Wow. Great post OneSpark. Its a mind bender to watch these things explode as they have.

Sea: I also had them explode in perlite in flood tables w ebb/flow set up. I use the white bags, Supreme I believe. I agree they didn't come in the perlite. Mine came in a Blue Dream cut that was rooted in rockwool and put in a one gallon of soil. Not sure of the soil brand. I caught the infestation in the flower room, traced to veg room. I found the RA's at the epicenter w fliers present (Blue Dream). The plants closest all had symptoms. I cut her and her neighbors up for the few cuttings I could get and dissected her roots. Found the wax and the little shits.
Any way they go ape shit in perlite. Its sickening watching it because of the contrast it is very easy to see their numbers and devastation caused.

I might be a hard head, but, these things are currently being spread by cannaman. Our species.

Thanks Onespark for this thread and all of the research you clearly have done on our behalf. And thanks to max_well for posting link to this thread.
So how do we get the Met 52 up here in MT?

Hi Onespark. I cant pm you because I am new here. I really need something for aphids. Please let me know if you can help me out. I would really appreciate it.

Thanks!

I am seeing more and more clones at mmcs with RA. They have no idea what they are.

altimood said:

:confused0054:

All i can say is I'm going to continue to waste my time and money and actually USE it and you can continue to READ ABOUT IT. Meanwhile, I think we can both agree that while young minds are impressionable, they ARE QUITE CAPABLE OF MAKING THEIR OWN EDUCATED DECISIONS. 'Nuff said.:evilgrin0040: Except that the learning is not even close to being done in this thread TH.:evilgrin0040: I can't wait for week six.:)LMMFAO!!!

Click to expand...

Do you have any facts to go along with your bravura, or are the smiley faces the limit of your wit?

DoobyScoo said:

If you want to save the children,
How's bout cutting and pasting that info dealing with the toxicity?
Or linking it?

Dat be mos def positively recepted.
Danka.

Click to expand...

Maxwell posted all those links on the previous page, i read them and posted my observations, don't ask me to post a dissertation to cover your laziness. Really, facts mean nothing to you people if they are inconvenient, costly, or invoke any work whatsoever...

eyecandi said:

agreed. we are trying to help determine if this product is effective and safe or not. if you found something relevant, post it. don't just do a drive by with information blanks.

Click to expand...

I did find something relevant, and i posted it. That is not a blank. The blank here is that nobody else wants to read, nobody else wants the facts, nobody else wants the inconvenient truth.
What everyone does want, is an easy answer, a simple solution, and nothing more complicated than 5th grade math.
I'm not here to post on your schedule, with footnotes and pronunciations included. If you don't like my answers, do the work and dispute the work, instead of just shooting the messenger. sheesh!

I suggest smoking a little cannabis Treehugger. Its wonderful for calming nerves. And, you're still shooting blanks.:makeup Peace from the land of the brave. LMMFAO! Damn bro. You're killing me with all the pent up anger. What's up bro? Did you run out of bud? Hit the dispensary man! Sorry for tweaking your circuits Treehugger. You just bring the negative energy is all. We're just out here trying to survive. What's your motivation? You're always out hear worrying about impressionable minds. I'm worried about you TH. Lighten up champ. It's weird that you're so anti-us doing this experiment in such an angry way.

Onespark said:

I killed them with triazicide and I hit them with IMID. They come back in a few weeks everytime. I am going to harvest my crop treated with MET.

Click to expand...

So, they came back after treatment with Imid and triazicide because neither of those methods have 100% kill rates. That means if you expect the MET to work on your garden for the full three month life cycle it must have a 100% kill ratio. Is that what you are saying? Is that what you are promoting?

I did not see that claim in the manufacturers literature, nor did i see it in any of the links posted in this thread, or in any of my independent research. Did i miss this somewhere, or do you just have an incomplete understanding of what is necessary to control insect populations to the extent we find required?

I posted the reported kill ratio's, and i posted the tested persistence percentages, and they do not add up to complete control. I am not saying it doesn't work at all. I am not saying it doesn't persist in the soil for 9 months or more. I am saying that if you think this is the one-all-solution to the RA problem, you are sorely mistaken.

