing to necrotic, may be indicative of a K-, though there is something else about its appearance that isn't suggesting K- for me, but instead P-. I'll have to look at the mineral interaction chart again, I can't remember if P plays directly with K or not. I know it plays with Mg and Ca directly, which again is suggesting at least an imbalance of K and P, if nothing else.

I also see the very slightest beginning of a curled leaf tip on one of the leaf lobes, which again may suggest a K- or P-. I'm kind of leaning toward a P/K issue at this point. Because of the dark green color, I am also leaning toward it just being overfed overall, which has likely caused a lock-out.

Let me link a helpful page from Plant Physiology Online.

Plant Physiology Online: Symptoms of Deficiency in Essential Minerals

true grit · Jun 6, 2012

Chobble said:
Looks like some nute burn with a little heat/RH stress. Whats the RH and temps :?

Chobble

Yeah thinking this is right on. Been getting hot here lately and actually had to turn down the T-5's the other day. I really do think this problem only happens after over watering or excessive dry out adding sensitivity, just cant figure the direct correlation. Baba was talking about tops getting sensitive burning from excessive dry out as well. and tbh, prob have been less then on point with rh, been fluctuating around 10% of late- as in between 45-55%...10% shift in rh.

Seamaiden- thank you for your input and link for sure! I didn't bother posting the whole plant because it looks perfectly fine. This happened on a few leaves and figured i'd ask. Already appears to have stopped.

The lighter green is actually the problem, and the plants were actually getting a bit N deficient from the nutrient switch. the only ones with too much N were the sensitive hazes. Think the pic may be decieving ya a bit. The overall health of the plants is fine if not a bit underfed due to organics and trying to figure out a way to maximize uptake- which hopefully some good humic/LK will help with. For some reason, just always have issues getting the right uptake with organics in straight coco. In bloom, no issue but veg be a pain sometimes!

waayne · Jun 6, 2012

It looks like a combination of things to me TG..........

It looks like she got too dry and then was overwatered:eek:
The room being a little warm with the low RH is also exacerbating your problems with her.........
I would suggest lowering that veg room temp to the mid 70's and cranking up the humidifier until your room is 50%- 60% RH

A hot, dry, veg room almost always causes problems for me.........

Good Luck homie!

true grit · Jun 6, 2012

Yeah thats what happens when ya go on vacay and come back to play catch up :mad: . Sadly my ac is out so the whole shabang has been running around 82 degrees (but has hit 84 or so several days back...ala problems). I really don't have issues with the temp being that high, but do need to get the rh up- its not bad its in the mid 40-50 range just been fluctuating (which is teh real issue) due to having to bring in constant air to control temps. My bad, i should clarify my last post- not at 10%rh but a 10% shift in rh (from 45-55%)...which to me is too much of a shift when pushing temps etc.

Thanks folks, seems pretty simple solution- sometimes I just need someone to kick start the ol brain and make me start breaking down the obvious! But does look like it was just a temporary issue, doesn't seem to be doing it anymore but should prob raise the lights up just in case til temps are under control.

Chobble · Jun 7, 2012

I just water like a slob when my RH is fine, It'll bump it up for a day. Thats just me though.. Also 82 degrees is fine as long as you have some fans blowing on your ladies.

As long as there's plenty of Airflow, the plant has a harder time burning and shriveling up. Also if a 10% RH shift is bad then I'm fucked.

Leaving an open bucket of water near the light also helps raise RH.

Chobble

true grit · Jun 7, 2012

Yeah I prefer less than a 10% shift in rh and temps on the reggie, but due to ac being out its been fucking with me. Now that the girls are getting used to the organic i really do think it was an over/under saturation which led to sensitivity to the heat.

Yeah i usually run bloom rooms around 80-82 all day with awesome results. Have huey an de-hueys just having to pump hella fresh air of late....just need to get these plants through their saltiness and get em pumpin. lol.

true grit · Jun 9, 2012

A lil feedback... with regular/adequate watering, organic switch and lights about 2-4" higher...none of the symptoms have continued....think the salt build up/ph change made em a good bit more sensitive to the heat/lights. Thanks folks! Gettin these organic def fixed and rollin...