Treehugger can post anger and discontent for the lazy, just can't post a link. Whatever dude. We got it.

altimood said:

I suggest smoking a little cannabis Treehugger. Its wonderful for calming nerves. And, you're still shooting blanks.:makeup Peace from the land of the brave. LMMFAO! Damn bro. You're killing me with all the pent up anger. What's up bro? Did you run out of bud? Hit the dispensary man! Sorry for tweaking your circuits Treehugger. You just bring the negative energy is all. We're just out here trying to survive. What's your motivation. You're always out hear worrying about impressionable minds. I worried about you TH. Lighten up champ.

Click to expand...

Yes, once again you post your little dance around the fact that you got nothing. No facts, no brains, i certainly hope you've got looks to fall back on...

altimood said:

Treehugger can post anger and discontent for the lazy, just can't post a link. Whatever dude. We got it.

Click to expand...

that's amazing, you can type, but not read...

the links are all in the thread!

haha, good call sir. I did read the MSDS a couple times and admit I missed a little in there, but was searching for other studies and research for more information.

Met52® Granular Bioinsecticide
2. Composition:
Component CAS Number %(w/w)
Metarhizium anisopliae on rice carrier Not Available 100%

Emergency Overview:
Individuals allergic to molds and/or fungi should avoid using this product. If use by allergic individuals is
unavoidable, absorption by eye or skin contact, inhalation, or ingestion must be prevented to minimize
the chance of allergic reaction.

3. Hazard Identification:
Potential Health Effects:
Eyes: Dust may cause mild eye irritation.
Skin Contact: Prolonged contact could cause mild skin
irritation.
Skin Absorption: A single prolonged exposure is not
likely to result in this material being absorbed in harmful
amounts. Do not expose open cuts or wounds to this
product.
Ingestion: Small amounts swallowed incidental to
industrial handling are not likely to cause injury.
Ingestion of larger amounts may cause stomach
discomfort or pain.
Inhalation: Prolonged or repeated exposure may
cause injury to the respiratory tract.
Chronic Effects: Not a likely hazard.
Acute effects: Not a likely hazard.
Cancer: Not a likely hazard.
Birth Defects: Not available.
Reproductive Effects: Not available.
Mutagenic Effects: Not available.
4. First Aid Measures:
Eyes: Hold open eye and rinse slowly and gently with
water for 15-20 minutes. Remove contact lenses, if
present, after the first 5 minutes, then continue rinsing
eye. If irritation develops, get medical attention.
Skin: Take off contaminated clothing. Rinse skin
immediately with plenty of water for 15-20 minutes. If
irritation develops, get medical attention.
Ingestion: Do not induce vomiting unless instructed to
do so by qualified medical personnel. If individual is
conscious, give them plenty of water to drink. Call a
poison control center or doctor immediately for
treatment advice.
Inhalation: Move individual to fresh air. Encourage
coughing. Get medical attention if breathing difficulty
develops.Note to physician: Employ supportive care. Treatment
should be based on the judgment of the physician in
response to reactions of the patient.

5. Fire-Fighting Measures:
removed

6. Accidental Release Measures:
Sweep up the spill and store in a suitable container until
proper disposal can be arranged. Wear appropriate
protective equipment.

7. Handling and Storage:
Store any unused product in original unopened
containers at temperatures below 4oC away from
sunlight, drafts, and direct heat sources. Practice
reasonable caution to avoid contact with this product.
Avoid breathing dusts and mists if generated. Users
should wash thoroughly after using this product. Keep
out of reach of children. Do not ship or store this
product with food, feed, drugs or clothing.

8. Exposure Controls, Personal
Protection and Exposure Limits:
Metarhizium anisopliae: Not available.
Engineering Controls: Good ventilation is required.
Avoid generating aerosols during handling.
Breathing: Users must wear an approved dust-mist
filtering respirator/mask (MSHA/NIOSH approval
number prefix TC-21C) or a NIOSH approved
respirator/mask with any N-95, R-95, P-95 or HE filter.
Protective Clothing: All handlers must wear long
sleeved shirt and long pants, waterproof gloves, shoes,
socks, eye goggles and a dust-mist filtering
respirator/mask.
Eyes: Wear goggles, glassed with side shields or a
face shield when handling this product.
Other Protection: None specified.

9. Physical and Chemical Properties:
Boiling Point: Not applicable.
Vapour Pressure: Not applicable.
Volatility: Not applicable.
Appearance: Green colored solid.
Odour: Musty at 21 oC
Specific Gravity: Not applicable.
Solubility in Water: Suspends in water.
Freezing Point: 0oC (32ºF).
Physical State: Solid.
Bulk Density: 0.237 g/mL at 20 oC ±2 oC
Specific Gravity: Not applicable.

10. Stability and Reactivity:
Incompatibility: Acids, bases, oxidizers, reducers,
disinfectants, fungicides, and/or biocides may
inactivate.
Hazardous Decomposition Products: None known.
Hazardous Polymerization: Does not occur.

11. Toxicological Information:
Acute Oral Toxicity: Product demonstrated very low
acute oral toxicity and a complete lack of pathogenicity.
Acute Dermal Toxicity: LC50 > 2g/kg.
Acute Inhalation Toxicity: No pulmonary toxicity or
pathogenicity noted.
Eye Irritation: Mild to moderate eye irritation may
result from exposure.
Skin Irritation: Mild skin irritation may result from
exposure.
Skin Sensitization: No sensitization noted.
Carcinogenicity: Not listed as a carcinogen by PMRA,
EPA, OSHA
12. Ecological Information:
Toxicity to Bees: No signs of toxicity or pathogenicity.
Toxicity to Fish: 30 day LC50 is > 53mg/L (trout)
21 day EC50 is 17mg/L. The NOEC is 5.0mg/L.
Toxicity to Birds: No signs of toxicity or pathogenicity.

13. Disposal Considerations:
Dispose of in accordance with local regulations.
14. Transportation Information:
Material should be properly labeled for transport. This
item is not regulated as a hazardous material for all
modes of transportation within the U.S. and Canada.
15. Regulatory Information:
This product has been classified in accordance with the
hazard criteria of the Controlled Products Regulations
and the MSDS contains all of the information required
by the Controlled Products Regulations.
FIFRA: This product is regulated by the US
Environmental Protection Agency under the Federal
Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) and
its Amendments.
PMRA: This product is registered with the Pest
Management Regulatory Agency (PMRA).
Master Reference: On File.
MSDS Status: New MSDS.
16. Other Information:
Prepared by: D. Thome
This information may not be adequate for every
application and therefore it is up to the user to
determine the suitability of this information based on
conditions of use, storage or local regulations.

-----------------------------------------------------------

so, it looks like I'll need to up the respirator style. I have a pretty high airflow with multiple filters (partially to contain spores from spreading from other fungi and any stray pollen), so feel fairly confident that standard air is Ok ... but i'll have it tested anyways (might as well, haven't done one for the space yet anyways). each time I've used it has been in a sealed room mixing soil (one bout in the flower room) with my full gear on (suit + resp + goggles) as well, S.O.P. for playing with pesticides and such. Toxicology indicates a few potentials, but nothing specific (hence the need for further research, but not finding much yet) and not enough for me to really worry about (yet). it's a 'choose your poison' game and right now this looks as safe (or safer) then most/all of the other options. I still have an open mind in this and researching .... I've spent probably over 20 hours reading different articles, journals and papers so far ... I don't want easy answers, I want real ones with facts and research backing them up.

lets peak at pyquid 5% pyganic .... it's just as much fun.
------------------------------------------------------------------
PRODUCT NAME: PyGanic® Crop Protection EC 5.0 ii
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION: An Insecticide for Organic Crop Protection

2. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
EMERGENCY OVERVIEW
IMMEDIATE CONCERNS: CAUTION. Harmful if swallowed or absorbed through the skin. Causes moderate eye
irritation. Prolonged or frequently repeated skin contact may cause allergic reactions in some individuals. Avoid
contact with skin, eyes, and clothing.
Applicators and other handlers must wear: Coveralls over a short-sleeved shirt and short pants. Chemical-resistant
gloves, such as, Barrier Laminate, Nitrile Rubber, Neoprene Rubber, or Viton. Chemical-resistant footwear plus
socks. Chemical-resistant headgear for overhead exposure. A chemical-resistant apron when cleaning equipment,
mixing, or loading.
POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS
EYES: Causes moderate eye irritation.
SKIN: Can cause skin irritation. Can cause a burning or prickling sensation on more sensitive areas (face, eyes,
mouth). Prolonged or frequently repeated skin contact may cause allergic reactions in some individuals.
SKIN ABSORPTION: Harmful if absorbed through the skin.
INGESTION: Harmful if swallowed.
INHALATION: Excessive inhalation may be irritating to the respiratory tract.
SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF OVEREXPOSURE
CHRONIC EFFECTS: None known.
COMMENTS: This material is considered hazardous by the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR
1910.1200).

8. EXPOSURE CONTROLS / PERSONAL PROTECTION
ENGINEERING CONTROLS: Ventilate treatment area thoroughly before re-entry.
PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT
EYES AND FACE: Take prudent precautions to avoid contact with eyes. Wear chemical-resistant headgear for
overhead exposure.
SKIN: Wear chemical-resistant gloves such as Barrier Laminate, Neoprene Rubber, Nitrile Rubber, or Viton, and wear
protective clothing.
PROTECTIVE CLOTHING: Wear coveralls over a short-sleeved shirt and short pants. Wear chemical-resistant
footwear plus socks. Wear a chemical-resistant apron when cleaning equipment, mixing, or loading.
WORK HYGIENIC PRACTICES: DO NOT SMOKE, EAT, OR DRINK, OR APPLY COSMETICS IN WORK AREA!
Wash promptly if skin becomes contaminated. Wash at the end of each work shift and before eating, smoking, or using
the toilet.
OTHER USE PRECAUTIONS: AGRICULTURAL USE REQUIREMENTS:
Use this product only in accordance with its labeling and with the Woker Protection Standard, 40 CFR, Part 170. This
Standard contains requirements for the protection of agricultural workers on farms, forests, nurseries, and
greenhouses, and handlers of agricultural pesticides. It contains requirements for training, decontamination,
notification, and emergency assistance. It also contains specific instructions and exceptions pertaining to the
statements on the label about personal protective equipment (PPE), and restricted-entry interval. The requirements
listed below only apply to uses of this product that are covered by the Worker Protection Standard.
Do not enter or allow worker entry into treated areas during the restricted entry interval (REI) of 12 hours.
PPE required for early entry to treated areas that is permitted under Worker Protection Standard and that involves
contact with anything that has been treated, such as plants, soil, or water, is:
Coveralls over a short-sleeved shirt and short pants;
Chemical-resistant gloves, such as Barrier Laminate, Nitrile Rubber, Neoprene Rubber, or Viton;
Chemical-resistant footwear plus socks; and Chemical-resistant headgear for overhead exposure.
COMMENTS: NON-AGRICULTURAL USE REQUIREMENTS:
The requirements in this section apply to uses of this product that are NOT within the scope of the Worker Protection
Standard for agricultural pesticides (40 CFR, Part 170). The WPS applies when this product is used to produce
agricultural plants on farms, forests, nurseries, or greenhouses.
Keep unprotected persons out of treated areas until sprays have dried.
Page 3 of 7
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Date Issued: 02/20/2007
MSDS No: 007444A
Date-Revised: 02/03/2010
Revision No: 3
PyGanic® Crop Protection EC 5.0 ii
Wear protective clothing when using or handling this product to help avoid exposure to eyes and skin. Eye protection,
gloves, a long-sleeved shirt and long-pants are recommended.
Allow spray to dry before allowing adults, children, or pets on treated areas.
For any requirements specific to your State or Tribe, consult the agency responsible for pesticide regulation.

11. TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
ACUTE
DERMAL LD50: > 2000 mg/kg
Notes: Albino rabbit.
ORAL LD50: > 2000 mg/kg
Notes: Albino rat.
INHALATION LC50: The Acute Inhalation LC50 of this material places it in EPA Toxic Category IV.
EYE EFFECTS: Irritation clearing within 48 hours.
SKIN EFFECTS: Slight irritation at 72 hours. Primary Irritation Index = 1.3.
SENSITIZATION: Positive
COMMENTS: None of the components present in this material at concentrations equal to or greater than 0.1% are listed
by IARC, NTP, OSHA or ACGIH as being carcinogens.
Carcinogenicity/ Oncogenicity - Slightly elevated incidences of benign tumors of the thyroid and liver were seen in rats
following lifetime administration of high doses of Pyrethrins. Further detailed scientific studies into the mode of action responsible for these effects show that:
1) Because of biological species differences, the rat thyroid tumors are not relevant to humans.
2) The rat liver tumors occur in animals only at doses greatly exceeding human exposure levels and that cause cell
proliferation (mitogenesis).
Based on these data, the USEPA has classified Pyrethrins as "Not Likely to be Carcinogenic to Humans," at doses that
do not cause a mitogenic response in the liver/ cell proliferation. Thus, Pyrethrins can be considered to be noncarcinogenic
at exposure levels relevant to human use of Pyrethrins-containing products.
12. ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
ECOTOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION: This pesticide is highly toxic to fish. For terrestrial uses, do not apply directly to
water, or to areas where surface water is present, or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark. Drift from
treated areas may be hazardous to organisms in adjacent aquatic sites. Do not contaminate water when disposing of
equipment washwaters. Do not discharge effluent containing this product into lakes, streams, ponds, estuaries, oceans
or other waters, unless in accordance with the requirements of a National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System
(NPDES) permit and the permitting authority has been notified in writing prior to discharge. Do not discharge effluent
containing this product into sewer systems without previously notifying the local sewage treatment plant authority. For
guidance, contact your State Water Board or Regional Office of the EPA.

yes, and just when you thought it was safe to stand in front of the fans:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43358247/ns/health-infectious_diseases/

Where is the quote that this is an all in one solution? We've all said we're continuing to use other controls. You need to review this thread TH. Nobody EVER claimed this was an all in one solution. What's the deal? You're pissed because there is good results from three testers? How should we format this to appease you?

treehugger said:

yes, and just when you thought it was safe to stand in front of the fans:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43358247/ns/health-infectious_diseases/

Click to expand...

? Met isn't a rare fungus. I know I don't got the smarts real good like you TH, but I didn't see Met identified in that prolific article.

altimood said:

? Met isn't a rare fungus. I know I don't got the smarts real good like you TH, but I didn't see Met identified in that prolific article.

Click to expand...

Yes, and you show that off with each and every post you make. I'm sure everyone here appreciates the rumor, fancy and second-hand information you like to spread around as growing 101.

I really miss the old days when bandwidth was a precious commodity, and wasters like you were ostracized from the boards by those who knew better... Now you know-nothings sit back and post the garbage till your hearts are content.

Wasters? Know nothings? Ostriches? Must have struck a nerve. Well, this has been fun. Need to go to bed now. Had a long day of mindless, yet physically challenging work.
Damn, I thought root aphids were nasty...

wow, for a sec I thought TH might be semi serious. so you really think the velocity created by your fans has enough force to cause penetration of the skin? you amuse me. this know-nothing will now go to bed and think of new garbage to post tomorrow. I'll try for something really bad next time where you can find and post better science to back up your thoughts.

eyecandi said:

wow, for a sec I thought TH might be semi serious. so you really think the velocity created by your fans has enough force to cause penetration of the skin? you amuse me. this know-nothing will now go to bed and think of new garbage to post tomorrow. I'll try for something really bad next time where you can find and post better science to back up your thoughts.

Click to expand...

I was actually thinking along similar lines. After I read the article, I was thinking, could there be a more clear cut case of "opportunistic infection"? It took hold on people who had cuts and other injuries and were already sick.

Then I thought about MMJ patients and how a lot of them have compromised immune systems and thought maybe TH has a point. A couple of ways to look at this. I think we need more research on all the products we use and how they affect humans specifically when ingested, inhaled whatever.

Never seen root aphids is this only a hydro grow problem!?