Wavegem · Jun 9, 2012

I could be wrong but I am having similar issues and through the research I have done I believe it is a salt build up which caused a deficiency in K. Also to much ammonium nitrogen can displace K from what I read. Mg follows K deficiency which would explain your initial reaction. Anybody please confirm this I am trying to learn too. I am fixing mine with flush and foliar spray protekt

true grit · Jun 11, 2012

Yeah from pix on the "complete guide" thats what i was under the impression of as well, K or Mg/cal...but sadly upon inspection of some other plants that are having issues I'm thinking it may just be root aphids causing me some phantom deficiencies. Boo.

DowNwithDirT · Jun 11, 2012

oh bummer....

true grit · Jun 11, 2012

Yeah no bueno. Time to put em to death and get things back on track.

Aerojoe · Jun 11, 2012

true grit said:
Yeah from pix on the "complete guide" thats what i was under the impression of as well, K or Mg/cal...but sadly upon inspection of some other plants that are having issues I'm thinking it may just be root aphids causing me some phantom deficiencies. Boo.

You should make sure you have RA before you do anything too drastic, you can usually see them in the run off water floating and jumping because of the water. I think only ones that can't be seen by naked eye are rust/russet mites.

true grit said:
Yeah no bueno. Time to put em to death and get things back on track.

If you do have RA then I understand, but if not then I don't think you should kill off your plants cause the leaf really doesn't look that bad imo.

tedsprogz · Jun 11, 2012

water with 135 F water to kill aphids

Chobble · Jun 11, 2012

tedsprogz said:
water with 135 F water to kill aphids

If only it was that easy. I proved that myth wrong like 3 months ago. Most Root Aphids are not affected by hot water. It'll also killed the clone I was testing it on. Root Aphids are about the most annoying bug out there...

Chobble

DowNwithDirT · Jun 11, 2012

Chobble said:
If only it was that easy. I proved that myth wrong like 3 months ago. Most Root Aphids are not affected by hot water. It'll also killed the clone I was testing it on. Root Aphids are about the most annoying bug out there...

Chobble

like wise....nearly murked everything I own!!!

hot water might work for a perfectly healthy plant but if your seeing problems already then I wouldn't do that.

true grit · Jun 11, 2012

Aerojoe said:
You should make sure you have RA before you do anything too drastic, you can usually see them in the run off water floating and jumping because of the water. I think only ones that can't be seen by naked eye are rust/russet mites.

If you do have RA then I understand, but if not then I don't think you should kill off your plants cause the leaf really doesn't look that bad imo.

Yeah i've had em before, know the symptoms, and can see them in the coco of the sick plants. And no worries none of these plants are getting killed, I plan on only killing the mites! Bayer has worked fine for me before, and they are not colonized enough to have winged counterparts yet. This also explains why I started get symptoms after too heavy of watering. Appears only a few have em so bayer should take care of the rest and ill get some cap bennies soon.

tedsprogz said:
water with 135 F water to kill aphids

Not to sure I wanna go that route. Plants are still healthy enough that I don't wanna cook roots yet.

Chobble said:
If only it was that easy. I proved that myth wrong like 3 months ago. Most Root Aphids are not affected by hot water. It'll also killed the clone I was testing it on. Root Aphids are about the most annoying bug out there...

Chobble

Agreed, used Bayer with success a couple times already and hopefully caught it early enough this run.

tedsprogz · Jun 13, 2012

My neighbor gets root aphids every year and this year we used hot water when his solo cups got em (after reading cap's thread) and we watched them fall out of the rootball...dead.

tedsprogz · Jun 13, 2012

I'm not saying they won't come back(his conditions suck and i doubt the hot water has an preventative qualities.)

Whats wrong with these leaves?

Whats wrong with these leaves?

true grit

Chobble

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

true grit

waayne

true grit

Chobble

true grit

true grit

Wavegem

true grit

DowNwithDirT

true grit

Aerojoe

tedsprogz

Chobble

DowNwithDirT

true grit

tedsprogz

tedsprogz

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